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Old 14th January 2010, 10:45   #1
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Question Safari Stolen.... Now what?

Dear All,

My Safari 2.2L (LX) was stolen in June last year and for the last 6 months have been driving my Indica. I am now planning to pick up another car once the insurance claim gets cleared (hopefully within the next two weeks).

Being a complete SUV freak (had the 3L Dicor for over two and a half years which I sold to buy the 2.2L in Oct 2007), I had to convince the Home Minister (read as wife!!!) as why we should not buy the Honda City... although I must admit that for a few days I too felt she was right (for a change!) and I did consider the option to buy a car rather than an SUV. I wondered whether it is worthwhile again to go through all the small niggling issues of a Safari or buy a "no nonsense" car (Honda City) but then I realized that I would be trading the "king of the road" for some peace of mind!!!!

Ok enough of the background and now getting to the main question here….. guys, while my heart is set on the Safari LX again (could go in for EX/ GX if am able to extend the budget) the Scorpio too does seem to be a worthy contender (also my wife prefers it over the safari now).

Having owned 2 Safaris my observations are as under

Positives:
  • Looks:Although subjective, i like the road presence of the Safari over the Scorpio
  • Space: Unbeatable
  • Power:Very good
Negatives:
  • My 3L had huge issues: check engine light used to come on quite frequently and the power would suddenly drop.... this was the main reason for me sell it and buy the 2.2.... the 2.2 did not have such problems
  • Small Niggling issues: power windows, fuel lid, creaking seats etc etc but was OK living with them!
  • Interiors: Use of cheap plastics but again the feel/ fun of driving the Safari was enough for me neglect all the negatives it had!
  • Jump Seats: Utterly useless for adults
I have not driven the Scorpio apart from a few test drives and my observations are as under:
  • Looks: as mentioned above, Safari looks better but the Scorpio is not bad either especially the Refresh version
  • FE: Have heard that the FE on the Scorpio is better than the Safari although the difference might just be marginal.... the safari (2,2L) gave me 10kmpl in the city....
  • Space:This is the major pain area for me..... I feel the Scorpio is too cramped or may be I am used to the extra space on the Safari.... even the driver's seat on the Scorpio seems claustrophobic when compared to the safari let alone the second row..... but then the jump seats are way better than the Safari and moreover with last row (8 seater) as a bench seat, the Scorpio would accommodate more people.
  • Interiors: The fit and finish is way better than the Safari
  • Power: Seems good but I guess the Safari could outrun the Scorpio (atleast the specs on paper seem to suggest that)
  • Immobilizer: A Very Very Very Important factor tilting my head towards the Scorpio is the Immobilizer while my heart is still set on the safari (if you guys remember from the first line... my 2.2L Safari was stolen last year
  • Gizmos: the higher end variants seem to be giving a lot of gizmos… most of them though are not that useful in my opinion but nevertheless they are still there!
  • Maintenance Cost:Have heard the maintenance cost of the Scorpio is lower than the Safari
I am sure that there are members here who have either owned both safari and scorpio or have extensively driven both the vehicles. I request you to please give your suggestions as what would be the better buy for me given the above information. Also please let me know if any of my above observations are inaccurate.

Another suggestion..... let's not get carried away by emotions/ passions and make it a slugfest and kill each other over why one SUV is better than the other..... both of them are exceptional in their own ways and have their equal number of problems.

This post is for the valued members to advise me as to what i should be buyng as I am utterly confused.... also which variant and whether it makes sense to stretch the budget for a variant higher that the base on either the Safari/ Scorpio.

Thank you very much...
Ankit
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Old 14th January 2010, 12:27   #2
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1.Atleast the Safari EX comes with an immobilizer. I guess if LX does not have that, you could get it fitted at any TASS(OEM part). Secondly, its best to add a visible theft detterent like a gear lock.
2. Performance : Having driven both, there is not much difference. The Scorpio is actually better at the low revs, and the mHawk 2.2 engine is miles ahead in refinement. The clutch of scorpio is also smoother
3. Safari may have issues and niggles, but with 4 years warranty, the cost of maintenance for first 50K kms will come to about 50p/km. From what I have seen in scorpio ownership threads, the cost of servicing(regular) over 40,000kms exceeds that of the Safari.
For example, at 35000kms, my cost/km excluding tires(TASS costs) comes to 52p/km
This includes two unscheduled expenses
1. 3200 for unnecessary service at 7500kms
2. 3500 for bush replacement after ladakh trip

If you are looking at peace of mind cost, scorpio may turn out cheaper. From the ownership threads, the scorpio owners seem to have much lower problems than safari owners, though cost of ownership for scorpio seems to be more during "in warranty".

