Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14th May 2011, 18:41   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ghaziabad/Hyderabad/Mysore
Posts: 1,416
Thanked: 313 Times
Default Re: jazz cng compatibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
vina; I don't think the feasibility or possibility is a problem. Just don't understand why it should be done to an already fuel efficient and lively engine

Well, short answer is the same as for any other CNG conversion - a desire to save money, especially since from tomorrow petrol will cost Rs. 5 more (may be plus taxes - so Delhi may see a higher increase)

If I owned a Jazz (and I would have had it been cheaper) I wouldn't want LPG/CNG. In fact I just wouldn't want LPG/CNG unless it is factory fitted.

Having said that, if someone does want to shift to CNG then he must use engines that have a reputation of high reliability and good CNG friendliness to begin with.

If I want to buy a second hand car and run it on CNG I would want:
  1. an engine that has a high reliability to begin with
  2. as high a mileage as possible with or without CNG (I guess both are correlated)
  3. may be a relatively powerful engine - to compensate for power loss when running on CNG
  4. my personal preferences (trendy, stylish, more space, economy ... whatever)
  5. A vehicle that does all of the above and can be had VFM as a second hand vehicle with relatively little chances of getting a lemon.
On all of the above JAZZ works.
vina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th May 2011, 18:53   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ghaziabad/Hyderabad/Mysore
Posts: 1,416
Thanked: 313 Times
Default Re: jazz cng compatibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.D View Post
Not to take anything away from vina I think they are better ways to maintain the F.E in a used car without playing with engine reliability, chassis balance and the suspension. Honda makes great petrol engines let us not debate that
for new car or used. Hence, let it be petrol or ethanol cause converting to CNG will only cause loss of storage space, loss of crisp handling and suspension fatigue.
I agree with you fully. However you are looking at the problem differently from me:

I'm thinking from the point of view of a guy who has already decided on buying a used car and converting it to CNG - and he is now thinking which car to buy and wondering "how about Jazz"

You are probably thinking from the point of view that a guy has already decided to buy a used Jazz and is now thinking about his running costs, and is wondering "how about CNG"
vina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th May 2011, 18:55   #18
Distinguished - BHPian
 
dhanushs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bathery/BLR
Posts: 3,446
Thanked: 4,057 Times
Default Re: jazz cng compatibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
vina; I don't think the feasibility or possibility is a problem. Just don't understand why it should be done to an already fuel efficient and lively engine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.D View Post
Not to take anything away from vina I think they are better ways to maintain the F.E in a used car without playing with engine reliability, chassis balance and the suspension. Honda makes great petrol engines let us not debate that
for new car or used. Hence, let it be petrol or ethanol cause converting to CNG will only cause loss of storage space, loss of crisp handling and suspension fatigue.
Imagine a Jazz getting an average FE of 17kmpl ~4rs/km. A LPG conversion can easily reduce the cost to less than 2rs/km. With a monthly running of 2000kms, one can save 4000Rs/month.

Many are doing it, and however light foot you have, you cant match the savings of a LPG conversion.

... And there cant be a better car than Jazz to do it, for the reasons you guys mentioned. Much better than doing it with an unreliable car with an unrifeined engine and spoilsport chassis/suspension.

From an enthusiast/car lover point of view, it like murdering the car itself, but for practicality, many go through these process. And, car lovers are just a very small fraction of the entire car buying market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post
...
All together - the best choice to convert to CNG/LPG !

With so many Hondas on the roads running with CNG it should be perfectly possible to convert Jazz.
dhanushs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th May 2011, 19:36   #19
Senior - BHPian
 
selfdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,700
Thanked: 2,119 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs

Imagine a Jazz getting an average FE of 17kmpl ~4rs/km. A LPG conversion can easily reduce the cost to less than 2rs/km. With a monthly running of 2000kms, one can save 4000Rs/month.

Many are doing it, and however light foot you have, you cant match the savings of a LPG
Just seen the recent price hike; seems like at this rate it will touch 100 by this Dec. Now I am thinking I should also give it a thought :lol
selfdrive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th May 2011, 19:52   #20
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ghaziabad/Hyderabad/Mysore
Posts: 1,416
Thanked: 313 Times
Default Re: jazz cng compatibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
Just seen the recent price hike; seems like at this rate it will touch 100 by this Dec. Now I am thinking I should also give it a thought :lol
for $100/barrel the hike would have to be another Rs. 3-5/litre.

In the recent quarter average fuel price has been higher, but for Rs.100/litre it has to average close to $130/barrel - if that price sustains then CNG/LPG will be the least of our worries, a major return of recession would loom.
vina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2011, 23:49   #21
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 690
Thanked: 152 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default Re: jazz cng compatibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
And.. A Nano isn't a bad car at all!!.. Why would anyone make statements as if it was the benchmark of unreliability?. There are, and have been worse cases.

