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Old 24th May 2011, 19:35   #61
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Default Re: Emergency driving - Without clutch

While shifting from 2nd to 3rd, I managed to shift to Neutral but while shifting to 3rd, the gear lever does not easily move forward making the grinding noise.

How it can identified at what rpms the gears on engine side and trans side will get matched and the shift will end in smooth operation?

I am talking about Indigo XL Grand DiCOR May 2007 crossed 1,30,000+kms.
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Old 24th May 2011, 20:52   #62
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Default Re: Emergency driving - Without clutch

^^^
Hi,
Would suggest you practice double declutching first. Won't damage anything that way.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 24th May 2011, 21:11   #63
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Default Re: Emergency driving - Without clutch

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoXLGrandDi View Post
While shifting from 2nd to 3rd, I managed to shift to Neutral but while shifting to 3rd, the gear lever does not easily move forward making the grinding noise.

How it can identified at what rpms the gears on engine side and trans side will get matched and the shift will end in smooth operation?

I am talking about Indigo XL Grand DiCOR May 2007 crossed 1,30,000+kms.
Simple - read the post of sudev - word by word and follow it implicitly. It works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
^^^
Hi,
Would suggest you practice double declutching first. Won't damage anything that way.

Regards
Sutripta
Professori - Let him just follow the post written in clear simple english - D D Clutching is simple and not much of an issue - but rev matching and talking to the engine is!!!!!
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Old 24th May 2011, 21:18   #64
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Default Re: Emergency driving - Without clutch

^^^
Hi,
D declutching done right assumes proper rev matching!

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 25th May 2011, 06:31   #65
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Default Re: Emergency driving - Without clutch

Okay another way to find out when engine RPMs match. Driver normally. Hear carefully the engine sound when you are in, say, second gear and ready to shift to third. Change gears normally to third. All this while keep listening to engine sound. See and feel the difference when you leave the clutch after slotting the third gear. The engine would we rotating at marginally lower RPM's. This is what you are waiting to hear when you are to do the same action without using clutch.

It helps if you have ROM meter and keep relating engine sound with RPM's. Helps though not essential. Typical for a petrol engine sweet spot for gear shift will occur at 3000 RPM's and in the next gear the engine would be at 2200RPM's. For new gen diesels this is 2000RPM's and 1500RPM's. Typically.
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Old 25th May 2011, 07:25   #66
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Default Re: Emergency driving - Without clutch

^^^ I agree - we should talk to the engine, hear the reply and do the needful.

It sounds complicated but is actually very easy. Try it and feel the difference. I have started loving manuals now!!!
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Old 25th May 2011, 15:43   #67
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Default Re: Emergency driving - Without clutch

I tried as Sudev mentioned in his post.

I slot in 1 st gear and drive the car upto 2000rpm in 1st, then ease off accelerator and shift to Neutral. Now the rpm should drop to near idle (since the car is in Neutral). But it does not and remain near 1150-1200 rpms. Due to this the Gear does not get slotted in 2nd gear. I give slight accelerator (the rpm rises to 1500rpm) and try to shift to 2nd but in vain.

Same happens when I try to slot from 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th.

How to overcome this problem?
How to make the Needle fall below 1000rpm after shifting to Neutral?

Also I have observed that when I upshift from lower gear to higher gear, the RPM Needle drops to the Y Rpms when I upshift at X Rpms (where Y=X-1000).
But Mr. Sudev tells that the Y should be (X-500). Does this vary from car to car?

Last edited by IndigoXLGrandDi : 25th May 2011 at 15:54. Reason: Added last three lines.
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Old 25th May 2011, 19:21   #68
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Default Re: Emergency driving - Without clutch

First I am to assume that you are driving a diesel vehicle. The RPM's will vary with each vehicle depending on many design factors.

First tell us when you use clutch normally at what RPM you shift from first to second third fourth etc. And also just after shifting what is the RPM??

Say
1st 2000rpm --> 2nd 1200rpm
2nd 2200rpm --> 3rd 1200rpm
.....

I have driven many many cars and bikes and changed gears without clutch. Its just the matter of getting your ears tuned to RPM's. May be you are waiting too long to push shift in to second??
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Old 25th May 2011, 19:29   #69
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Default Re: Emergency driving - Without clutch

^^

You need to get the hang of it sir - Use 1st gear normally and shift to neutral, wait a sec, and shift towards second - Usually the second pause is given to match the revs.

