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Old 2nd January 2011, 19:00   #1
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Default Dilemma : BMW X1 versus Toyota Fortuner

i am at a dilemma to get my new car.
a bit of history.bought my ANHC last year how ever was never comfortable with the car primarily because i was shifting from a Sierra and the elevated driving position had become a sitting in a hole position with the Honda, not to mention a negative road presence with people simply getting into your way at every opportune moment.lack of front bonnet visibility to mention. leading to some heart wrenching scrapes.simply put never felt comfortable with the Honda despite it being one hell of a car for a Sunday drive, or any place where the density of traffic would be less. the moment i step out of my residence the gate exits into half a kilometer of traffic which is waiting for the signal to turn green. competing with auto two wheelers and what not.so went back to using my sierra.
Anyway currently looking to buy a new car.had only one and only one car in my mind the Godzilla fortuner nothing else. test drove it was reasonably happy no other car even within the horizon. found a few flaws with the car will leave that for later. saw an article on the web for upcoming cars and there was the BMW X1. hm-mm this was in early November decided to wait and watch. come december the car was launched went and had a look at the wanna be SUV now stuck to deciding between either the fortuner or the X1.would like to have opinions on the X1 from people here. i need to get the car by May. getting the fortuner isn't a problem due to contacts can skip the waiting period. have listed some points as to why i like the fortuner and the X1 would love to hear opinions. had some questions to the X1 had now where appropriate to post them. so will list them here.

Foruner:

Pro's

Godzilla on the road.
Pedestrians two wheelers,4 wheels running for their lives.
Sierra like road presence.
Partial head turner these days.
3 Liter
126 kW @ 3600 rpm (171 PS @ 3600 rpm)
Torque 343 Nm @ 1400-3400 rpm
near 2000kg
Full time 4 wheel drive
0-100 12.74 seconds
Ladder on Frame
True SUV
Supreme of road capabilites
Mileage gathered from tbhp City 7-8 highway 12
7-8 seater
Bullet proof reliability
Toyota service experience
Lower maintence service cost
Will outlast the owner
Rear ac vents
Way better leg rooon
CKD
Manual transmission
Suv driving Dynamics Boat like
tops out at 174 kmph


Cons

Spartan Innova interiors
Mileage VS the X1
Waiting period : not relevant
Braking issues : resolved to which extent unknown
Unfriendly vibrating gear knob
Not Liked by my better half hence looked at the X1 initially

X1

Only theoretical data

Con's

BMW estate for practical reasons badged as an baby suv/ crossover

No off road capability
cost of ownership experience
New unknown unproven
Hype
4 service stations in south India, i think.
Run flat tyre problem
Sitting in a hole feeling with rear seats
Lack of rear leg room
Comfortably seats 4
Styling Subjective
Quality of plastics poor
No i drive on the CE edition
Negative road presence with the car vs Fortuner.
Hatchback


Pro's

The most important factor to me complete Front bonnet visibility
it's a BMW & German Factor!!!
fully electrically adjustable seat's
0-100 8.3 / 8.4 seconds
Tops out at 205 kmph
Halogen corona rings on CE edition
Automatic transmission without Paddle shift/ sports mode
(Six-speed Steptronic transmission Made by ZF
ZF manufactures for other cars, like Audi, Volvo,Jaguar)
Ipod compatabile factory ICE
6 Airbags
Fancy electronics
? Steering better
? stiffer ride quality
Liked by my better half
Arai mileage 15.4
177 Bhp
Maximum Torque 350 Nm at 1700-3500 rpm
On road all inclusive price of 26 lakhs registered at pondycherry


Due to time constraints have to make a choice quick, even if it means booking an X1 without a Test drive!

Looking for Opinions from current BMW owners with regards to Price, Negotiating lower price during paying a booking amount.
General happiness with your BMW purchases. Service Experience
Anything i need to know before buying a BMW

as for the foruner enough threads & posts exist to get a genuine feel of the car. as advised before by another member i need to make my own informed decision with regards to my needs best suited to me. how ever It would be my last opportunity to start a What car thread for some time. last time i bought the ANHC i didn't .

Gladly Waiting for opinions and finer points
Am currently Looking 80 % at the X1 20% for Godzilla Post X1.
100% for the Fortuner Pre X1 Era.

For those of you who swear by Toyota reliability, yes agreed anyone who owns a Tata sierra know what that means compared to normal people.

