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Old 19th December 2005, 09:48   #1
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Default Advice on tata safari petrol

There is a Jan 2004 Safari petrol for sale here in mumbai. The vehicle is scracthless shiny silver color and has done just 22,000 kms...It currently has third party insurance.

The vehicle is currently with a dealer...What is the price which i should pay for this vehicle ?

I know that a petrol safari drinks fuel like crazy but i plan to convert the vehicle to LPG if at all i go ahead and acquire it and intend to use it only on the weekends and not for daily commuting.

Any feedback on the 16V DOHC 135 bhp petrol mill would also be appreciated.


~A

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Old 19th December 2005, 12:35   #2
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LPG? I would not advise you to go through the experiment as Tata Safari petrol sells in extremely low numbers and therefore the r&d dept has not had sufficient numbers to iron out the defects. So if you run into trouble with the thing you will have hard time since you are putting in a LPG kit etc., Whats your budget?
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Old 19th December 2005, 18:08   #3
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Not advisable to drive such a huge vehicle on LPG.. It will always be under-powered.. LPG is okay for light vehicles like Maruti's and Hyundies.. For TATA vehicles and that too a vehicle as heavy as the Safari it is a bad idea to get it LPG'ed.. Besides a petrol Safari is always a strain on your Fuel-Pocket..

For vehicles manufactured by TATA, always choose Diesel options for lesser hassles.. Its like choosing the lesser of the two evils..
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Old 19th December 2005, 18:33   #4
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The petrol safari is a good SUV,the only problem(HUUUUUUGE ONE)is that it sips petrol like hell and dont even expect double-digit mileage,and its good for 5kpl in city,the engine is quite refined and offers good performace for a vehicle this much heavy,i saw a advertisement in newspaper in delhi for 2004 safari petrol 4x4 for 5lakhs,rather than getting it converted buy the diesel safari.
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Old 19th December 2005, 18:55   #5
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I dont understand this logic of light vehicle with LPG is better than heavy vehicle with LPG. Can someone explain?
@adityapd, its a damn good idea, if the second hand price is right.
As per Overdrive, http://www.overdrive.co.in/art_dtls....=tests&code=18
As per Autocar, http://www.autocarindia.com/new/Road...ls.asp?ID=1027
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Old 20th December 2005, 10:20   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan
I dont understand this logic of light vehicle with LPG is better than heavy vehicle with LPG. Can someone explain?
@adityapd, its a damn good idea, if the second hand price is right.
As per Overdrive, http://www.overdrive.co.in/art_dtls....=tests&code=18
As per Autocar, http://www.autocarindia.com/new/Road...ls.asp?ID=1027
Thanks conan for those links !!

precisely....!!! i too fail to understand how fitting an LPG kit will make a difference to a heavy car ' coz LPG is just an alternate fuel and will have a marginal impact on the power / torque characteristics of an engine !!!

BTW the dealer a quoting a price of 3.68 L ( slightly negotiable) which in my opinion is a terriffic VFM package considering the less than 2 yr old top of the line vehicle with 16V DOHC 2.1 motor, Airbags and ABS which is available for over 11 lacs in the market.

The ONLY negative issue being of the abyssymally low FE which i plan to overcome using a gas kit ....

anyway will probably check out this car today for greater details !!!

~A
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Old 20th December 2005, 10:50   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adityapd
(slightly negotiable)
What exactly does that mean??

Sorry adityapd, This is how second hand car dealers talk. I've heard this before and couldn't stop laughing
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Old 20th December 2005, 11:14   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudra Sen
What exactly does that mean??

Sorry adityapd, This is how second hand car dealers talk. I've heard this before and couldn't stop laughing
, .

