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Old 11th February 2013, 10:07   #3241
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Okay Scorpio experts I need your help for my 2003 Non-CRDE Chain Drive Scorpio which has done about 96,500 kms till now.

Last week I had driven from New Delhi to Ambala for some work. On the way back a light Khaaas Khaaas sound coming at slow speeds 1000 - 1500 rpm around 40kmph. The sound comes when the Accelrator is pressed. It goes away when the Clutch is pressed or when the foot is removed from the accelrator. The noise was most prominent on the 3rd Gear, although it was the on the 2nd and the 4th gear too.
At higher speeds the sound could not be heard. The sound is something similar to a sound which comes when the exhaust leaks, but there is no problem with the exhaust. The sound seems to be coming from the area of the gear box.
There is absolutely no sound while idling, so it is from the gearbox / transmission.
There is no effect on performance. The pickup etc is all perfect.

Although the noise is hardly noticeable, and I know it is not a serious problem to get me stranded I still wanted to get it checked as I normally drive a lot on highways.

First I took my car to my experienced friendly neighborhood mechanic. He went under the car tightened a few nuts and bolts, mainly the jumping rod bolts. The noise was still there and he told me that it is probably from the gear box and I should take the scorpio to the Authorised Service Station.

Yesterday (Sunday) I took the car to Mahindra Service Center in New Delhi - Bhasin Motors where I get it serviced regularly. I have good relations with most of the SAs there as I am a 10 year old customer.

A test drive was done, and I was told that it is a noise from the Drive Shaft and it will have to be replaced. They mounted the Scorpio on the lift and ran the engine with the gears on, and confirmed it was a noise from the shaft. I need to point out that the Cross were replaced about 20,000 kms ago. My 2003 Scorpio has a Drive shaft which has 2 Cross. They had it in stock. The total cost was around 9500 and I told them to replace it as I am driving to Chandigarh again on Tuesday. The Scorpio was ready by 5.00 pm and I went to pick it up. When I test-drove the vehicle the noise was coming just as before. I pointed it to them they all also agreed, and told me that then the probability is that the noise is coming from the Gear Box, and to check it out thoroughly they needed the Scorpio for 2-3 days. Since I am driving to Chandigarh on tuesday I told them that I could leave the Scorpio for 3-5 days on Wednesday. In the meantime it was decided they they will put my Shaft back as installing the new shaft did not resolve the problem. They put my shaft back and I drove back without a problem. I was not charged anything.

When I discussed it with my mechanic and the Service Center people, we all think that we have to rule out all other causes for the noise before opening the gear box. If it is coming from the Gear box, it is probably some bearing in the gearbox as there is no problem at all in changing gears.

As a start today I plan to get the Gear Oil and Differential oil changed as it has not been done for a long time. My mechanic says that the noise might just go away after some time just after changing the oil.

My mechanic actually says that I should not worry about such things when I drive a diesel vehicle and it is going to do no harm. I am a person who really maintains his vehicles and I would not be at peace till I resolve this too.

If anybody can give me any ideas it will be really nice.

Styler.

Last edited by Styler : 11th February 2013 at 10:14.
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Old 11th February 2013, 15:07   #3242
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Styler View Post
Okay Scorpio experts I need your help for my 2003 Non-CRDE Chain Drive Scorpio which has done about 96,500 kms till now.

Last week I had driven from New Delhi to Ambala for some work. On the way back a light Khaaas Khaaas sound coming at slow speeds 1000 - 1500 rpm around 40kmph. The sound comes when the Accelrator is pressed. It goes away when the Clutch is pressed or when the foot is removed from the accelrator. The noise was most prominent on the 3rd Gear, although it was the on the 2nd and the 4th gear too.
At higher speeds the sound could not be heard. The sound is something similar to a sound which comes when the exhaust leaks, but there is no problem with the exhaust. The sound seems to be coming from the area of the gear box.
There is absolutely no sound while idling, so it is from the gearbox / transmission.
There is no effect on performance. The pickup etc is all perfect.

Although the noise is hardly noticeable, and I know it is not a serious problem to get me stranded I still wanted to get it checked as I normally drive a lot on highways.

First I took my car to my experienced friendly neighborhood mechanic. He went under the car tightened a few nuts and bolts, mainly the jumping rod bolts. The noise was still there and he told me that it is probably from the gear box and I should take the scorpio to the Authorised Service Station.

Yesterday (Sunday) I took the car to Mahindra Service Center in New Delhi - Bhasin Motors where I get it serviced regularly. I have good relations with most of the SAs there as I am a 10 year old customer.