Not interested in the CAPTIVA / CR V / SANTA FE / OR ANY OTHER CAR!
Discussion is limited as to why i should be buying the Corp edition X1 or not.


Questions
1) how feasible is it to replace run flats with tubless
2) Any one else seen the Car at the showroom your comments
3) Engine performance vs other cars/ Suv/ A4 / Superb
am i right in saying the engine is good
4) Can i consider an arai figure of 15 for an automatic to be good in real time city driving
5) How much can i expect as no claim bonus from my 1yr used ANHC
5) Any other bad news

Last edited by abishek2222 : 2nd January 2011 at 19:02.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 19:23   #2
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Default

Quite a situation you have yourself in, Abishek. Let me try to answer your queries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abishek2222 View Post
How feasible is it to replace run flats with tubeless?
Very. Simple procedure, but will require you to purchase a space-saver spare tyre. Set you back about 20k but worth every penny IMO. Done the same with my car, details here.

Quote:
Any one else seen the car at the showroom, your comments?
They had one when I went to take delivery of mine. I was quite impressed with it. It's NOT an SUV, but let me tell you like it is from a 3-series buyer's perspective: it's just a 3-series with more ground clearance. It sits higher so it's easier to get in and out of, and it has a little more presence than the 3 according to me. If this was available in March '09, I might have bought it over mine for these two reasons.

Quote:
Engine performance vs other cars / Suv / A4 / Superb? Am I right in saying the engine is good?
Compare apples to apples, mate. Don't confuse yourself by comparing with sedans. Anyway, the same engine in the same state of tune does duty in my car and it is a cracker of an engine. Punch and FE is a combination hard to achieve the way this engine does.

As far as comparing it to the Fortuner goes, IF the 0-100 specs you have quoted for the Fortuner (i.e. 12.74) are correct then I wonder what's the point of the bigger 3.0 D4D engine in the Fortuner if the Beemer can do a 0-100 in 9'ish with the comparitively puny 2.0d. It's a smaller car and will be easier to drive around, too.

Quote:
Can I consider an arai figure of 15 for an automatic to be good in real time city driving?
Good? You can consider yourself privileged. Under ARAI conditions I can fully believe this engine can report those figures, because I've achieved 14 and 15 kmpl on the expressway with a light foot. The X1 will give slightly lower given the additional weight over the 3.

Quote:
How much can i expect as no claim bonus from my 1yr used ANHC?
Ask your insurer!

Quote:
Any other bad news?
No bad news as such, but be prepared for higher TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) for the BMW.

Let me try and sum it up this way. Frankly, the Fortuner should not be compared to the X1 only because they're in the same'ish price bracket. If your family is not larger than 4 and therefore you don't need to carry more than 4 (maybe 5) occupants in the car, only then can you realistically consider the X1. If you need a more spacious vehicle with massive cargo hauling capabilities and off-road capibilities, the Fortuner is definitely more suited. And presence wise, you'll have to decide for yourself what commands more attention; sheer size or sheer brand cachet. If you want the size, the X1 is wasting your time. If you'd like the brand, nothing with a Toyota badge will match the blue propeller.

A little clarity of thought with what you need and want from your car will go a long way in facilitating a good car buying decision. Avoid another ANHC situation where you have to sell your car in a year. Good luck with your purchase.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 19:42   #3
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Default Re: Dilema Budget 25 Lakh BMW X1 / Godzilla Fortuner

Something i really forgot to ask, the space saver tyre where exactly have you sourced it from. the Bmw show room. or your local tyre shop. my local tyre shop doesn't have it.yes i read that thread earlier the one with the pictures right.

As for the engine query, the reason i ask is,Can i be reasonably sure that i can take the 9+sec sedans from a standstill?
[ Imagine my sierra takes i think 20 + from a standstill, my ANHC simply goes Unrefined'ly musical from 0-100, feels like a go cart compared to the sierra]

Secondly any negotiating tips.what about BSI

Last edited by abishek2222 : 2nd January 2011 at 19:52.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 19:50   #4
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Default Re: Dilema Budget 25 Lakh BMW X1 / Godzilla Fortuner

I agree with what FS has said and have a few additions to make:

How long do you intend to keep the car? If it is for 5 years or more, then the Fortuner makes sense since you ll actually reap the long term benefits of reliability, low CO and cheap service but if you are the kind who changes cars, then the Fortuner is a no no.

Do you go off road or on long trips across unchartered territory? If no, then the X1 makes more sense since it has the oomph, better handling than the Fortuner on city roads and expressways, is more mod and is safer.

Do you need to seat more than 5 people on a regular basis? I do not think so. I have seldom seen more than 3 people in a premium car/SUV. If yes, then the Fortuner makes more sense.

Think it over and then decide. I d still buy the Fortuner.

You should get 20-35 percent of NCB on your ANHC.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 20:17   #5
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Default Re: Dilema Budget 25 Lakh BMW X1 / Godzilla Fortuner

I have seen the Fully Loaded X1 at the showroom and it looked good, with the panoramic roof and all. Though I haven't Seen the CE version of the X1, I think that it would be pretty bland, particularly in the interiors with the omission of the iDrive.

But, as they say, it gives you sheer driving pleasure and you need not be concerned on that part. So, If you are looking for a Safe and Fast Muv(SUV), then look no further and go in for the X1. But if it's a Huge, go anywhere vehicle, then Fortuner fits your bill.

Also while at the showroom, I checked out their TD car, and I don't know, if it was an error or something, but the iDrive was showing a mileage of 16 Kmpl.. Will check this out, the next time, I am there.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 20:32   #6
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Default Re: Dilema Budget 25 Lakh BMW X1 / Godzilla Fortuner

Seating 2 most of the time.Max 4 including parents.
No Off Roading ever.Max just getting off the road shoulder to overtake.
Well either of the cars would be with me for at least 5-10 years

Last edited by FlyingSpur : 2nd January 2011 at 21:06. Reason: Please take time out to type in full english. No inc=including please. Thanks.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 20:57   #7
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Default Re: Dilema Budget 25 Lakh BMW X1 / Godzilla Fortuner

Well buying a BMW is only one part of the story - you have to factor in the higher maintenance cost. You can read some of the Ownership threads here to get a rough idea.

I dunno, but if it was down to me I'd go with the X1. If you're not planning on any offroading or the likes, and need space for only 4-5 people the Fortuner seems unnecessary. The X1 would offer a far more involving on-road experience as well as great interiors! Don't forget the badge value (if it matters to you).

Just curious - how are you going to register it in Pondy (unless you have home/relatives there)? I think the Chennai cops cracked down on people registering their cars there but living in Chennai some years ago!
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Old 2nd January 2011, 21:04   #8
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Default Re: Dilema Budget 25 Lakh BMW X1 / Godzilla Fortuner

Quote:
Originally Posted by abishek2222 View Post
Something i really forgot to ask, the space saver tyre where exactly have you sourced it from.
Ask the BMW workshop for it.

Quote:
As for the engine query, the reason i ask is,Can i be reasonably sure that i can take the 9+sec sedans from a standstill?
I wouldn't get into drag races. But it should be able to keep up reasonably well.

Quote:
...my ANHC simply goes Unrefined'ly musical from 0-100, feels like a go cart compared to the sierra
I love the sound this engine makes past 3000 r.p.m.

Quote:
Secondly any negotiating tips. What about BSI
Forget about discounts. It's a new launch. At the max, you can save yourself a wad of cash by doing insurance yourself. Or negotiating with them. My insurance came to me 50% cheaper after just one round of negotiation.

I'm all for BSI, I think since you're planning to keep the car for long term, at least for five years you will not have to worry about maintenance costs (and believe me, they are horrifying).

Quote:
Originally Posted by abishek2222 View Post
Seating 2 most of the time.Max 4 inc parents
No off roading ever. Max just getting off the road shoulder to overtake.
Well either of the cars would be with me for at least 5-10 years
Sounds like the X1 to me. The only reason I might reconsider is if you're planning to keep the car for more than 7-8 years, just maybe the Toyota might be a better idea in terms of long-term reliability of electricals. But I think after 5-6 years of ownership you might be in a good position to take a call on that, not just yet.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 21:29   #9
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Default Re: Dilema Budget 25 Lakh BMW X1 / Godzilla Fortuner

Quote:
Originally Posted by abishek2222 View Post
Seating 2 most of the time.Max 4 including parents.
No Off Roading ever.Max just getting off the road shoulder to overtake.
Well either of the cars would be with me for at least 5-10 years
As a city slicker vehicle, the X1 is better but then, since you plan to keep it for long, take a very close look before you take the plunge. Also, going by the likes of it, the X1 will depreciate faster than the Fortuner. Also, read the Fortuner reviews and you will know that its service costs are very affordable, at least for the initial periods of ownership. Go for the Fortuner is what I would suggest.

