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Old 28th March 2011, 22:08   #1936
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Ok, here is a RED Flag. Keep AWAY from Sireesh. Any outlet of theirs. All my friends have had their worst experiences there.
My experience with Shireesh in the year 2008 was also not good. My Scorpio's brake booster had failed on my drive from Bombay to Bangalore. I checked into the workshop at 10 am. And checked out at 530 pm. And the entire work they had to do took 30 minutes! I was clear that the brake booster had failed and they tried to con me into fitting just the master cylinder saying that is the problem. That was because they did not have the brake booster in their stock. Happily, the brakes continued to be bad after changing the master - obviously, since it was the brake booster that was at fault! Then they sheepishly admitted - after making me wait for 2-3 hours that they did not have the booster in stock - and they managed to procure it from somewhere, the part finally coming in at the closing hours of the day. Had the brakes worked even marginally better, I am sure they would have packed me off saying problem is solved!

What this also highlights is that the design of the brake booster had changed - and my Scorpio is a 2005 model - and even in 2008, this part was not in stock (since they were stocking only the latest design!). It is quite illogical that they stock the parts of the latest model when it is most likely that the older models are most likely to require parts changes!

The manner in which M&M has effected product design changes, most parts of older models are simply not available and often, unless they visually inspect the part (like old time garages), they are not even able to identify the part number or locate the part in the bin. I have had many run-ins with ASCs for what are absolutely simple parts like fasteners. Right now, I am searching for a simple rubber tube for the vacuum system of my Scorpio. Not available.

Talking of parts not available, I have gone searching 5 cities & equivalent number of ASCs for one wheel nut!
And I am still searching to replace the leaking cap of my power steering oil tank!

Last edited by hvkumar : 28th March 2011 at 22:17.
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Old 28th March 2011, 22:13   #1937
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
I wonder - this must be a world record, to run a pair of brake calipers without kit change / caliper replacement for 2.61L km!!! Spike, you want those calipers for a museum or for the R&D people to take a look at?
I have changed rear cylinder kits, but not the front calipers!
Parts are available for museum in exchange for new ones!

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Old 28th March 2011, 22:19   #1938
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
I wonder - this must be a world record, to run a pair of brake calipers without kit change / caliper replacement for 2.61L km!!! Spike, you want those calipers for a museum or for the R&D people to take a look at?
Maybe it's because HVK racks up the Ks on highways. And the speeds at which he drives, I don't think he touches the brakes.

On a serious note though, unpredictable behaviour/ feel is normally a servo issue. And dodgy pads which have vastly different characteristics at different temperatures. Or if slightly damp.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 28th March 2011, 22:25   #1939
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Parts are available for museum in exchange for new ones!
@Spike, BD: Is someone listening? A new pair of calipers is peanuts to pay for the immense knowledge that can be gained in researching a pair of genuinely 2.61L-km-old units!

@HVK: That's the least M&M can do to a devoted user like you! I'm sure dozens of Scorpios must have sold just on the basis of reports of your vehicle and how it has been used. You've elevated the M&M brand to cult status, well above Toyotas!
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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Maybe it's because HVK racks up the Ks on highways. And the speeds at which he drives, I don't think he touches the brakes.
Still, 2.61L with no service to the calipers is unimaginable!

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 28th March 2011 at 22:27.
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Old 28th March 2011, 22:25   #1940
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
On a serious note though, unpredictable behaviour/ feel is normally a servo issue. And dodgy pads which have vastly different characteristics at different temperatures. Or if slightly damp.

Regards
Sutripta
Sutripta da, I changed the brake oils and bled the system thoroughly without any significant impact. The brake pads are not so old, and both the rear brake cylinders have been changed recently too. I even found a minute leak in one of the front brake feed pipes and changed that too. Still there is no improvement in the overall braking situation.

So just to checklist what all I have done so far:
- Changed brake pads
- Changed brake shoes
- Changed rear cylinders
- Replaced brake oil
- Replaced vacuum pump
- Changed vacuum tubes (except the one tube going to the EGR Valve which is not available)
- Still not changed the main rubber tube from the vacuum pump to the brake booster
- Checked the pressure container
- Changed brake oil feed pipe

That leaves out only the caliper and the brake booster.
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Old 28th March 2011, 22:28   #1941
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
@Spike, BD: Is someone listening? A new pair of calipers is peanuts to pay for the immense knowledge that can be gained in researching a pair of genuinely 2.61L-km-old units!
@HVK: That's the least M&M can do to a devoted user like you! I'm sure dozens of Scorpios must have sold just on the basis of reports of your vehicle and how it has been used. You've elevated the M&M brand to cult status, well above Toyotas!
Oh yes, I will happily agree. You must listen to the sweet purring of the engine, sounds as good as new. The guys with brand-new M-Hawks envy me when they see my gear lever which hardly vibrates unlike theirs which looks and feels like a feather in cyclonic wind! FE is as good as it was on Day 1. Just that the injectors need to be cleaned. Ready for the Ladakhs and the Arunachals any day (except for the brakes of course!)
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Old 28th March 2011, 22:32   #1942
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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You must listen to the sweet purring of the engine, sounds as good as new.
I did, when we met, I'm sure you remember. A perfectly good car, with excellent feel overall. M&M ought to give you a new brake booster too, to do some R&D on the old one!
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Old 28th March 2011, 23:03   #1943
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
- Still not changed the main rubber tube from the vacuum pump to the brake booster
I would put my money on the servo. But make sure that the vacuum pipe is not collapsing from time to time.

Can't you get a loaner servo? For testing purposes.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 28th March 2011, 23:33   #1944
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post

Right now, I am searching for a simple rubber tube for the vacuum system of my Scorpio. Not available.

Talking of parts not available, I have gone searching 5 cities & equivalent number of ASCs for one wheel nut!
Sir, which among these are you looking for?

Name:  1.jpg
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From now on, whatever the part may be please buzz me before heading to the ASCs. I need the exact model details. You have a 2005 model Scorpio right?

Spike

PS- Which wheel nut?
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Old 28th March 2011, 23:39   #1945
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Sir, which among these are you looking for?

Attachment 524887

From now on, whatever the part may be please buzz me before heading to the ASCs. I need the exact model details. You have a 2005 model Scorpio right?

Spike

PS- Which wheel nut?

13! That is the one which connects with the EGR.

Wheel Nut - that is a old story, I finally got it. When I realised it was not in stock, I specifically indented for it in the ASC. But they kept saying it had not yet come, and forgot about it. On one occasion, I raided their store, made them look up part numbers - they have this irritating habit of visually identifying parts instead of looking in the part number master - and I finally located it in the bin!!! In the meantime, I went around on a drive and checked up in other cities too without success. (BTW, this is the nut which fastens the wheel disc to the hub, there are 5 off them in each wheel).

Yes, mine is the last batch of non-crde 2005 Scorpios.

Thanks!
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Old 28th March 2011, 23:49   #1946
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
13! That is the one which connects with the EGR.
Please check with the ASC these parts:-

03150C0260N Hose Vacuum to EGR (01)
03150C0170N Clip Hose Vacuum (01)

Quote:
(BTW, this is the nut which fastens the wheel disc to the hub, there are 5 off them in each wheel).
Sir, please refer my signature below.

Quote:
Thanks!
Let me know if this helps, or will try some other route.

Spike
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Old 29th March 2011, 00:32   #1947
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
It's a shim [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shim_(spacer) ]. M&M supplies standard thickness shims specifically to adjust the caster and camber angles. But what were they taking 2 hours to do the job for? You're probably unfortunate enough to get an incompetent/newbie mech handling your job.
No no, I should've been more specific. Two hours in total with me going there (approx 20 min), waiting for the service advisor (10min), going for a test drive (10-15min) and then taking the vehicle for the alignment job. I felt the guy doing the alignment job was quite competent and he was answering all my questions about alignment(toe-in, caster/camber etc). And he showed me the original readings and what should be the normal readings with correct readings. Alignment is done correctly it seems. According to them Caster won't adjusted and it was positive( I think around +2) and they adjusted the Camber, Steering wheel, Toe-in and Shim. The pulling towards left is there but not as violent as it was before. Now they need to thoroughly check the brakes as alignment doesn't seem to be the issue anymore.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Not necessary. There's no compulsion for you to service the car from the same dealer who sold it to you. Any M&M dealer will do it, as well as honour warranty.
Oh then that sounds great. I'll try SKS some other time for sure. But as of now as they(Sireesh) has done half the job, I'll probably let them try their best. And actually it seems like they are actually trying hard to rectify the problem, may be because it's a brand new vehicle or may be because I'm behind their tails all the time. Will they be able to fix it only time will tell. If they can't then I'll shift to others for sure.


One more query: Regarding the immobilizer code. My car is coming with the Nippon security systems and it does have option to change the code. I tried changing it today and I'm not sure if I've changed it correctly or not. But I was able to hear the different chirps as mentioned in the manual for entry of each code. So I guess the codes must have been changed. But how do I now confirm that the codes were indeed got changed and not the default codes?

Last edited by kaushik_s : 29th March 2011 at 00:40.
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Old 29th March 2011, 08:59   #1948
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

I did the brake booster test to check if it is working properly (as per the textbooks!):

1. With the engine shut off, pumped the brake pedal repeatedly till pedal became hard. This is to get rid of all the vacuum in the system. PASSED.

2. Started the engine, with my leg on the hard brake pedal. The moment it started, the brake pedal sinks in as the brake booster gets a fresh vacuum feed and vacuum is restored in the brake system. PASSED.

3. Switch off the engine, with the foot still on the brake pedal. The pedal remains depressed and does not come up immediately. PASSED.

Looks like there is nothing wrong with the brake booster. Therefore, my original hypothesis that the brake booster is OK appears to be validated.
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Old 29th March 2011, 21:59   #1949
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

^^^
Hi,
The booster is a servo, in this case a mechanical amplifier. Its output should be a multiple of the input force. If this linearity is not there, or if it is not repeatable, one has problems with feel.

The booster is not an on-off device. The validation tests/ checks which are commonly done essentially check its functioning as an on-off device. It is unlikely to pinpoint say sticky valves in the servo.

I'm not saying that the booster is defective 100%, just that the above point needs to be kept in mind.

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 29th March 2011 at 22:08.
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Old 30th March 2011, 21:38   #1950
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Can some please answer this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaushik_s View Post
One more query: Regarding the immobilizer code. My car is coming with the Nippon security systems and it does have option to change the code. I tried changing it today and I'm not sure if I've changed it correctly or not. But I was able to hear the different chirps as mentioned in the manual for entry of each code. So I guess the codes must have been changed. But how do I now confirm that the codes were indeed got changed and not the default codes?


BTW, my problem of the vehicle pulling towards left is solved today..
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