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Old 7th January 2011, 17:48   #1
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Default Do I really need the THAR? EDIT: Booked Getaway!

Before I start on the above subject, let me give you the prologue.

As many of you know I presently have a Bolero Storm and a FIAT Uno in my garage. I like to travel quite a bit and lot of it is on the unbeaten path or through the bad roads of interior India. The reason for buying the Bolero has been illustrated here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/suvs-m...lero-crde.html (Looking to buy a Mahindra Bolero CRDe)

I had taken delivery of my Storm on 5th May 2009 and have had a love-hate relationship with it, again chronicled here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...new-heart.html (Bolero Storm: First Black VLX in India-Now with a new Heart)

After buying the Bolero I have travelled to Ladakh and few other places. During this time I have also started interacting with the Off-Roaders on and off the forum, attended a few OTR's and have fallen in love with the sport especially the camaraderie amongst the people involved. So the natural progression was to go for a 4X4 "Jeep". Along the same time I came across the THAR thread, saw the vehicle get unveiled in Auto Expo 2010 and finally drove it in Hyderabad in May. Having grown with CJ3B and MM540 and also having driven the spartan but effective Bolero for over a year, I was ok with the interiors provided they were atleast at par with the Bolero.

Now fast forward to Dec 2010 and we get to see the first pictures of the production THAR on TBHP and I'm . Soon we learn that the production THAR will come without HT and AC but the pricing is sweet and for this credit must be given where its due.

I started contacting the local M&M office about the possibilities of a factory fitted AC and few other tweaks but the reply from the factory was in negative. And then the came the TBHP official review and reading through the various posts put a few things in perspective which are basically not much different from the time when I was in the market for the Bolero.

My needs are simple:
  1. I need a go anywhere vehicle which is 4X4. But has to be fast and with AC.
  2. Has to diesel considering my running
  3. Has good pan-India service network.
  4. I might take the vehicle for some trail driving and amateur off-roading.

I had already gone to the M&M dealership to book the THAR and put my Bolero up for sale but decoding the sound bytes coming out of M&M doesn't look like the HT and AC bit is going to happen anytime soon. Or for that matter of fact the interior fit and finish is also not going to change. I was all ready to buy the THAR but the question that has started doing rounds in my mind is

"DO I REALLY NEED THE THAR?" Atleast in its present configuration state.

I'm quite confused and while trying to answer the question came up with this list of options and their pros&cons:
Bolero Camper 4X4 - Engine too crude and not available in white plate
Scorpio Getaway 4x4 - Built on the Scorpio chassis and not a genuine pickup.
TATA TL 4X4 - Have sat in a friend's TL 4X4 and that thing moves and the interiors are quite refined as well.
TATA Xenon XT 4X4 - I like the vehicle and the only drawback could be its price.

I know none of these are the direct competitor to the THAR, being in different price brackets but then these are the only decent 4X4 available under 10 Lakhs.

Since I'm looking to pick up the vehicle sometime in March along with a Nano, I need all the help in sorting out this confusion.

Cheers
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Old 7th January 2011, 17:55   #2
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Default re: Do I really need the THAR? EDIT: Booked Getaway!

Having read your travelogues and assuming you will be driving on similar roads/ routes.

The Thar in its present form is a definite NO. You travel with your wife. The open top will be a big issue especially in foul weather.

There is no HT from the factory.
There is no AC from the factory.

However a TL with a modification like this:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...away-home.html (Building a truck camper : Home away from home) would be an awesome thing.

Not the full kit. You can have just a simple one storey sleeping bunk.
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Old 7th January 2011, 18:12   #3
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Default re: Do I really need the THAR? EDIT: Booked Getaway!

id pick up the tata xenon,
beautiful vehicle
get it with the closes canopy behind
it wont dissapoint you
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Old 7th January 2011, 19:05   #4
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Unhappy re: Do I really need the THAR? EDIT: Booked Getaway!

@MileCruncher - I am in a similar confusion.

I have a wife and two kids who accompany me on my long drives. I haven't written any travelogues so far as I have been an ardent reader for last 1 year trying hard to become a member. In my bachelor days I had driven a Tata Siera from Kolkata to Dwarka Gujrat and then back to Arunachal for a marathon 3 months trip. Basically I will sum up as a person who wants the life traveling rather than a destination.