A test drive was done, and I was told that it is a noise from the Drive Shaft and it will have to be replaced. They mounted the Scorpio on the lift and ran the engine with the gears on, and confirmed it was a noise from the shaft. I need to point out that the Cross were replaced about 20,000 kms ago. My 2003 Scorpio has a Drive shaft which has 2 Cross. They had it in stock. The total cost was around 9500 and I told them to replace it as I am driving to Chandigarh again on Tuesday. The Scorpio was ready by 5.00 pm and I went to pick it up. When I test-drove the vehicle the noise was coming just as before. I pointed it to them they all also agreed, and told me that then the probability is that the noise is coming from the Gear Box, and to check it out thoroughly they needed the Scorpio for 2-3 days. Since I am driving to Chandigarh on tuesday I told them that I could leave the Scorpio for 3-5 days on Wednesday. In the meantime it was decided they they will put my Shaft back as installing the new shaft did not resolve the problem. They put my shaft back and I drove back without a problem. I was not charged anything.

When I discussed it with my mechanic and the Service Center people, we all think that we have to rule out all other causes for the noise before opening the gear box. If it is coming from the Gear box, it is probably some bearing in the gearbox as there is no problem at all in changing gears.

As a start today I plan to get the Gear Oil and Differential oil changed as it has not been done for a long time. My mechanic says that the noise might just go away after some time just after changing the oil.

My mechanic actually says that I should not worry about such things when I drive a diesel vehicle and it is going to do no harm. I am a person who really maintains his vehicles and I would not be at peace till I resolve this too.

If anybody can give me any ideas it will be really nice.

Styler.
Are you sure it is not a wheel bearing noise?
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Old 11th February 2013, 15:41   #3243
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Styler View Post
If anybody can give me any ideas it will be really nice.

Styler.
It can be from gearbox.
About a year back,i had a similar problem in my Scorpio Mhawk,and it was making hissing sort of noises,but after some time,the vehicle refused to hold itself in 5th gear,and it would shift to neutral as i shifted to 5th.
Had to replace synchro and 5th gear kit.
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Old 11th February 2013, 16:01   #3244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
Are you sure it is not a wheel bearing noise?
Thanks HVK Sir, for your valuable advice. I also have a strong feeling that the noise can be from the wheel bearing. The sound is a cyclic sound (I mean rhymes with some rotation) Khach Khack Khack.....

Because all the mechanics just lift the Scorpio on a jack and just turn the wheel and check the play to check the wheel bearing, it is quite possible they miss it, and the wheel bearing makes a sound on load while driving.

In the meantime I got the gear and differential oil changed today anyways. Total cost of both 2 ltr oils was around 1000 and labor 300.

I think I will get the bearings opened and checked next.
My Scorpio has run around 1 lac kms on both original wheel bearings.
I recall I had got the Wheel Bearings Greesed in Reckong Peo in 2010 when my Scorpio had done about 75,000 kms.

HVK sir can you give me some idea about when the first Wheel Bearing replacement was done in your Scorpio ?

Thanks

Styler

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
It can be from gearbox.
About a year back,i had a similar problem in my Scorpio Mhawk,and it was making hissing sort of noises,but after some time,the vehicle refused to hold itself in 5th gear,and it would shift to neutral as i shifted to 5th.
Had to replace synchro and 5th gear kit.
Thanks Akshay. The difference is that till now my Scorpio has had no problem in Gear Shifting at all. And as the Gear Box overhaul is a major task we want to rule out all other things before touching it.

Styler

Last edited by moralfibre : 12th February 2013 at 10:50. Reason: Back to back posts.
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Old 11th February 2013, 16:07   #3245
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Styler View Post
Thanks HVK Sir, for your valuable advice. I also have a strong feeling that the noise can be from the wheel bearing. The sound is a cyclic sound (I mean rhymes with some rotation) Khach Khack Khack.....

Because all the mechanics just lift the Scorpio on a jack and just turn the wheel and check the play to check the wheel bearing, it is quite possible they miss it, and the wheel bearing makes a sound on load while driving.

In the meantime I got the gear and differential oil changed today anyways. Total cost of both 2 ltr oils was around 1000 and labor 300.

I think I will get the bearings opened and checked next.
My Scorpio has run around 1 lac kms on both original wheel bearings.
I recall I had got the Wheel Bearings Greesed in Reckong Peo in 2010 when my Scorpio had done about 75,000 kms.

HVK sir can you give me some idea about when the first Wheel Bearing replacement was done in your Scorpio ?

