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Old 5th August 2010, 15:40   #46
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Originally Posted by suman View Post
Devdath, how many cases have you heard of in recent times where the shift on the fly switch has failed?
Just last month we all saw a Toyota LC Prado in AKC OTR event where the indicators said 4WD was deployed, but the front wheels were not turning. This was on a vehicle that costs twice as much as Fortuner.

Read this: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-e...ml#post2001660
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Old 5th August 2010, 15:58   #47
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Why not a Nissan X-Trail for a change?
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Old 5th August 2010, 16:03   #48
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Just last month we all saw a Toyota LC Prado in AKC OTR event where the indicators said 4WD was deployed, but the front wheels were not turning. This was on a vehicle that costs twice as much as Fortuner.
Sharath, that's good to know but I don't think one or two isolated cases are reason enough to say that shift-on-the-fly is not reliable. I know Jyobeb also had a switch malfunction on his Safari a couple of years ago.

But there are many out there which haven't had an issue yet. There are issues with Manual Transfer Cases as well, are there not?
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Old 5th August 2010, 16:18   #49
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But there are many out there which haven't had an issue yet. There are issues with Manual Transfer Cases as well, are there not?
A friend of mine, drives a Safari and is an extreme offroader in my vocubulary, has never complained of this ever. So yeah, I agree to what you said.

My knowledge is close to non-existent in the area, but, are we saying that after so many years of engineering and million dollars worth of reserach automobile industry failed to come out with one glitch free way of doing it doing it right always?
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Old 5th August 2010, 16:19   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Sharath, that's good to know but I don't think one or two isolated cases are reason enough to say that shift-on-the-fly is not reliable. I know Jyobeb also had a switch malfunction on his Safari a couple of years ago. But there are many out there which haven't had an issue yet.
In MGEs it common to see half the 4WD Scorpio/Boleros fail due to failure of shift-on-fly. So, it is not uncommon at all. There is one offroading family in Bangalore which has 3 heavily modded Scorpios, they too keep failing in every OTR. Recently they replaced the auto 4WD with the manual one on all their Scorpios.

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There are issues with Manual Transfer Cases as well, are there not?
Yes, much rarer. But manual TCs can be easily repaired on the field.

Anyway, this discussion is really OT in this thread since the OP is not really interested in 4WD vehicles.
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Old 5th August 2010, 18:14   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
In MGEs it common to see half the 4WD Scorpio/Boleros fail due to failure of shift-on-fly. So, it is not uncommon at all. There is one offroading family in Bangalore which has 3 heavily modded Scorpios, they too keep failing in every OTR. Recently they replaced the auto 4WD with the manual one on all their Scorpios.

Yes, much rarer. But manual TCs can be easily repaired on the field.

Anyway, this discussion is really OT in this thread since the OP is not really interested in 4WD vehicles.
Thank you Samurai

Also, the Co which manufactures the electronic 4wd transfer case for both Tata and M&M is the same, Borg Warner.
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Old 5th August 2010, 19:12   #52
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i am a mitsu fan. but as an unbiased view...

actually X-Trail isnt a bad option. cheaper running cost (diesel), nice ride and handling. is a soft roader. Now as a direct diesel comparo-- i found the gearbox far smoother than the Captiva's.

If X-Trail is a no-no, then definitely the Outlander.

i would strike out the X1. a beamer would be more expensive to maintain compared to the rest of the options that have been listed so far.

The correct comparison to Fortuner would be the Pajero Sport (soon to be launched, perhaps in another 10 years going by Mistu's "speed" of go-to market).
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Old 5th August 2010, 19:46   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
In MGEs it common to see half the 4WD Scorpio/Boleros fail due to failure of shift-on-fly. So, it is not uncommon at all. There is one offroading family in Bangalore which has 3 heavily modded Scorpios, they too keep failing in every OTR. Recently they replaced the auto 4WD with the manual one on all their Scorpios.
I could be wrong but I feel these failures are probably more on account of exposure of the units to severe water & slush conditions - not something that a regular commuting vehicle would be subject to.

I wonder if we have any worldwide statistics on the percentage of manual vs auto 4WD mechanisms currently being produced & the current failure of each under non-hardcore offroading conditions. Now, that would be interesting to see. And more representative than a few Boleros & Scorpios packing up in MGEs.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Anyway, this discussion is really OT in this thread since the OP is not really interested in 4WD vehicles.
Yup, very true. Its just that I'm not willing to write-off the modern day shift-on-the-fly mechanisms (that have been developed after considerable research) so easily that's all .