I have a dream to hit the roads vehemently once more since now I have been hard at work for more than 7 years. I am eagerly looking for One such car/suv/muv whatever you can name which is reliable/serviceable/economical/comfortable/customizable.

I have zeroed on to xenon xt as the TL i think you cannot register anymore in tier I cities, Also because of a bigger and tried and tested DiCOR engines.

However, no hurries as I have waited long, if something is on the offing in near future I would like to wait rather than jump now. Thar has been in a way a let down with bad interiors/ no AC and HT. My Cousin has a Bolero and after running packed (5 folks and luggage) for 500 kms - every one inside are fatigued. I have driven esteem and now Ritz. After driving through 600 odd kms I am fresh and ready to go out for dinner on my Ritz. I am looking for something which is bigger than ritz and can do offroad (soft probably as my definitions and a hard core offroader differs), is reliable and safe.

One thing which fits everything is a fortuner, however 24L on road in BLR is something I probably cannot afford. So, in simple words I am looking for legendary toyota reliability, Maruti after service and Skoda build quality within 10L.
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Old 7th January 2011, 19:25   #5
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Default re: Do I really need the THAR? EDIT: Booked Getaway!

If you want now go with Xenon, you should get good discounts also. But if you can wait (i would seriously suggest you to), wait for V2 Thar Since you already have a bolero and sky is not gonna fall off if you dont have 4x4.
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Old 7th January 2011, 19:48   #6
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Default re: Do I really need the THAR? EDIT: Booked Getaway!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
My needs are simple:
  1. I need a go anywhere vehicle which is 4X4. But has to be fast and with AC.
  2. Has to diesel considering my running
  3. Has good pan-India service network.
  4. I might take the vehicle for some trail driving and amateur off-roading.
I know this is a cliche but why don't you stretch your budget a wee bit and go in for a Safari/Scorpio 4WD? If budget is a constraint for sure, see if you really need a 4WD.
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Old 7th January 2011, 20:16   #7
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Default re: Do I really need the THAR? EDIT: Booked Getaway!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cool_dube View Post
I know this is a cliche but why don't you stretch your budget a wee bit and go in for a Safari/Scorpio 4WD? If budget is a constraint for sure, see if you really need a 4WD.
Thar is more of an off road work horse, in its elements in fields and estates. It is not a 4x4 tourer. A Scorpio without the last row is an ideal bad roader and the 4x4 comes with all goodies like ABS, Airbags (also a lot of baggage - voice assist, rain sensor etc). With lower overhang than a Safari it should also have an edge in climbing to and from ditches.
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Old 7th January 2011, 20:20   #8
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Default re: Do I really need the THAR? EDIT: Booked Getaway!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
Thar is more of an off road work horse, in its elements in fields and estates. It is not a 4x4 tourer. A Scorpio without the last row is an ideal bad roader and the 4x4 comes with all goodies like ABS, Airbags (also a lot of baggage - voice assist, rain sensor etc). With lower overhang than a Safari it should also have an edge in climbing to and from ditches.
If the boldened point is the case, they why Crde and IFS they could have rather given us MDI engine with more 4x4 adaptable suspension setup, right ?
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Old 7th January 2011, 20:35   #9
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Default re: Do I really need the THAR? EDIT: Booked Getaway!

If you are including the mountains in your future trips, then you need Heater + AC.
Apparently the AC Thar will have no heater.
So you are better of with either a Xenon(but its huge) or a getaway. I am assuming you can spend 10L
If you do go for the xenon, make sure you get the maintenance package from Tata, as frequent trail driving takes a toll on suspension and bushes, and even simple jobs cost the order of 3-4K when it comes to Authorized service centers.
With the full coverage Gold AMC, you are covered for 50K kms atleast.
That said, if you do get a Tata vehicle with maximum problems possible, you are looking at a ball park maintenance figure of 60-70p/km excluding tires when your vehicles touches 60,000kms.