Thanks

Styler
I checked my records, looks to me that I have only 3 wheel bearings, one at 2 lakh kms, and 2 at 3 lakh kms. Scorpio wheel bearings work really long. I do greasing at least once every 50-60,000 kms.
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Old 11th February 2013, 21:20   #3246
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

At the outset, let me clarify that this post of mine is not promoting somebody or some product or services. I'm providing an information that I feel could be useful to the members.

My FNG (friendly neighbourhood garage) Rakesh of Rakesh Motors, Gurgaon has installed a decarbonising machine in his garage for both - Petrol & Diesel. Uses products from WURTH.

Today when I was there, an Alto came for the same. The engine was shuddering at idle and I said that maybe the foundations need to be replaced. But I was wrong.

After decarbonisation, there wash't even a vibration from the engine and the sound too had changed. A 10-12 minute job.

The charges for decarbonisation is as under:

Petrol - 1k
Diesel - 1.5k

Decarbonising machine

Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions-decarboniser1.jpg

WURTH solvents

Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions-wurthsolvent1.jpg

Alto being decarbonised

Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions-decarbonised1.jpg

Mods - if this thread doesn't belong here, then please move it to appropriate section
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Old 12th February 2013, 09:09   #3247
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Styler View Post
Okay Scorpio experts I need your help for my 2003 Non-CRDE Chain Drive Scorpio which has done about 96,500 kms till now.
Hi Styler,
To my mind, after reading the description one possibility arises - the Clutch Release Bearing. Please have that checked out first before they play around with the gear box. Anyway to check the CRB they'd have to lower the clutch bell and gear box. Get them to thoroughly check the CRB.
Secondly if it were the wheel bearing - wouldn't there be a constant humming sound or some such noise ?
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Old 12th February 2013, 09:52   #3248
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
My FNG (friendly neighbourhood garage) Rakesh of Rakesh Motors, Gurgaon has installed a decarbonising machine in his garage for both - Petrol & Diesel. Uses products from WURTH.

Today when I was there, an Alto came for the same. The engine was shuddering at idle and I said that maybe the foundations need to be replaced. But I was wrong.

After decarbonisation, there wash't even a vibration from the engine and the sound too had changed. A 10-12 minute job.

The charges for decarbonisation is as under:
Petrol - 1k
Diesel - 1.5k
I can vouch for this since I had this done for both my WagonR (cost me 500 Rs. back in 2006) and the Scorpio (1250 Rs. / 2012)

In both cases the first thought was to replace the enginemounts but the Service Center guys suggested this and it took care of the shuddering.
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Old 12th February 2013, 13:06   #3249
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Styler View Post
I plan to get the Gear Oil and Differential oil changed as it has not been done for a long time.
If anybody can give me any ideas it will be really nice.
Your mechanic is probably right. Use a gear oil with higher viscosity than you were using. Before refilling, have the GB flushed out with a light oil (static only, don't run the car), air blow to remove old oil and flushing oil residue, then fill up with gear oil.

The sound you describe, coming when on a particular gear and not accelerating, is likely to be synchroniser ring noise for that particular gear.
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Old 12th February 2013, 16:59   #3250
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
I checked my records, looks to me that I have only 3 wheel bearings, one at 2 lakh kms, and 2 at 3 lakh kms. Scorpio wheel bearings work really long. I do greasing at least once every 50-60,000 kms.
That's not bad at all. My Scorpio 4x4, Fox, has gone through four sets of wheel bearings in its 140,000 km use. First was at 20,000 km - when I had dramatic wheel bearing seizure on the front right wheel (apparently caused because some sand had got into the hub somehow, after dune bashing in Jaisalmer). Both sides were replaced. Next change was at 60,000 after a groaning noise developed in the bearings. Similar change again at 90,000, another bearing went bad. Then again at 130,000 when the brake caliper jammed and the resultant heat also seized the wheel bearing on the front left bearing! Again full set replaced (I kind of insist that all four bearings are changed as a set each time - it's an OCD thing, I suppose).

Seems, I can't seem to get my bearings right
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Old 13th February 2013, 09:46   #3251
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Hi,

I had got the Gear and Differential Oil Changed from Metaltech - Mahindra Service Center on Monday.
After that I came back from a 500 km day trip yesterday. No issues with the Scorpio at all except the noise. The noise persists at around 1500 rpm in 2nd 3rd and 4th gears.

Now I have the following plan of action
1. Get the Wheel Bearings Greased today. And if possible interchanged (Left and Right) The noise seems to be coming from the left so we will know if they switched.

2. If this does not reslove it, I will probably give the Scorpio to Bhasin Motors and tell them to get advice from Mahindra engineers as planned on the day the shaft was replaced and put back in. At this point I will tell them to check the Clutch Release bearing first.