Without going too much deep into it, Ford IKON ROCAM engines are least friendly towards LPG.. Not at all reliable.
I didnot mean unreliability . What i meant was when such a small engine 600cc with built to price engine cooling system works then a car like Jazz which is of much higher technical value will surely and works .

I never said Nano is unreliable .

Rgds
Trust_In_Thrust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2011, 20:22   #22
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,758
Thanked: 89,464 Times
Default re: Honda Jazz & CNG compatibility. Actual User Feedback required.

I'd say that the Jazz is a poor choice of car to convert to CNG. And not for the reasons mentioned by others. I don't debate them; however, the Jazz' low end torque delivery is nothing to write home about. When you drive on CNG, it's going to lose out even more on the driveability aspect. Personally, I'd only consider torquey mills for a CNG conversion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subscrive View Post
How does warranty matter in used car segment?
It matters a LOT! The Jazz is a recent launch and one that had 4 years of warranty coverage as standard. Even if his car is from the first batch, he would potentially have over two years of warranty left. Considering that parts in modern cars aren't cheap, and fail even in the best of them, I would greatly value the residual warranty in a used buy. My OHC Vtec had 3 years left when I bought her (with the extended option)!!
GTO is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2011, 20:56   #23
BHPian
 
setuniket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Noida|Delhi
Posts: 114
Thanked: 7 Times
Default re: Honda Jazz & CNG compatibility. Actual User Feedback required.

Why butcher a gem of an engine with after market CNG kit. With that budget you have decent options from other automotive companies. I spotted a Civic with CNG kit in Delhi, I mean how ridiculous, if you cant afford to run a car, why buy then? Just because you have 14 odd lakhs to spend.
setuniket is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2011, 21:35   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
mail4ajo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 1,834
Thanked: 222 Times
Default re: Honda Jazz & CNG compatibility. Actual User Feedback required.

Like many others have said, please avoid. The car is not the best choice. You can extract better FE with creative driving methods. That should be the best it can deliver.

I find the Jazz very weak below 2K RPM. LPG/CNG may worsen the situation. I say from my experience on the LPG converted Alto. I abandoned the use after 5K kms. Unless you are driving 3K kms or more per month, its really not worth the effort.
mail4ajo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2011, 18:14   #25
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default re: Honda Jazz & CNG compatibility. Actual User Feedback required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I'd say that the Jazz is a poor choice of car to convert to CNG. And not for the reasons mentioned by others. I don't debate them; however, the Jazz' low end torque delivery is nothing to write home about. When you drive on CNG, it's going to lose out even more on the driveability aspect. Personally, I'd only consider torquey mills for a CNG conversion.
I agree with GTO here. While standing in CNG queue, I have talked with many people having different vehicles. The factory fitted CNG Waggie is also an attention grabber as the filling is different.
From what I have noticed is that cars like Jazz, Civic are not good enough for CNG conversion. Honda City does well.

Jazz lack torquey bottom end which will get further down if you add CNG kit. Also worth noticing is that the kit you will get wont be factory fitted. Drive a factory fitted Wagon R CNG or Alto CNG and you will know the advantage of a factory fitted kit ( and more technology also + tuning ). K10B is also no star for CNG as it too lack that punch, but its more managable than Jazz. Civic owners also end up speaking that on highways, CNG wont make difference, but in city driving, CNG is somewhat irritating. Even Esteem feels the pinch, but being light weight + a very free revving engine, Esteem gets away with it. Swift owners are also not having a very smiling face when it comes to CNG ( I am talking of G13 CNG swift ) driving in cities.
aaggoswami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2011, 18:17   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ghaziabad/Hyderabad/Mysore
Posts: 1,416
Thanked: 313 Times
Default re: Honda Jazz & CNG compatibility. Actual User Feedback required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
I agree with GTO here. While standing in CNG queue, I have talked with many people having different vehicles. The factory fitted CNG Waggie is also an attention grabber as the filling is different.
From what I have noticed is that cars like Jazz, Civic are not good enough for CNG conversion. Honda City does well.

Jazz lack torquey bottom end which will get further down if you add CNG kit. Also worth noticing is that the kit you will get wont be factory fitted. Drive a factory fitted Wagon R CNG or Alto CNG and you will know the advantage of a factory fitted kit ( and more technology also + tuning ). K10B is also no star for CNG as it too lack that punch, but its more managable than Jazz. Civic owners also end up speaking that on highways, CNG wont make difference, but in city driving, CNG is somewhat irritating. Even Esteem feels the pinch, but being light weight + a very free revving engine, Esteem gets away with it. Swift owners are also not having a very smiling face when it comes to CNG ( I am talking of G13 CNG swift ) driving in cities.