In fact, there are other vehicles which suit you better than both these but there is no point in driving this discussion towards them.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 08:04   #10
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Default Re: Dilema Budget 25 Lakh BMW X1 / Godzilla Fortuner

As forPondicherry well at least 4 cars are being registered every month fom the showroom in Chennai. 4 lakhs less road tax.the price for the 20d would go up from 26 to near 30 Lakhs if it was registered in Chennai.


As for the crack down yes i remember that.
As i remember it there where just way too many PY registered cars on the road back then in 1993 -96 period, even maruthi was getting PY done. for today i'd say PY cars are a few and scarce.

But then will Wait and watch as the situation seem to have cooled down for sure and shows no signs/ indications of heating up.

ON a lighter note even if the Fortuner is a 7-8 seater it would be irrelevant as i has planed to remove the rear row of seats to accommodate for Kicker L5 sub woofer box and speakers, and the odd luggage. How ever i doubt i would be getting an aftermarket head unit fitment done in the X1 which puts me at an almost extreme disadvantage.

Badge matters since i doubt i'll be buying a new car for quite a long while.
I did go through most BMW ownership thread how ever the only relevant ones where the 3 series.
Also did go through the few Fortuner Thread also extensively.

Last edited by abishek2222 : 3rd January 2011 at 08:11.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 08:38   #11
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Default Re: Dilema Budget 25 Lakh BMW X1 / Godzilla Fortuner

Dear Abhishek the X1 is surely a better car overall. Though looks wise and sheer road presence may be subjective. I feel Fortuner is the winner on that front. Nevertheless the X1 will always have more snob value than the fortuner, if thats important to you.

The 26L on road price of X1 does not include the BSI right? AFAIK for the 3 series BSI costs around 3L for 5 years. So the On road price effectively comes to 29L. That is a cool 8-9L over the fortuner. So if you feel you have the vitamin M then don't consider anything else and go for the X1 and experience JOY. Just go through first few pages of Flyingspur's ownership thread of his 320D and you will want to own that X1.

Anyways Happy New Year to everyone on TBHP. Cheers!
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Old 3rd January 2011, 09:12   #12
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Default Re: Dilema Budget 25 Lakh BMW X1 / Godzilla Fortuner

How about adding Hyundai Santa Fe to the list, it's got a strong engine, comfortable sitting and would be quite reliable considering being a Hyundai.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 15:25   #13
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Default Re: Dilema Budget 25 Lakh BMW X1 / Godzilla Fortuner

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicmanaman View Post
How about adding Hyundai Santa Fe to the list, it's got a strong engine, comfortable sitting and would be quite reliable considering being a Hyundai.


Santa fe may just be the best selling suv in the US.Its just not my cup of tea.My choices are either the Godzilla or the X1.


exact prices are
  • 28,67,000 registered in Tamil Nadu
  • 25,67,000 registered in Pondycherry
BMW Secure package only for Exterior covers bumper to bumper all plastic and glass. 40,000 Per Year.Does not cover service costs etc.

Can some one comment on the resale value of BMW's. as i understand the fortuner has the strongest resale value.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 15:43   #14
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Default Re: Dilemma : BMW X1 versus Godzilla Fortuner

You don't need the space or the 4X4. The X1 is a far better fit. Don't buy the Fortuner for the wrong reasons. But just make sure that the X1 back seat is comfortable enough for your parents.

FYI, while comparing SUVs, I had listed down parameters that were important to me, given weightages to each, and scored each vehicle on each parameter out of 10. I then compared the final scores (sum of parameter score X weighted average). Useful exercise putting things down on paper or Excel. Though, ultimately the heart also plays a huge role.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 16:55   #15
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Default Re: Dilemma : BMW X1 versus Godzilla Fortuner

Really depends on what you are looking for:

IF your requirement sheet includes an indestructible tough-as-nails vehicle, abuse, broken roads, off-roading and a third row of seats, the Fortuner it is.

On the other hand, if there are only going to be 2 - 4 people in the vehicle, primarily driven in urban India and no need for 4x4, it's the X1.

You obviously fit into the second category, hence the answer is obvious. The 5 year BMW maintenance package is a MUST-HAVE. Especially as the X1 is a fresh launch.

P.S. I'd also highly recommend you to check out the Outlander. It seems well suited to your needs. Drives like a sedan, looks like an SUV. Its feature list will make the X1 Corporate Ed look bare naked.
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