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Old 4th May 2011, 01:10   #1
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Default Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)

Is it possible to repaint my 2001 Lancer (same colour, Alpine Blue) without stripping the car? The car has done 65K on the odo, there are no dents, just scratches.

I really hate stripping all the plastic and rubber parts because they may not reassemble properly and may need to be replaced entirely adding to the cost.

I was told that a perfect job is possible only in a temperature controlled booth with bare metal painting. This way the paint adhers to the metal properly, dries to a high gloss and won't peel-off later.

Is there any new technology / procedure that can acheive the same results as baremetal painting but without stripping the car entirely?

And what would be the cost for both procedures?
What are pro's and con's?
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Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)-malvangoa_trip-007.jpg  


Last edited by Chewbacca : 4th May 2011 at 01:15.
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Old 4th May 2011, 05:44   #2
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Default re: Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)

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Originally Posted by Chewbacca View Post
Is it possible to repaint my 2001 Lancer (same colour, Alpine Blue) without stripping the car? The car has done 65K on the odo, there are no dents, just scratches.
How bad are the scratches? if they are not really bad try to get the car detailed, This will take care of the scratches. if it really needs a paint job you can have it painted without removing a lot of stuff.

Pramod

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 4th May 2011 at 16:42. Reason: No need to use the entire quote here.
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Old 4th May 2011, 16:17   #3
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Default re: Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)

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Originally Posted by Chewbacca View Post
Is it possible to repaint my 2001 Lancer (same colour, Alpine Blue) without stripping the car? The car has done 65K on the odo, there are no dents, just scratches.
Absolutely! This kind of paint process is known as "overcoat". Of course, your painter will first level out the surface using lambi. Unless my car has severe rust issues, I always prefer to get an overcoat, rather than a strip down and paint. This is most cost-effective for older cars that you still want to hold on to, but avoid spending a lot of $$$ on.

Quote:
I was told that a perfect job is possible only in a temperature controlled booth with bare metal painting.
It's a 10 year old Lancer, not a gull-wing Benz! Jokes apart, I can assure you that you'll be very happy with a quality overcoat paint job, performed in a dust-free booth.

Quote:
And what would be the cost for both procedures?
I'd say about 20 - 25K for a really good job. Here's a picture of my OHC when I got her painted the same way that you are proposing:

Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)-000_0885.jpg

Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)-000_0883.jpg
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Old 4th May 2011, 16:37   #4
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Default re: Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Absolutely! This kind of paint process is known as "overcoat". Of course, your painter will first level out the surface using lambi. Unless my car has severe rust issues, I always prefer to get an overcoat, rather than a strip down and paint. This is most cost-effective for older cars that you still want to hold on to, but avoid spending a lot of $$$ on.

I'd say about 20 - 25K for a really good job. Here's a picture of my OHC when I got her painted the same way that you are proposing:
I gave my Santro Xing the same treatment for 10,000Rs, 3 years back, from a place which had closed paint booth. Hope this info helps.
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Old 4th May 2011, 17:06   #5
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Default re: Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)

Of course it is possible, got my Baleno and zen overcoated in a proper paint booth in Navi Mumbai. The Baleno cost me 17000 and i am really happy with the results. Just do your research on the paint bit and make sure to insist on quailty paint ( Dupont or Standox ) and make sure the people doing the prep work, paint etc have done good quality work before.
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Old 4th May 2011, 18:22   #6
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Default re: Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)

Usually overcoat leads to some paint issues like orange peel and if the painter isnt careful, fisheyes and what not!

I haven't heard about overcoating, but re-clearcoating can be done if the basecoat is still intact and the panel is dent and scratch(those exposing the metal) free!

The clearcoat needs a rough/sanded surface to adhere to the paint. A more thicker clearcoat might fill in coarse sanding scratches and adhere properly. More 'runny' clears need fine sanded surface!

If you're looking for a really high gloss finish, then 'house of kolors'(brand) clearcoat is the glossiest!!

Also, surface prep is of the utmost importance. After the surface has been sanded, wiped down with IPA or any bodyshop solvent like dupont prepsol and gently wiped with a quality tack cloth, the only thing that should touch it now is the paint!

Basically after surface prep, no finger, dust or anything for that matter should touch the surface except the paint that is being sprayed!
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Old 6th May 2011, 01:20   #7
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Default re: Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
How bad are the scratches?
The detailing job was abandoned halfway 6 months ago because the guy accidently dented the bonnet. That blew my lid off and I got the car back half done - a mistake because the body now attracts dust like a magnet. I got the car hand-polished twice but it keeps attracting dust, it cannot be easily dusted like before ...if you know what I mean.
Recently kids in my neighbourhood have displayed their creativity all over the car and I gave up counting the scratches. Also, while parking the Alto next to my Lancer, my dad scraped off 5 inches of paint off the bumper exposing the black underneath and in return got a long black streak on his white Alto what do I call this - a double whammy or a "tit for tat"?

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
It's a 10 year old Lancer, not a gull-wing Benz! Jokes apart, .....
I'd say about 20 - 25K for a really good job. Here's a picture of my OHC when I got her painted the same way that you are proposing
Thanks for the picture, I am going to keep that as my benchmark. The OHC is my favourite - the zippiest car in sedan category.
Do you know a guy called Davis working at Talera Ford? I was told he's the best in town (Pune) and will charge 50K for a bare metal paint job. I hope he does a paint overcoat at half of that.

Even after 10 years the engine, transmission and gear-box is super smooth/silent even at 140 kmph!! Is it because the Lancer was 70 % Japanese (CKD) in 2000-2001? Most of the modern mid-range cars I find getting coarse and noisy at those speeds and not to mention their streering going limp - really really scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavy_foot View Post
The Baleno cost me 17000 and i am really happy with the results.
Did the 17k on the Baleno include replacing the door rubbers, window garnish and window channels?
I am sure these do not fit back properly and we have to replace them with new. Any idea how much these cost for a Lancer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sohail99 View Post
Usually overcoat leads to some paint issues like orange peel and if the painter isnt careful, fisheyes and what not!
Yes, there are fisheyes on one door that was repainted by the previous owner after a minor accident.
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Old 7th May 2011, 14:56   #8
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Default re: Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)

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Originally Posted by Chewbacca View Post


Did the 17k on the Baleno include replacing the door rubbers, window garnish and window channels?
I am sure these do not fit back properly and we have to replace them with new. Any idea how much these cost for a Lancer?

No, it did not include replacing any of the rubbers, window trims or window channels. Infact nothing was replaced. These are not stipped during an overcoat. Genrally, nothing in the insides are painted in an overcoat. The existing paint is sanded and the body is prepped and layers of paint and clear coat is applied on it. 17k for my baleno included fixing some minor dings and dents, welding in a couple of places, sanding and prep work on the complete body and finally the overcoat in the paint booth which is commonly reffered to as the " bhatti ". I felt i got a good deal, but i had to invest a lot of time with the car when the work was being done just to ensure everything was taken care of well. I am happy for what i got for the monnies i paid, basically didnt pay anything more than 17k. The paint used was sikkens which is OEM for Maruti. However i think i you should insist on Dupont or Standdox even if it cost some more money. Attaching a couple of pictures.

If you are planning to change the rubbers trims etc, you should get the car completely stripped and painted. This is going to cost you atleast by 30k easily including the replaceables, i.e rubbers, door trims etc. No idea about the cost of the parts for the lancer.
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Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)-img_4742.jpg  

Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)-img_4745.jpg  

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Old 7th May 2011, 15:39   #9
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Default re: Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Absolutely! This kind of paint process is known as "overcoat". Of course, your painter will first level out the surface using lambi. Unless my car has severe rust issues, I always prefer to get an overcoat, rather than a strip down and paint. This is most cost-effective for older cars that you still want to hold on to, but avoid spending a lot of $$$ on.