Doesn't WagonR come with LPG version too? - that will save the rear suspension and boot space from getting slaughtered.
vina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2011, 18:38   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default re: Honda Jazz & CNG compatibility. Actual User Feedback required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post
Doesn't WagonR come with LPG version too? - that will save the rear suspension and boot space from getting slaughtered.
Yes, it does.
The earlier generation Wagon R was made available with LPG as duo.
When the K10 Waggie was launched, Maruti after some time restarted selling the earlier generation Waggie LPG along with K10 Waggie ( IIRC, a thread also exists on this ).
Now they have K10 Waggie petrol, petrol + CNG and petrol + LPG.

Yes, it saves boot space + rear suspension wont take that big a hit.
But matter is safety. Though LPG is not stored at high pressure as compared to CNG, its still not as safe as CNG.

I would prefer CNG any day over LPG.
aaggoswami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2011, 20:40   #28
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ghaziabad/Hyderabad/Mysore
Posts: 1,416
Thanked: 313 Times
Default re: Honda Jazz & CNG compatibility. Actual User Feedback required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Yes, it does.
The earlier generation Wagon R was made available with LPG as duo.
When the K10 Waggie was launched, Maruti after some time restarted selling the earlier generation Waggie LPG along with K10 Waggie ( IIRC, a thread also exists on this ).
Now they have K10 Waggie petrol, petrol + CNG and petrol + LPG.

Yes, it saves boot space + rear suspension wont take that big a hit.
But matter is safety. Though LPG is not stored at high pressure as compared to CNG, its still not as safe as CNG.

I would prefer CNG any day over LPG.

Well I read somewhere that safety wise while CNG is safest (safer than diesel), petrol is worse than LPG. I'm talking about fire hazard for a vehicle.

Apparently air-petrol mixture is easier to combust in a wider fuel/air ratio range than for LPG, and also because petrol is liquid at room temperature and pressure (though gives strong fumes), it can stay near the vehicle and potential sources of ignition for far longer than LPG can.

It was a one off article somewhere, I can't even find it again (tried searching just now) - so it may be wrong too.


given the hassles of getting the gas etc. and the lifetime reduction of the engine I would rather go for diesel - for most low people with low annual mileage petrol is the best option, for high mileage guys diesel saves money as well as provides range between refills.
vina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2011, 00:57   #29
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: delhi
Posts: 707
Thanked: 89 Times
Default

Hi. I didn't want to start a new thread so I thought I'd just ask here. How would a more powerful car,in my case,Cedia perform on CNG ?

I've never had any difficulties with my Baleno or swift,former having done 1.35 lakh kms.

Mods,can we convert this thread to 'cng compatibility'. That way,everyone can ask their questions. Just a suggestion.
sukrit7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2011, 10:44   #30
Team-BHP Support
 
suhaas307's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,055
Thanked: 6,602 Times
Default re: Honda Jazz & CNG compatibility. Actual User Feedback required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post
Well I read somewhere that safety wise while CNG is safest (safer than diesel), petrol is worse than LPG. I'm talking about fire hazard for a vehicle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post
Apparently air-petrol mixture is easier to combust in a wider fuel/air ratio range than for LPG, and also because petrol is liquid at room temperature and pressure (though gives strong fumes), it can stay near the vehicle and potential sources of ignition for far longer than LPG can.
That's like the devil and the deep-blue-sea. Out in the ocean, you might find yourself being circled by a school of sharks. Your other option is to drown. Sorry for being graphic.

All forms of fuel are combustible and can lead to dire consequences. Adding an aftermarket LPG kit to your petrol car might just double the chances of your car lighting up. God forbid.

I've heard of several LPG kitted Omnis going up in flames here in Bangalore. But if it has been installed well, I don't think you should worry much. Anyhoo, I would never recommend a LPG kit for any car. They were never meant to run on LPG, so why mess with it in the first place?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post
given the hassles of getting the gas etc. and the lifetime reduction of the engine I would rather go for diesel - for most low people with low annual mileage petrol is the best option, for high mileage guys diesel saves money as well as provides range between refills.
suhaas307 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Honda to raise car prices, and Jazz launch soon. EDIT : Jazz spotted testing on pg.14 GeekSrik The Indian Car Scene 463 9th March 2010 11:17
HONDA JAZZ Specs : Sometimes, we have to pay to be (jazz)y in our country sidindica The Indian Car Scene 507 10th June 2009 15:32
Honda Dio User’s Manual Required nicejits Technical Stuff 1 5th November 2008 06:29
Honda City AT 1.5 User Manual Required. subscrive Technical Stuff 0 24th August 2008 15:31


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 00:15.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks