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Old 11th June 2010, 17:39   #16
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ATF is different, its not a normal gear oil,Scorpio AT cooling is done via an auxiliary cooler as well as oil going through radiator, the auxiliary cooler is at the bottom and the a pipe goes through the radiator just below the coolant tank over flow, the leak happened at the radiator and ATF pipe joint, the pipe completely came out of the socket and the oil was spread in engine bay.
When this happen I was climbing an hill but the revs where normal, there was a jerk and engine started loosing power and the mal function light came up, I stopped with in 20meter and once stopped I can see oil on the road, opening the engine bay ATF pipe was out of socket, was able to push the socket but it was too late.

-Pramod

PS: rough sketch of the leakage point
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Last edited by pramods : 11th June 2010 at 17:53.
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Old 11th June 2010, 17:48   #17
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Ohh thats bad.
Did the Pipe come out of socket,or it just broke\got damaged?
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Old 11th June 2010, 18:04   #18
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@akshay: its both it was leaking and lastly it came out of socket too, that when the complete oil got emptied and I was stranded in middle of nowhere, anyway I am expecting it to get fixed fast and delivered to me as soon as possible.

-Pramod
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Old 11th June 2010, 18:06   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pramods View Post
When this happen I was climbing an hill but the revs where normal, there was a jerk and engine started loosing power and the mal function light came up, I stopped with in 20meter and once stopped I can see oil on the road, opening the engine bay ATF pipe was out of socket, was able to push the socket but it was too late.

-Pramod

PS: rough sketch of the leakage point
Sorry to hear about this. It must have been a terrible ordeal for you to deal with this.

Did you find out the root cause of this? Why it happened and how it could have been avoided ?
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Old 11th June 2010, 18:27   #20
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Since there was supposedly no damage to the vehicle and the pipe "Came off" its socket on its own, I still suspect that this is a regular issue. It seems like a one off case which has happened.

The Scorp AT has been developed and tested quite extensively in Australia and is among the best ATs today. I strongly feel this was a one off incident, which of course should not have happened.
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Old 11th June 2010, 19:01   #21
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4x4 ATs in rest of the world are as unreliable? Is it just plain unreliable engg from Mahindra?
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Old 11th June 2010, 20:07   #22
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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
The Scorp AT has been developed and tested quite extensively in Australia and is among the best ATs today. I strongly feel this was a one off incident, which of course should not have happened.
Good for you, at least you are able to say it with a fair bit of conviction!

Just for my understanding, is it supposed to be the best simply because its been tested extensively in Australia or is it simply the best - Period? Do we have enough statistics already or are we just assuming?

Last edited by suman : 11th June 2010 at 20:17.
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Old 11th June 2010, 20:18   #23
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I think 3 things come out of this sorry episode:
1. There is a design flaw, pipes cannot come off just like that, especially in such a crucial assembly.
2. Lack of training and sensitivity on the part of the local M&M service centre which should have checked this when Pramod called on them on arrival in Leh.
3. 4WD driving conditions are tough, components and assemblies have to be at their toughest, and Ladakh is the last frontier. M&M has a practice of testing all its vehicles in the harsh Ladakhi driving conditions and something like this should have been diagnosed and rectified earlier before launch.
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Old 11th June 2010, 20:26   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pramods View Post
opening the engine bay ATF pipe was out of socket, was able to push the socket but it was too late.
Did you find out more about this? Is this pipe supposed to have some kind of clamp to keep it in place. What a way to have a breakdown!

Did refiling the ATF and fixing the pipe sort things out or is there something else that failed ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by johy View Post
4x4 ATs in rest of the world are as unreliable? Is it just plain unreliable engg from Mahindra?
AT's are reliable. There has to be more to this than meets the eye -
  • Some other failure caused excess pressure to build up (since the joint/pipe doesn't look like its built to handle any excess pressure)
OR
  • Design flaw

Last edited by CrackedHead : 11th June 2010 at 20:32.
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Old 11th June 2010, 21:36   #25
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Where is your Scorpio as of now?
Is it in Chandigarh?
There is just one dealership in Chd,Swami Automobiles,and i am not sure about their capability to handle a AT scorpio?
Will you be coming down to pick your vehicle?

ATF-Isnt it sealed for life or something?-Correct me if i am wrong

Last edited by akshay4587 : 11th June 2010 at 21:38.
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Old 11th June 2010, 21:39   #26
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Originally Posted by CrackedHead View Post
Did refiling the ATF and fixing the pipe sort things out or is there something else that failed ?
I don't know, as there was no one who have seen AT at Leh, and no spare there, I believe it might be just the material in the pipe, its my guess that the pipe joint has plastic and metal socket which may have given way because of altitude pressure, this definitely looks like a manufacturing defect in the pipe and the locking mechanism of that pipe.

I will only know what is damaged when Mahindra is able to do all the diagnosis, few hours before got the information that vehicle will be transported to Jammu today and they will fix it there with help from Ludhiyana COTEK people as transport till Chandigarh is not available as of now.

Will get a update on Monday/Tuesday on the status of AT and next action plan.

@Kumar ji: I heard from Leh dealer that they never heard of any AT getting to this side of India even for testing, may be they might have never tested that in Leh Ladhak region, I see very few mHawks there and all have starting problems including mine, I have to always jacket the front grill for early morning start, the day I forgot I had real problem to start the mHawk even by 9AM!

@Akshay: yes the ATF is sealed for life, but has a option to top up and even unwanted option of getting LEAKED!!, the design to cool the ATF is the weakest link in the complete design, the auxiliary oil cooler is low down at the approach angle and is suspected to get hit and leak, but that didn't happen to me instead the pipe and joint leaked which was supposed to sealed.

Currently the vehicle is being transported to Jammu[Chaudhary Motors] instead of Chandigarh[Swami ], I don't have option just to believe and wait

-Pramod

Last edited by pramods : 11th June 2010 at 21:51.
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Old 11th June 2010, 22:14   #27
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Pramods

This seems to be one off odd case or may be a potential design flaw as others have stated already. Maybe the ATF pressure was too high, during your situation and it gave away.

Last dec in gulmarg, i saw lots of hawks with a tail and they were happily starting in sub zero temps (ofcourse including mine).

Let us know what mahindra has to say about this when you get an update.

AFAIK, 4x4 hawks with tails have been tested in J&K.. where exactly i donot know.

Waiting for some good news.
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Old 11th June 2010, 22:23   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahulk76 View Post

AFAIK, 4x4 hawks with tails have been tested in J&K.. where exactly i donot know.
All new M&M Scorpio models are test-driven to Ladakh (Manali-Leh-Khardung la) as a standard R&D procedure, so the Scorpio is probbaly one of teh very few vehicles that is designed and proven for the tough terrain and sub-zero temperatures. Therefore, Pramod's problem is either a uncorrected/unnoticed design flaw or poor quality (the car being so new).
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Old 11th June 2010, 23:01   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pramods View Post
@Kumar ji: I heard from Leh dealer that they never heard of any AT getting to this side of India even for testing, may be they might have never tested that in Leh Ladhak region, I see very few mHawks there and all have starting problems including mine, I have to always jacket the front grill for early morning start, the day I forgot I had real problem to start the mHawk even by 9AM!
The Works Manager at Chaudhary Motors Srinagar told me that the initial CRDe had starting problem in cold due to nozzle design and spray problem. But that was rectified and now no problems as such.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pramods View Post

Currently the vehicle is being transported to Jammu[Chaudhary Motors] instead of Chandigarh[Swami ], I don't have option just to believe and wait

-Pramod
I have heard they are pretty good. Lets hope for the best.
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Old 11th June 2010, 23:16   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
Therefore, Pramod's problem is either a uncorrected/unnoticed design flaw or poor quality (the car being so new).
+1.

I see that the issue is not with AT but with the poor quality of the pipes. It may not be a design flaw, but poor quality of pipe supplied to mHawk.

Just that this part failed to perform; Pramod you can't say that AT vehicles are not suitable for Leh Ladakh. There may be many Endeavour's with AT which may have successfully completed Leh.
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