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Old 20th December 2005, 12:31   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adityapd
BTW the dealer a quoting a price of 3.68 L ( slightly negotiable)
That is a good price to start bargaining!!....good VFM.
I dont mind buying an SUV with ABS for around 3 lacs and fit in an LPG kit.
And tour the country from Leh to Kanyakumari...
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Old 20th December 2005, 12:41   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan
I dont mind buying an SUV with ABS for around 3 lacs and fit in an LPG kit.
Quick question.....how convenient is an LPG kit in the luggage space of an SUV, given that it is not a 'boot' separated from the rest of the car?

I have my reservations on the fuel-guzzling nature of the Petrol Safari, but then adityapd here is the one considering the vehicle and he (surprisingly!) doesnt seem to mind 5 kmpl....I mean, EVEN if the vehicle costs 3.5 lakhs and you get plenty for that, wouldnt it hurt to see the $$$$ signs whirring away at the petrol station everytime you fill up? And is it a 65 litre tank - then it would be Rs.3,000 per refill, aditya!
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Old 20th December 2005, 14:25   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan
I dont understand this logic of light vehicle with LPG is better than heavy vehicle with LPG. Can someone explain?
@adityapd, its a damn good idea, if the second hand price is right.
As per Overdrive, http://www.overdrive.co.in/art_dtls....=tests&code=18
As per Autocar, http://www.autocarindia.com/new/Road...ls.asp?ID=1027
Dude, Thanks for all those links.. But i wouldn't want to fit in an LPG tank in an SUV for the following reasons.

1> As Steeroid mentioned.. There is no seperate boot-space to store the LPG tank.. So any leakage is hazardous.. Not good from a safety-perspective..

2> Secondly, when you buy an SUV, you cannot resist the lure of off-roading.. The safety factor becomes critical with the LPG what with the cylinder bouncing in your luggage space..

3> The Cylinder reduces the luggage space by a huge volume.. So you have to compromise with luggage space.. even though you have 65Litres of Fuel Storage available..

4> Maintenance costs of a vehicle increases with increased usage of LPG usage and the vehicle power suffers a 20% dip..

5> Also if the Petrol Safari gives 8kmpl on Petrol, one domestic cylinder of LPG would not give it much more than 50-60 km of travel maybe even less but certainly not more.. Whereas a commercial cylinder might give around 90 km..

Is it worth so much of hassle..

Cheers,

Manish
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Old 20th December 2005, 14:59   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by man23ish
1> As Steeroid mentioned.. There is no seperate boot-space to store the LPG tank.. So any leakage is hazardous.. Not good from a safety-perspective..
Safari's panel gaps are so big that the leaked gas will flow out harmlessly..
Seriously speaking that is a risk, but can be minimised.
Travelling on indian roads is a bigger risk...

Quote:
Originally Posted by man23ish
2> Secondly, when you buy an SUV, you cannot resist the lure of off-roading.. The safety factor becomes critical with the LPG what with the cylinder bouncing in your luggage space..
Well when offroading which will be minimal for a heavy vehicle like safari, switch to petrol and close the gas connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by man23ish
3> The Cylinder reduces the luggage space by a huge volume.. So you have to compromise with luggage space.. even though you have 65Litres of Fuel Storage available..
The cylinder might occupy half the luggage space, but the other half is more than enough to carry the luggage of five adults. It goes without saying that it will be a 5 seater after LPG fitting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by man23ish
4> Maintenance costs of a vehicle increases with increased usage of LPG usage and the vehicle power suffers a 20% dip..
LPG is purer than petrol, hence it enhances engine life rather than reducing it.
And will have lesser emissions too. The only maintenance difference btw LPG and petrol is the initial cost. Coming to the power, this could be solved by tuning the engine( am not sure though).

Quote:
Originally Posted by man23ish
5> Also if the Petrol Safari gives 8kmpl on Petrol, one domestic cylinder of LPG would not give it much more than 50-60 km of travel maybe even less but certainly not more.. Whereas a commercial cylinder might give around 90 km..
Am not sure of this either. But it should workout cheaper than petrol.