It's a 10 year old Lancer, not a gull-wing Benz! Jokes apart, I can assure you that you'll be very happy with a quality overcoat paint job, performed in a dust-free booth.



I'd say about 20 - 25K for a really good job. Here's a picture of my OHC when I got her painted the same way that you are proposing:

Attachment 540018

Attachment 540019
Thanks GTO, I never knew about this. My old car needs a new coat of paint soon. There are no dents anywhere only a few scratches and swirl marks. Most of the good painter I talked to wanted 30,000-40,000 for a full body paint job. This overcoat system sounds economical for a old car like mine.
Does this overcoat also work if I want to change the color of the car ?
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Old 7th May 2011, 15:43   #10
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Default re: Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)

If you're going to get your paint clearcoated, I'd suggest you research a lil into tinted clearcoats.(if you're looking for some fancy looks)

If sprayed correctly the paintjob can produce some pretty awesome iridescent effects.

For example :-

Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)-challenger.jpg

This was a deep purple shade basecoat painted with black tinted clear or topcoat and looks pretty slick!

(Borrowed the picture from the internet, credits to the original photographer)
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Old 7th May 2011, 15:46   #11
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Default re: Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)

Sohail
Now thats how I want my car to look
Most painters I spoke to said they cant spray clear coat on old paint.
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Old 7th May 2011, 15:54   #12
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Default re: Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)

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Sohail
Now thats how I want my car to look
Most painters I spoke to said they cant spray clear coat on old paint.
it is done here 800 bucks for a coat of clear.


Pramod
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Old 7th May 2011, 16:29   #13
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Default re: Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
it is done here 800 bucks for a coat of clear.
Where in Kerala do you get a clear coat for 800 bucks?.

Also, sohail99 a question for you:

My car has several repainted panels, and some of them have different gloss. The color is same. So would a nice clear coat solve the issue?.
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Originally Posted by sohail99 View Post
.... If sprayed correctly the paintjob can produce some pretty awesome iridescent effects ....

Last edited by dhanushs : 7th May 2011 at 16:31.
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Old 7th May 2011, 16:36   #14
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Default re: Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)

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Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Where in Kerala do you get a clear coat for 800 bucks?.
Almost everywhere, if its just a clear coat spray and no leveling

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
My car has several repainted panels, and some of them have different gloss. The color is same. So would a nice clear coat solve the issue?.
The answer is no, the color depends on the base coat not on the clear.


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Old 7th May 2011, 16:43   #15
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Default re: Repaint without stripping the car? (Paint Overcoat)

Gloss is mostly affected by how the surface of the clearcoat transmits and reflects light.

When clearcoat is sprayed and there is moisture in the air compressor lines, it usually leads to 'orange peel' texture of the clearcoat. This severely affects actual gloss and reflections.

(if the air compressor is serviced periodically and water/moisture flushed properly, coupled with proper paint mixing and spraying with optimum air pressure(both as recommended by the paint manufacturers) + proper spray technique and even distance between gun and panel at all times = Orange peel FREE clearcoat)(spraying clearcoat flawlessly is possible, but requires expertise and I've only seen custom hotrod painters able to spray clearcoat flawlessly)

This texture has to be wetsanded until the paint surface is perfectly flat(ideally).(sometimes if the clearcoat sprayed is a thin layer or a low solid non urethane clear, we don't have enough of it to sand perfectly flat)

And then compounded with a rubbing compound to remove all the sanding scratches and finally polishing with a finer polish to remove compounding scratches and unleashing clear glossy paint.

Bodyshops refinish the panel after painting(as in, wetsand and compound) but usually its not thorough cuz according to them most ppl dont notice it!

If refinished correctly, many a times repainted panels come out more glossy(but that also depends on how experienced the painter is and if he had done the prep work before painting properly or not.(panel prep is most important)

You have to resolve the issues with current clearcoat first, cuz if you get another sprayed over it, the dullness or orange peel/texture will be trapped and it wont look nice!

Last edited by sohail99 : 7th May 2011 at 16:50.
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