So in the end its entirey your call. You have the option of uber reliable honda city, but your heart does not agree. So scorpio vs safari is another such decision. Decide, whether you are willing to live with the niggles of the safari or not!
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Old 14th January 2010, 12:34   #3
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Yes, get an Immobilizer fitted even before you take any vehcile out of the showroom, Safari 's OEM is Minda, contact them and they reply promptly.
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Old 14th January 2010, 12:50   #4
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The new Scorpio comes with an automatic transmission and you could also opt for a 4WD. The Scorp's maneuverability in the city is better and it also has a shorter turning radius as compared to the Safari. With the safari you have to reverse in order to make that U-Turn. Though the Safari has other advantages the Scorpio is more agile and easy to handle in the city. Comparatively easier for your wife to drive as well if you get an AT. I had the same dillemma when I wanted to buy a car but I finally bought the Scorpio and love it.
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Old 14th January 2010, 13:13   #5
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I have a Scorpio 2006 SLX & before I bought that I had the same querry, at that point of time none of the 2.2 litre of Safari or Scorpio was launched. I can vouch for my 80K kms & 3 years of experience with Scorpio that there has been not a single event which I would say was sudden. Regular service & extended warranty is all what I have. I have Scorpio still same as Stock. No issues what so ever with any other thing. I vouch with my friends that I can get up at 2 am & start a 2000kms road trip any day with out thinking twice that is the kind of confidence it inspires.

Yes there are a few down sides, it is not a car for driver, but who keeps a driver for a bull. It is a bit cramped on 3rd seat but how many times you have people & for how much duration on 3rd seat.

What I find best is that Mahindra is taking serious steps (which have showed results ) in improve their A.S.S.

I always sugges everyone go for a car but take its top model to enjoy it fully & I will suggest you the same. Dont stretch your budget buy Scorpio & buy Mhawk VLX 2.2. You will have both "PEACE OF MIND" & "KING OF ROAD".

PS : I have covered almost entire north india including many trips to J&K in my 80K kims
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Old 14th January 2010, 15:07   #6
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Thanks tsk1979, dadu,wolfheart & samtheleo for such a quick revert.

@tsk1979 & @dadu: While my LX which was stolen did not have a gear lock/ other visible deterent.... this time around I am sure
going to add as many anti-theft systems as possible so that such a thing would hopefully not happen again. In my opinion the
immobilizer that comes fitted with the Scorpio might work better than what comes with the Safari EX as the one in the Scorpio has
an encrypted chip in the key and if a duplicate key is inserted the scorpio would not start while in the Safari the immobilizer is
a part of the remote locking system which I had in the LX and still it was stolen. Well this does not mean that Scorpios are not
stolen, unfortunately both these SUVs are pretty high on the list of car thieves!

@wolfheart: am not too sure if I want the AT or the 4WD but yes I agree that the Scorpio is a more comfortable drive.

@samtheleo: good to know that your Scorpio has been trouble free and this is what I have heard that Scorpios are typically more reliable than the Safaris
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Old 14th January 2010, 15:43   #7
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@ankitwanchoo:

I went through a similar soul searching exercise before booking a Scorpio 4WD and these are my thoughts:

Safari +ives:
1. Safari has much better road presence. .
2. The interiors ergonomics like seating position distance from the dash, layout of the dash, steering seats etc are much better than the Scorpio.
3. Safari has lots of space inside and is a great long distance cruiser


Safari -ives:
1. If you are one of the unlucky chaps who get a vehicle that rolls of the assembly line when the Quality Controller is taking a nap you end up getting a vehicle with problems that can be minor to potentially major ones that require parts or whole of the engine to be changed. Granted that the warranty is for 4 Years 150K Kms but there is a cost to your time for multiple trips to the dealer.
2.Resale Value is a real bummer and it is not advisable to keep the Safari beyond the Warranty period. That means when you sell after 4 years, you take a big hit on the depreciation.
3. Refreshed Safari is due next year and that may affect resale of the current one.
4. A lot of my usage is in Chennai and the size becomes a pain in the city.