DO NOT FORCE THE LEVER INTO THE GEAR - Keep a gentle pressure and it will slot in at the appropriate RPM - Simple. If you FORCE it, you will hear the gear grinding noise!!

Similarly for 2-3 , 3-4, 4-5 etc..

First get this sorted and then we'll talk downshifts..
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Old 26th May 2011, 23:04   #70
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Default Re: Emergency driving - Without clutch

Mr. Sudev, You got it right. I drive Indigo XL with Common-Rail Diesel Engine.

When the RPM Meter shows 2000rpm in 1st Gear, I shift to Neutral while simultaneously releasing accelerator. Then I wait for 1-2 sec. Then I try to engage 2nd gear with negligible pressure. But the gear does get engaged only rarely. On other occassions, I have again shift to 1st since the momentum of the car gets reduced by much.



Back to your question--
1st--> 2000rpm 2nd-->1050rpm (might be 1050-1100. The RPM Meter has four divisions between each 1000rpm. That is one division is 250rpm.)
2nd-->2000rpm 3rd-->1050rpm (might be 1050-1100)
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Old 26th May 2011, 23:18   #71
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Default Re: Emergency driving - Without clutch

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoXLGrandDi View Post
.... I shift to Neutral while simultaneously releasing accelerator. Then I wait for 1-2 sec. Then I try to engage 2nd gear with negligible pressure....
Assuming you are at idle, try increasing the rpm very slowly to about 2-3k, keeping the slight pressure on the lever towards the 2nd gear. At some point the gear will slot. Next time, revv it to that rpm and shift.
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Old 29th May 2011, 13:30   #72
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Default Re: Emergency driving - Without clutch

I have tried the following --
I drove the car in 1st gear upto 2500rpm and then shifted to Neutral simultaneously releasing Accelerator. Then waited for 1-2 sec. Then I was able to shift to 2nd without any problem. But I was not able to shift to 3rd and 4th from 2nd and 3rd, respectively.

I am able to shift to Neutral from any gear while upshifting but after Neutral the gear lever does not move into next higher gear (incase 2nd-3rd and 3rd-4th).
What extra measure should I take?
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Old 30th May 2011, 07:18   #73
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Default Re: Emergency driving - Without clutch

Perhaps you are waiting too long in the neutral before pushing in to next gear. The engine RPM's are dropping below the needed for gears to engage. So either try shifting faster OR in neutral give a little accelerator to revv the engine and then leave accelerator. Keep gear selector gently pressed towards the desired gear. It should slot when RPM's match. This is same technique as is used for downshifting.
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Old 30th May 2011, 20:53   #74
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Default Re: Emergency driving - Without clutch

I am able to shift from 1st to 2nd easily. But I am still facing difficulty while shifting to other higher gears.Frustrati. The gear simply refuses to shift to next higher gear while shifting from 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th.

I am thinking of shifting to Neutral from Lower Gear without clutch and then engage to higher gear using clutch. :

Also I want to know how to downshift from higher gear to lower gear. There is more resistance while shifting from any gear to Neutral and from Neutral to lower gear while down shifting.
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Old 30th May 2011, 22:53   #75
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Default Re: Emergency driving - Without clutch

This situation happened to me as well about 6 months ago. I was driving back from my grandparents house in Palampur (H.P.) in my 2004 Accent. After crossing Kangra the clutch gave away. I was shocked and didn't have a clue as to what to do. Finding a mechanic in that region is a rarity until and unless you are in the city. And that too it is a completely hilly area. I had my brother, his wife and my 2 cousins in the car.

Stopped the car to check what could have gone wrong, I am not too knowledgeable about the engine and what is where apart from a few simple things. My brother knew a little bit, he poured some water on some assembly in the engine bay (he told me it is the clutch plate assembly), and asked me to engage the clutch, I was barely able to put it in first gear with a lot of effort. There was no option but to keep driving till I find some mechanic in a near by town. Decided to drive in the 1st gear itself, but it wasn't a good idea, so with a few hit and trial experiments I was able to figure out that at a certain speed level I was able to shift the gears with a little effort. It was the up-shifting that gave me a little problem, for that I had to drop the race completely and a 'heave-ho' effort did the trick.

Drove all the way to Chandigarh and finally stopped at a Hyundai A.S.S. and they told me that the slave cylinder was the culprit. So had it replaced and I was back in business. However it was such a horrifying experience. If only this thread had existed back then, I would have been much wiser to cope with the situation
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