As for IFS etc., do not bother. It does not mater whether its FFS/IFS/IAS/IPS/MLA/MP. I doubt you will ever do the kind of offroading which will break the Thar's suspension. About the bushes and body parts I am not to sure. I test drove one, and I appeared that after 30-40K few parts may fall off. Bolero is much better build.

Also take a longish TD to get a feel of the seating. I cannot last more than 4 hours in that seat I know that.

Coming to Safari/Scorpio I suspect only top end variants are now available in 4WD(do check with dealers), so your on road price will kiss 12+

Last edited by tsk1979 : 7th January 2011 at 20:36.
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Old 7th January 2011, 20:51   #10
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Default re: Do I really need the THAR? EDIT: Booked Getaway!

MC, I was also waiting for the Thar patiently but the absence of essential features, tbhp review & indifferent attitude of the local dealer has put me off.
I wanted a vehicle that could take me through Khar, Thar, Corbet, etc. but the absence of an A.C. & HT puts it completely out of contention for me.
I intend to use the vehicle for offroad purposes also but the absence of A.C. without which the scorching summers are unbearable makes it difficult to use offroad. If I get such shoddy treatment for ~ 7L, Im better off buying a 2nd hand 540/Gypsy & sprucing it up according to my needs.
The interior ergonomic disaster, poor fit, finish & execution further makes a case against it.
In the present scenario, I would like to wait for some other offering to come in the market. If its better, I won't complain on a heaftier tag.

Proper interiors, better fit & finish, A.C, lockable cabin are a bare minimum these days. There should be no blunt/sharp plastics parts protruding, sharp metal parts should be aptly covered.

The local dealer when contacted is least interested & his in-different attitude & lack of knowledge on the product further puts the little interested consumer.

Its better to stay away from such a product about which the company is least interested in both manufacturing & selling. Add to that various short-comings in the product.
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Old 7th January 2011, 20:53   #11
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Default re: Do I really need the THAR? EDIT: Booked Getaway!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
Bolero Camper 4X4 - Engine too crude and not available in white plate
Scorpio Getaway 4x4 - Built on the Scorpio chassis and not a genuine pickup.
TATA TL 4X4 - Have sat in a friend's TL 4X4 and that thing moves and the interiors are quite refined as well.
TATA Xenon XT 4X4 - I like the vehicle and the only drawback could be its price.

I know none of these are the direct competitor to the THAR, being in different price brackets but then these are the only decent 4X4 available under 10 Lakhs.

Since I'm looking to pick up the vehicle sometime in March along with a Nano, I need all the help in sorting out this confusion.

Cheers
Bolero Camper 4x4 - Steer clear. Exceedingly bad interiors and comfort. Will take a lot of money and effort to bring it to a decent shape, and even then it will not be great. Getaway 4x4 and Xenon XT 4x4 - Getaway I have been told by M&M Dealer at Gurgaon, is not available in White Plate. The rationale escapes me, but they have been refusing me point blank. But, otherwise it can be a decent buy. But, I'd be worried about that excessive rear overhang. I test drove the Xenon XT 4x4 a month back, and liked most things about it, except the rear overhang and the unusually cramped cabin. Tata TL 4x4 - I have been told my the Zonal Sales Head (or something) chap at TML, that this cannot be registered in White Plate at all. And, aren't you scared about the Turning Radius of this? If you still have to pick up one vehicle out of the ones you have listed, you might as well choose a Xenon. Seems like the only reasonable bet South of 10 Lakhs.
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Old 7th January 2011, 21:07   #12
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Default re: Do I really need the THAR? EDIT: Booked Getaway!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
...
My needs are simple:
  1. I need a go anywhere vehicle which is 4X4. But has to be fast and with AC.
  2. Has to diesel considering my running
  3. Has good pan-India service network.
  4. I might take the vehicle for some trail driving and amateur off-roading.
=========
"DO I REALLY NEED THE THAR?" Atleast in its present configuration state.
....
The Thar, as a vehicle, suits tour needs to the T. However it's the current packaging/features that is a letdown.

I suggest wait for V2 if possible. Should be worth the wait -- if M&M is serious about selling the Thar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
If you want now go with Xenon, you should get good discounts also. But if you can wait (i would seriously suggest you to), wait for V2 Thar Since you already have a bolero and sky is not gonna fall off if you dont have 4x4.
. Do wait if possible. The THAR is a wonderful car to drive and you will FOR SURE enjoy the long drives. It's really a pity the M&M are ruining it by not paying attention to the basics.
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Old 7th January 2011, 22:45   #13
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Default re: Do I really need the THAR? EDIT: Booked Getaway!

In my pursuit of the elusive pursuit of the Xenon XT EX 4X4, I went to the TATA dealership and was shocked to see the prices.

Model Ex-Showroom OTR
4X2 - 902848 1052871 ( with 12% Road Tax)
4X4 1002015 1186837 ( with 14% Road Tax as its over 10L)

And NO DISCOUNTS with 40 days made to order delivery :(

Now MIND IT ! (Rajinikanth ishtyle) the Xenon rates were about 1.4 L cheaper in May 2009 when I had picked up the Bolero. In contrast the rate for Safari LX BS-IV still stands at 7.82L about 10k more than BS-III 2009 rates.

My budget for two cars (XXXX + Nano) is about 10L +/- 1 L and not much,Apologies missed out this crucial info in the opening post

So bottomline is (Actually holds true for both Xenon & THAR)

Dil ke armaan aansuon mein beh gaye
Dil ke armaan aansuon mein beh gaye
Hum wafa karke bhi tanha reh gaye
Dil ke armaan aansuon mein beh gaye

Zindagi ek pyaas bankar reh gayi
Pyar ke kisse adhoore reh gaye

Hum wafa karke bhi tanha reh gaye
Dil ke armaan aansuon mein beh gaye

Shayad unka aakhri ho yeh sitam
Har sitam yeh sochkar hum seh gaye
Hum wafa karke bhi tanha reh gaye

Dil ke armaan aansuon mein beh gaye

Khudko bhi humne mita daala magar
Faasle jo darmiyaan the reh gaye
Hum wafa karke bhi tanha reh gaye
Dil ke armaan aansuon mein beh gaye



@ Jaggu Bhai and Khan Saab: I know what you mean by waiting for V2 THAR but I'm really scared in continuing with the Bolero post May 2011 when its warranty ends . And going by M&M responses I'm not able to see light at the end of the tunnel.

@Tanveer: My only problem with the Scorpio is my driving position and that was the primary reason we didn't get the Scorpio in the first place in 2009. So I would need to go and sit and see if I'm comfortable now if at all and on that will depend my decision of the Getaway. But the THAR and Bolero driving positions are the same and I have done 25 hours of driving continuously in the Bolero, so I guess I should be ok with the THAR.

@cool_dube: if I didn't need a 4X4, I wouldn't be changing my Storm. Please read the opening post and thread links .

Actually summing up looks like apart from THAR & Getaway, there is not much option for a customer like me. I'm sure there would be good section of populace like me. Is this why M&M getting so non-chalant (colloquially also known as "Cocky") with its customers.

Cheers

Last edited by MileCruncher : 7th January 2011 at 22:48.
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Old 7th January 2011, 22:52   #14
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Default re: Do I really need the THAR? EDIT: Booked Getaway!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
....Actually summing up looks like apart from THAR & Getaway, there is not much option for a customer like me. I'm sure there would be good section of populace like me. ...
EXACTLY.. and now imagine if the Thar was to your liking (with A/C, HT & half decent interiors), it would be a no brainier decision -- to you and for lots & lots of people like you.

If only...
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Old 8th January 2011, 11:05   #15
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Default re: Do I really need the THAR? EDIT: Booked Getaway!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2500cc View Post
If the boldened point is the case, they why Crde and IFS they could have rather given us MDI engine with more 4x4 adaptable suspension setup, right ?
There is an MDI version also http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...i-brochure.pdf. This is all leaf springs with 4x4 optional.
The only reason for Crde is BS-IV. A lot of enthusiasts are metro based, hence BS-II or BS-III is out.

I would like to see Thar with the mHawk 2.2 + AC + Hard Top, some what a short wheel base Scorpio.

Last edited by Aroy : 8th January 2011 at 11:11.
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