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Old 12th April 2009, 22:39   #196
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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Some information on that ....
I am not putting down the way they changed it on a public forum for reasons that are obvious and I would please ask other owners to refrain from doing the same!

Its an easy process and you can do it yourself. However, to be on the safe side, go to the dealership and spend 5 minutes. Yes, that is all it takes.

All Scorpio owners, please contact your dealership and change your code to another one right now!
Thanks for the info...but can you please explain briefly what this immobilizer thing does? Is it that when you lock the vehcile with the remote it gets 'armed' and then if someone tries breaking in / opening with the key...it shuts downthe vehicle? Then when you need to restart youley in the code?

if so, and you let the dealer to it, then its not really technically known only to you right? The chap who does it knows your code also?

Besides, I think the procedure is in the security manual, right?

Last edited by Mohnish : 12th April 2009 at 22:40.
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Old 12th April 2009, 22:50   #197
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Besides, I think the procedure is in the security manual, right?
Yes indeed it is!

And PLEASE do not EVER believe that the Scorpio security system is anywhere CLOSE to the real hi-tech stuff Maruti is fitting into ALL the cars made by it!
Maruti calls it the iCATs system and by all accounts it has not been cracked yet by any car thieves in India!
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Old 12th April 2009, 23:34   #198
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Originally Posted by Mohnish View Post
Thanks for the info...but can you please explain briefly what this immobilizer thing does? Is it that when you lock the vehcile with the remote it gets 'armed' and then if someone tries breaking in / opening with the key...it shuts downthe vehicle? Then when you need to restart youley in the code?

if so, and you let the dealer to it, then its not really technically known only to you right? The chap who does it knows your code also?

Besides, I think the procedure is in the security manual, right?
Let us simulate this as to as far as I understand how this thing works.

1. You lock your car and go.
2. Thief gains access to your car.
3. Your nippon security system should go off, but let us assume it does not.
4. The thief tries to hotwire the car to start.
5. This is where the immobilizer comes to play
6. Each car key is unique. So if your key is not slotted in and you try to fiddle the wires, the immobilizer locks your engine down. Now my assumption: The only way you can then start your car is to feed the correct code into the immobilizer switch - which only you will know. This is how the Scorp got stolen by breaking the code.

Yes the chap knows it, but since I know how to change it, I can change it right now if I wish. I can change it like a 100 times a day if I wish because its that easy to feed it in.

Over riding a changed code - I dont know. Its a bit like someone being able to crack your ATM code.

Something more. If you lose your key, you have to file an FIR and submit that to the M&M dealer who will forward it to M&M and only then will they make a new set specifically for you.

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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Yes indeed it is!

And PLEASE do not EVER believe that the Scorpio security system is anywhere CLOSE to the real hi-tech stuff Maruti is fitting into ALL the cars made by it!
Maruti calls it the iCATs system and by all accounts it has not been cracked yet by any car thieves in India!
I think the iCATS is very similar to the immobilizer in the Scorp and works much the same way.

Last edited by Red Liner : 12th April 2009 at 23:37.
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Old 13th April 2009, 06:59   #199
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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Let us simulate this as to as far as I understand how this thing works....

...Now my assumption: The only way you can then start your car is to feed the correct code into the immobilizer switch - which only you will know. This is how the Scorp got stolen by breaking the code.

...Over riding a changed code - I dont know. Its a bit like someone being able to crack your ATM code.
Thanks for the details Red...About breaking the code, what I think happens is like this:

New car purchased...New owner has not been told specifically the importance and procedure to change the code (not surprising considering how pathetic the dealerships are)...Default code known to car jackers...The rest is history.
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Old 13th April 2009, 07:09   #200
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I think the iCATS is very similar to the immobilizer in the Scorp and works much the same way.
Red, I am not at all certain that M&M is using the iCATs kind of system. If they were, you would not need to feed in or change codes. Does any Maruti owner have to do any of this? No.
The ignition key in every Maruti car (since May 2007) has a chip embedded in the key fob. The ECU will only allow the car to be started with that key. There is an icon in the cluster (like a padlock & car outline) that must glow steady at ignition on. The car will start. If that icon is flashing at ignition on, the car will not start. There is an ECU chip that only gets activated with the original two keys.
There are no user or dealer codes that need to be fed in or changed!

Last edited by anupmathur : 13th April 2009 at 07:10.
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Old 13th April 2009, 08:28   #201
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...The ignition key in every Maruti car (since May 2007) has a chip embedded in the key fob. The ECU will only allow the car to be started with that key...There are no user or dealer codes that need to be fed in or changed!
Yeah Anup, thats how it is in the Benz foorm 1997 W210 onwards and I was told by M&M D'ship that they have fitted the same (key chip interface to ECU) system in the Xylo. No reports of stolen Xylos yet according to the M&M D'ship.

Wonder if the Xylo ignition thing can be swapped into the Scorp...?
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Old 13th April 2009, 08:37   #202
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Wonder if the Xylo ignition thing can be swapped into the Scorp...?
They'll have to charge for a new ECU and the ignition lock & keys! Minor additional wiring to activate the 'padlock' icon in the cluster.
Theoretically very feasible.
The question remains: will M&M do it?
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Old 13th April 2009, 09:38   #203
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Originally Posted by Mohnish View Post
Thanks for the details Red...About breaking the code, what I think happens is like this:

New car purchased...New owner has not been told specifically the importance and procedure to change the code (not surprising considering how pathetic the dealerships are)...Default code known to car jackers...The rest is history.
Bang on! That is exactly how it happened.