Scorpio +ives:
1) Generally more reliable than the Safari.
2) Good resale value, even after warranty expires.
3) Better if most of your driving is in the city.
4) Can be ordered with Captains seating in the center row.
5) The price of the VLX with Airbags and ABS is very attractive compared to the Safari VX which you have to opt for if you need air bags and ABS.
6) The mhawk is a fantastic engine with no noticeable turbo log.

Scorpio -ives:
1) Interiors are a bit cramped.
2) Ergonomics are not as good as the Safari.
3) Image as it is quite a popular vehicle for Taxi operators in South
4) Though the ride on the refreshed scorpio is much much better than earlier ones it is not as good as the Safari.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
From what I have seen in scorpio ownership threads, the cost of servicing(regular) over 40,000kms exceeds that of the Safari.
@tsk: If you referring to Capt Chandru's Scorpio, the *** has been doing a lot of unwanted service on his Scorpio. For example Oil change, Fuel filter etc intervals for the mhawk are at 15K just like the Safari 2.2, but *** has been changing oil every 5K in his Scorpio !!. He has not really verified the bill as the driver takes care of the service.

Scorpio does recommend 5K service but this 5K service is just a general check up/adjustments etc with no change of fluids required.

Setting aside warranty claims, I think the maintenance will be more or less the same for both vehicles.
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Old 18th January 2010, 14:42   #8
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Hi Guys,

Test drove the Scorpio over the weekend and am finally sure that I need to have the Safari back in my life ... the ride was quity bouncy in the Scorpio.

Now another dilemma comes up.... should i book the LX variant immediately or wait for the revamped 2010 safari which gets launced in Q2 this year.

I searched the net for the revamped 2010 model and found this.... More Scoop Pics! 2010 Tata Safari - Motoroids.com .... Am not sure if posting links of other web-sites is allowed... Mods please remove the link if the same is not appreciated/ approved.... Sorry!

Thanks,
Ankit
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Old 19th January 2010, 17:58   #9
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Actually Safaris and Scorps are both really fun vehicles with their own advantages and disadvantages. Good that you have made a decision.

If I were you I would be tempted to go for the LX but would regret later when the revamped Safari is unleashed. I would suggest that you go for the revamped version.

Last edited by Wolfheart : 19th January 2010 at 18:00.
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Old 19th January 2010, 18:24   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ankitwanchoo View Post
Hi Guys,

Test drove the Scorpio over the weekend and am finally sure that I need to have the Safari back in my life ... the ride was quity bouncy in the Scorpio.

Now another dilemma comes up.... should i book the LX variant immediately or wait for the revamped 2010 safari which gets launced in Q2 this year.
Yes whatever one says a Safari is a Safari and after owning one you know that so called cheap plastic and niggles are not such a great deterrent.

So now you are decided I would suggest a 4X4 EX.

Advantages

0. A 4X4 is a 4X4 is a 4X4 .. You will realize what you are missing only once you try a 4X4

1. Factory fitted Alloys = 35K
2. Immobilizer = 6 ~ 8 K

So you will be spending actually 1.5 Lakhs - 40 K = 1.1 Lakh more over LX.

PS : If you are not convinced on 4X4 part it should be either LX ( Money factor) or GX ( ABS) or VX( ABS + Airbags) . There is no feature worth the money in EX 4X2 above LX 4X2 ( Minda Immobilizer can be fitted aftermarket)

Last edited by amitk26 : 19th January 2010 at 18:27.
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Old 19th January 2010, 21:35   #11
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I suggest you should manage with your Indica for some more time and then go for the new Safari 2010. Your heart is set on the Safari so go for it. I would highly recommend a 4 X 4.

As for niggles, you must be pretty used to them by now.
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Old 20th January 2010, 00:22   #12
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Ankit,

I would not want to add anything further on the Safari vs Scorpio front since you seem to have finally made up your mind. I would agree with Amit on the variant analysis - go for a EX 4x4 if you are not too keen on the dual-tone trim/ABS of the GX [I am assuming that VX is out of your budget]. As for the 2010 Safari, the changes are nothing but cosmetic (check out the 'Tata at Auto Expo' thread) primarily adding loads of chrome to the front and sides of the vehicle, including chrome alloy wheels which I personally find appalling (strictly a personal opinion).

Hope this helps!!
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Old 20th January 2010, 00:54   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfheart View Post
Actually Safaris and Scorps are both really fun vehicles with their own advantages and disadvantages. Good that you have made a decision.

If I were you I would be tempted to go for the LX but would regret later when the revamped Safari is unleashed. I would suggest that you go for the revamped version.
thanks Wolfheart, although waiting for the NG Safari seems to be the right thing to do but the fact that I would have to wait for another couple of months before getting to drive the Safari is not appealing at all!!! Am trying to find out from internal TML sources as to when the NG Safari gets launched as well as trying to confirm the changes expected. Let's see if I get some dope from them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Yes whatever one says a Safari is a Safari and after owning one you know that so called cheap plastic and niggles are not such a great deterrent.

So now you are decided I would suggest a 4X4 EX.

Advantages

0. A 4X4 is a 4X4 is a 4X4 .. You will realize what you are missing only once you try a 4X4

1. Factory fitted Alloys = 35K
2. Immobilizer = 6 ~ 8 K

So you will be spending actually 1.5 Lakhs - 40 K = 1.1 Lakh more over LX.

PS : If you are not convinced on 4X4 part it should be either LX ( Money factor) or GX ( ABS) or VX( ABS + Airbags) . There is no feature worth the money in EX 4X2 above LX 4X2 ( Minda Immobilizer can be fitted aftermarket)
Hi Amitk26, yes after having owned the 3L Dicor and then the 2.2VTT, all th3 niggling issues do seem to fade away just by the sheer pleasure of driving the beast. I agree that the EX variant does not have any feature worth the price differential.

Well I am convinced with the 4x4 being useful in times of need, trust me man, I have been stuck in Jaisalmer once in the sand... was advised by people to not take my Safari to a particular area since mine was not a 4WD and I ignored them and paid the price. Luckily for me there were some locals there who helped me out!


Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderNomad View Post
I suggest you should manage with your Indica for some more time and then go for the new Safari 2010. Your heart is set on the Safari so go for it. I would highly recommend a 4 X 4.

As for niggles, you must be pretty used to them by now.
Thanks WanderNomad, but don't think my budget would allow me to spend anything more than the LX

Quote:
Originally Posted by cool_dube View Post
Ankit,

I would not want to add anything further on the Safari vs Scorpio front since you seem to have finally made up your mind. I would agree with Amit on the variant analysis - go for a EX 4x4 if you are not too keen on the dual-tone trim/ABS of the GX [I am assuming that VX is out of your budget]. As for the 2010 Safari, the changes are nothing but cosmetic (check out the 'Tata at Auto Expo' thread) primarily adding loads of chrome to the front and sides of the vehicle, including chrome alloy wheels which I personally find appalling (strictly a personal opinion).

Hope this helps!!
Thanks cool_dube, the car showcased in the autoexpo did not appeal to me either. Anyways my budget is for the LX variant only which hardly has any chrome!
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Old 21st January 2010, 17:17   #14
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Dude,

Sorry to add to your woes but there are spy pictures of an all new Tata Safari posted on the forum today. It's expected that the new Safari will be jaunched in the 2nd quarter of 2010.

Shucks....I was just about to post a link to the thread for you and noticed that it's you who's started the thread! How silly of me!
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Old 30th January 2010, 00:33   #15
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Hi Wolfheart,

Sorry had been out of action for a few days and had not seen your post! Guess I may have been the one who added to the already exisitng confsion between the 'facelift' Safari (which incidently has now reached dealerships in NCR) and the 'new generation' Safari (no idea as to when this comes)
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