Conan
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Old 20th December 2005, 15:27   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by man23ish
2> Secondly, when you buy an SUV, you cannot resist the lure of off-roading.. The safety factor becomes critical with the LPG what with the cylinder bouncing in your luggage space..
I hope a domestic cylinder is not being considered. Get a proper automobile spec fixed cylinder installed and most of the safety issues are licked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by man23ish
4> Maintenance costs of a vehicle increases with increased usage of LPG usage and the vehicle power suffers a 20% dip..
Dunno about modern injected engines but on my Conty, I used to "feel" better power on LPG. Some people recommend changes to timing (advancing) to improve power/efficiency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by man23ish
5> Also if the Petrol Safari gives 8kmpl on Petrol, one domestic cylinder of LPG would not give it much more than 50-60 km of travel maybe even less but certainly not more.. Whereas a commercial cylinder might give around 90 km..
I think that is incorrect. Going by the Conty example, assuming it gave 8 kmpl in city on petrol, equivalent of a domestic cylinder (14kg) returned 250+ km.

I was interested in a petrol Safari a while back and done some research. Owners I spoke to claimed it to be reliable & very comfy vehicle, returning 8 -10 kmpl.

Gears,
Red-One

Last edited by RedOne : 20th December 2005 at 15:28.
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Old 20th December 2005, 17:30   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
I have my reservations on the fuel-guzzling nature of the Petrol Safari, but then adityapd here is the one considering the vehicle and he (surprisingly!) doesnt seem to mind 5 kmpl....I mean, EVEN if the vehicle costs 3.5 lakhs and you get plenty for that, wouldnt it hurt to see the $$$$ signs whirring away at the petrol station everytime you fill up? And is it a 65 litre tank - then it would be Rs.3,000 per refill, aditya!

Just a quick calculation - taking RedOne's actually researched figures into account

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedOne
I was interested in a petrol Safari a while back and done some research. Owners I spoke to claimed it to be reliable & very comfy vehicle, returning 8 -10 kmpl.

Gears,
Red-One
Considering the FE of a LPG safari at 8 kmpl and the current price of LPG at Rs. 24 / litre the per km running cost of this vehicle turns out to be 24/8~ 3 Rs. not bad at all Steeroid......

~A

Last edited by adityapd : 20th December 2005 at 17:32.
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Old 20th December 2005, 17:58   #15
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Aditya, Last year I took a petrol Safari 4x4 from Delhi to Corbett national park on a week long trip. My impressions:
- It is large, comfy vehicle like all Safaris
- The mileage I got was less than 6 kmpl!!! This included highway driving. So make sure that you have a petrol pump (or LPG dealership) in the family
- Off road, it was excellent
- On road, I found stability at speed to be an issue. Once it moved sideways on a rumbler strip at 110 kmph. I am told Tata have improved the suspension on the new Safaris sold noew.
- The 135 PS was nothing spectacular. I didnt feel there was a beast under the hood.

With LPG:
- Power/torque characteristics will indeed be affected as you are supplying a fuel with lower CV to the engine. Tuning will take care of it to some extent.
- Maintenance on LPG vehicles is definitely higher, in my experience. As it is, the Safari seems to be a high-maintenance prone vehicle
- Make sure you get an automobile grade LPG tank fitted. Its horizontal, bullet-shaped, bolted to chassis, crash tested
- One likely issue - With the Safari's rate of consumption, your LPG tank will probably freeze and the LPG wont evaporate till it warms again. I used to get a layer of ice around my LPG cylinder in my old Fiat and had to carry 2 cylinders to switch over when one froze.

I was also offered a brand new petrol 4x4 at major discount when I ordered my Dicor.. But since none of my relatives owns a petrol pump, I decided to stay with Dicor, which is giving me 12 kmpl on diesel, less than 3Rs/km.

Last edited by nitinbhag : 20th December 2005 at 17:59.
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