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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Red, I am not at all certain that M&M is using the iCATs kind of system. If they were, you would not need to feed in or change codes. Does any Maruti owner have to do any of this? No.
The ignition key in every Maruti car (since May 2007) has a chip embedded in the key fob. The ECU will only allow the car to be started with that key. There is an icon in the cluster (like a padlock & car outline) that must glow steady at ignition on. The car will start. If that icon is flashing at ignition on, the car will not start. There is an ECU chip that only gets activated with the original two keys.
There are no user or dealer codes that need to be fed in or changed!
Thats very interesting! I am going to check with the friendly works manager here and find out from the horses mouth exactly how this damn thing works. Lets see what they have to say. I never knew Maruti could be so tech-savvy. Kudos to them.

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Originally Posted by Mohnish View Post
Yeah Anup, thats how it is in the Benz foorm 1997 W210 onwards and I was told by M&M D'ship that they have fitted the same (key chip interface to ECU) system in the Xylo. No reports of stolen Xylos yet according to the M&M D'ship.

Wonder if the Xylo ignition thing can be swapped into the Scorp...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
They'll have to charge for a new ECU and the ignition lock & keys! Minor additional wiring to activate the 'padlock' icon in the cluster.
Theoretically very feasible.
The question remains: will M&M do it?
Why is M&M treating the Scorp like a lost child now? All the good stuff goes into the Xylo? This is stupid.

For more security, go and get yourself a gearlock as well, which attaches to the chassis. More security, the merrier.
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Old 13th April 2009, 10:46   #204
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Originally Posted by Mohnish View Post
Yeah Anup, thats how it is in the Benz foorm 1997 W210 onwards and I was told by M&M D'ship that they have fitted the same (key chip interface to ECU) system in the Xylo. No reports of stolen Xylos yet according to the M&M D'ship.

Wonder if the Xylo ignition thing can be swapped into the Scorp...?
Technologically iCAT is not something very advanced or sci-Fi stuff as the marketing team of Maruti presents in promotional material. May be it was something very advanced when introduced by benz in 1998 but If you have noticed RFID is what every modern Shopping mall uses today ( as against bar code and magnatic strips used earlier ) and it is ultra cheap I just wonder why they could not provide RFID based immobilizer for so long and why aftermarket immobilizer units do not use RFID ( RFID can be embedded in the remote instead of Key for Aftermarket units )

In iCAT an RFID ( Radio freqency Identifier) is built in to the key and the rest of the immobilizer is more or less same as what Nippon ,Xenos , Minda or Autocop offer ( Sending Signal to ECU and unlocking after entering the code) Here instead of resetting or entering the code manually it is transmitted through RFID.

BTW M&M Nippon unit is exactly same as what is available as aftermarket unit do they provide this in all the models ( LX / SLE / M2DI ) ?
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Old 13th April 2009, 11:47   #205
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BTW M&M Nippon unit is exactly same as what is available as aftermarket unit do they provide this in all the models ( LX / SLE / M2DI ) ?
Very true on the RFID bit.

The M&M Nippon unit sucks. You have to be within 2 feet of the car to lock or unlock. If I had to do it, I would just lock the car using the key.

Anyone else having this *trouble*?
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Old 13th April 2009, 12:49   #206
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The M&M Nippon unit sucks. You have to be within 2 feet of the car to lock or unlock. If I had to do it, I would just lock the car using the key.

Anyone else having this *trouble*?
Red, I've used the remote from as far away as 150 feet. Works fine.
I think it might be to do with the position and orientation of the Nippon control unit in the car.
Mine was a retrofit by the dealer as the 4X4 does not come with a factory fitted system.
32 months on and I've not even changed the batteries in the remotes!

This pic will give some idea. Operated from the hotel room. The Scorpio nearest the bridge ...

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Last edited by anupmathur : 13th April 2009 at 12:52.
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Old 13th April 2009, 12:57   #207
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Oh my GOD! (both for the picture and the fact that your remote works across that distance)

Can other owners whose unit came fitted with the car testify to this please?

Last edited by Red Liner : 13th April 2009 at 13:01.
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Old 13th April 2009, 13:42   #208
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Red, I've used the remote from as far away as 150 feet. Works fine.
This pic will give some idea. Operated from the hotel room. The Scorpio nearest the bridge ...
Wow, that's impressive to say the least! What does Nippon claim as far as operating distance is concerned?
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Old 13th April 2009, 13:53   #209
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Wow, that's impressive to say the least! What does Nippon claim as far as operating distance is concerned?
I really don't know; I think they say nothing!

Here's the complete user Manual: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/suvs-m...ir-suv-77.html
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Old 13th April 2009, 17:17   #210
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Absolutely, I read that part too. So did you show them the manual?
no, i dint show them the manual, they dont know anything.

also, i did not get the security manual. i asked tham about it, they said it does not come in mHawks!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohnish View Post
Thanks for the info...but can you please explain briefly what this immobilizer thing does? Is it that when you lock the vehcile with the remote it gets 'armed' and then if someone tries breaking in / opening with the key...it shuts downthe vehicle? Then when you need to restart youley in the code?

if so, and you let the dealer to it, then its not really technically known only to you right? The chap who does it knows your code also?

Besides, I think the procedure is in the security manual, right?
not necassarily. the input for the new password will be entereded by you, not the chap. he will only follow the procedure through the ignition key.

the procedure is there in the security manual, that is, if you have got it.
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