Quote:
Originally Posted by New.Novice View Post
My knowledge is close to non-existent in the area, but, are we saying that after so many years of engineering and million dollars worth of reserach automobile industry failed to come out with one glitch free way of doing it doing it right always?
Very well said, couldn't have put it better myself!

Last edited by suman : 5th August 2010 at 19:53.
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Old 5th August 2010, 20:35   #54
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Why not a Nissan X-Trail for a change?
It never caught up. The ground clearance is laughable.

Its not a suv but more of a crossover. Plus I feel its too much expensive for the package.
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Old 5th August 2010, 21:38   #55
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I am truly learning a thing or two with every new post, please keep them coming. BTW, this BMW X1 suggested by Speedy has really sprung a surprise for both of us (we, me and my friend, are glued to these pages) given this being within 25 lacs in true.

I am newbie here and my posts take longer to appear. I will try and pitch in where ever I am required to give an input.[/quote]



In the NCR / Delhi the buzz is that the X1 "maybe" a CBU in which case it will be over 30 ex-showroom. But IF they are able to get enough bookings (deposits for it) they may bring it in CKD & it may be a little cheaper.

But the figure is not slated to be close to 25L either which way

BTW there is also the VW Tiguan & the XC 60 waiting in the wings. If they are assembled here, they may make a strong contender. Also consider the Vitara 2.4 at 17.5 or thereabouts it can take the wind out of many a pretender SUV's

Just my 2 cents


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Old 6th August 2010, 10:16   #56
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I have an update. We are meeting for dinner tonight and if I am picking the right signals, I guess the decison will be taken by the time we reach dessert unless of course their one final visit to the selected car's showroom spring up a surprise (they have already done a lot of visits to almost all models we discussed so far, barring BMW and X-Trail).

I am going to take a print of this whole discussion, though all three of us haev read it many a times so far, but you never know.

And if that happenes, I will have the news for you tomorrow.
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Old 6th August 2010, 10:28   #57
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One last comment. The car would only be there for a few years but his wife hopefully forever. You do the math
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Old 6th August 2010, 14:45   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky_63 View Post
In the NCR / Delhi the buzz is that the X1 "maybe" a CBU in which case it will be over 30 ex-showroom. But IF they are able to get enough bookings (deposits for it) they may bring it in CKD & it may be a little cheaper.

But the figure is not slated to be close to 25L either which way
In Bombay the X1 would be for Rs 31 Lakhs on road. I figure it would be cheaper in Delhi/Gurgaon by a few lakhs. This was only suggestion as the X1 carries the Softroader stylish image especially after mentioned that the friends wife likes the CRV and the friend would also have his "I have arrived image". The X1 is only available in Diesel, so it is practical as well.

@ Safedrive a very valid point there. I can switch off the engine but how would i switch off the wifey .

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Old 7th August 2010, 11:30   #59
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@ New.Novice, Let me keep it simple

Between the Outlander and the Fortuner : If your friends have no issues with a petrol SUV's higher running costs and don't need a 7 seater, it is the Outlander all the way. The Outlander has infinitely better interiors, ride & handling (Fortuner is very bumpy, even in the city) and brakes (Fortuner's weak point). Fact is, the Outlander drives much like a modern sedan while the Fortuner is a truck.

ALSO : Your friends MUST take a spin in the Nissan X-Trail. In my books, for the urban SUV type, it is a better choice than either the Outlander or the Fortuner. Car-like to drive, amazing ride & handling, supreme diesel engine & gearbox (the automatic is butter smooth) with impeccable build. Have your friends check out Rehaan's X-Trail review. My cousin recently bought one and couldn't thank me enough for the recommendation.
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Old 8th August 2010, 02:06   #60
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@New.Novice - mate, what's the latest? Or hasn't your friend been able to arrive at a conclusion yet?

Somehow I find X-trail to be too boxy - purely my perception of the exterior and has nothing to do with other qualities that the vehicle of course would be having. However, if I am able to read the buyers' psyche correctly (disclaimer - solely deduced from New.Novice's posts here and therefore, I could be wrong), I guess X-trail's shape/design wouldn't appeal them one bit.

OT - Khoj had an observation earlier this afternoon when both of us were at Nissan's showroom/workshop on Mathura Road, New Delhi. Nissan's workshop was looking more advanced and professional with neat and tidy servicing bays when comared to Mitsubishi's. Proabably it has more to do with the bad marriage partner MM has in India was my reasoning

Last edited by AlokSriva : 8th August 2010 at 02:15.
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