Being a Computer mechanic myself I know all problems will eventually be resolved - it is just a matter of time

Thanks for all your help.

Styler.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Guderian View Post
Hi Styler,
To my mind, after reading the description one possibility arises - the Clutch Release Bearing. Please have that checked out first before they play around with the gear box. Anyway to check the CRB they'd have to lower the clutch bell and gear box. Get them to thoroughly check the CRB.
Secondly if it were the wheel bearing - wouldn't there be a constant humming sound or some such noise ?
Thanks Guderian, I will get that checked too. Infact I had the Clutch Plate, Preassure Plate and Clutch Release Bearing replaced in Leh in June 2012 when my Scorpio had done 90,000. The Clutch release bearing was not in Mahindra packaging. I was not sure about it. I had taken pictures at that time, but somehow I deleted those just a month ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Your mechanic is probably right. Use a gear oil with higher viscosity than you were using. Before refilling, have the GB flushed out with a light oil (static only, don't run the car), air blow to remove old oil and flushing oil residue, then fill up with gear oil.

The sound you describe, coming when on a particular gear and not accelerating, is likely to be synchroniser ring noise for that particular gear.
SS We can hear the noise on 2nd 3rd and 4th gear, but it is more prominent in 3rd.
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Old 13th February 2013, 10:18   #3252
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
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SS We can hear the noise on 2nd 3rd and 4th gear, but it is more prominent in 3rd.
But no noise in 1st/5th gear? CRB or wheel bearing won't be the culprit in that case. It's either a gearbox bearing or synchroniser ring noise. Also check the gearbox montings.
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Old 14th February 2013, 09:00   #3253
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
At the outset, let me clarify that this post of mine is not promoting somebody or some product or services. I'm providing an information that I feel could be useful to the members.

My FNG (friendly neighbourhood garage) Rakesh of Rakesh Motors, Gurgaon has installed a decarbonising machine in his garage for both - Petrol & Diesel. Uses products from WURTH.

Today when I was there, an Alto came for the same. The engine was shuddering at idle and I said that maybe the foundations need to be replaced. But I was wrong.

After decarbonisation, there wash't even a vibration from the engine and the sound too had changed. A 10-12 minute job.
Hi GD,
Can you share the contact numbers please. You can PM me or post here.
Thanks
Styler

Edit- Ok I got his number and already spoke to him - Google did the job.

Last edited by Styler : 14th February 2013 at 09:09.
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Old 15th February 2013, 12:32   #3254
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Update.
I went to Rakesh Motors and luckily met GD there.
Got the Scorpio decarbonized for Rs 1500 in 30 mins.
There was a little less smoke from the exhaust and a slight reduction in sound from the engine.
I took Rakesh for a test drive, for the noise which has been bugging me. He told me that it could well be the noise from the speedometer cable. The 2003 Non-CRDE Scorpios have the manual rotating speedometer cable.
He advised me to get that changed first, and he also advised me to get the engine and gear-box mounts changed.
I have got the speedometer cable changed, and will get the engine and mounts changed in a day or two. I havnt driven too much after the speedometer cable change. I will drive today and know if the noise is there.

Thanks for the Ideas people, and thanks GD for introducing me to Rakesh. It was great meeting you.

Regards
Styler
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Old 18th February 2013, 14:36   #3255
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Final update about my Scorpio.
I had already got the speedometer cable changed. Now I got the 3 mountings changed. The Scorpio has less vibrations now and runs smoother.

Also the main khach khach noise is gone after the speedometer cable change. It seems the noise was from the Speedometer Cable and the Authorised Workshop had even changed the drive shaft for it . I can just give them credit that they removed it later and did not charge me anything.

I am so relieved it was not the Gear Box.
So as the proverb goes "Khoda Pahaar, nikla Chuha"

One thing I am contemplating doing after completing 1 lac Kms is getting the injectors cleaned. Has anybody got the Injectors cleaned in a Scorpio. There is a thread on this where somebody had posted that there are 5 fine holes on each injector and a few of these do get clogged with time. With injector cleaning the Scorpio performs well, and there is lesser chance of starting problems at high altitudes around Leh. I am thinking of getting this done before the summer trip to the hills.
HVK Sir, have you ever had the injectors cleaned in your Scorpio ?


Styler

And as this problem gets resolved a speeding Hatch scraped the bumper of my Camry yesterday. Now I need to get that fixed. These cars and gadgets will never leave us in peace it seems

Last edited by Styler : 18th February 2013 at 14:40.
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