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Old 11th March 2013, 08:54   #3301
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Default Re: Steering Problem

Scorpio, pre-crde, 2005 - 338,000 kms old:

New steering column
New ball socket joints
Suspension components changed recently
Alignment OK, but tyres wearing out in outer
Power steering bolt checked, found OK

When I turn the steering, I hear a click either way.
When I disassembled the steering column, both the UJs were fine.
Without the steering column, steering is smooth.
When reconnected, click reappears.

On checking the rack from the outside - after diassembling the steering column - no problems visible.
No leakages of power steering oil.
Power steering works fine.

Steering responses perfect. No gaps, no slippages.

When I drive at speeds over 70-80 kmph or over bumps, steering starts vibrating. Feels as though something is hitting against each other. No sound though.

One suspicion is the pinion in the steering rack is worn out.

What is the diagnosis?
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Old 11th March 2013, 09:23   #3302
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Default Re: Steering Problem

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Alignment OK, but tyres wearing out in outer
Front tyres or rear? Or all? Check camber readings.

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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
When I turn the steering, I hear a click either way.
When I disassembled the steering column, both the UJs were fine.
Without the steering column, steering is smooth.
When reconnected, click reappears.
What is the diagnosis?
Worn teeth of rack and pinion. Replace the rack and pinion as a set. Vibrations in steering also related to this.
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Old 11th March 2013, 09:45   #3303
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Default Re: Steering Problem

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Front tyres or rear? Or all? Check camber readings.


Worn teeth of rack and pinion. Replace the rack and pinion as a set. Vibrations in steering also related to this.
That looks like the conclusion. But before we get to that, any other possibilities?
Apparently, the assembly costs 18K!
What are the risks - steering failure? Any breakages possible?
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Old 11th March 2013, 09:56   #3304
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What are the risks - steering failure? Any breakages possible?
Steering won't fail (as in, there won't be complete loss of steering control), but tyre wear and steering vibrations will continue. Unnecessarily stress out the other linkages too.

18k at ASS or outside?
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Old 11th March 2013, 19:37   #3305
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

A worn pinion will also damage the rack. Unless there is a back lash compensation (i doubt) a loose/work rak/pinion will have play in the stearing.
. disconnect the steering column from the pinion
. disconnect the linkages from rack
. Now check if there is a play by rotating the pinion. If there is a play the pinion would have a dead zone before the rack moves.

As there is a power steering, it may be masking the rack&pinion steering play. In a non power steering car the play is easily detected.
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Old 11th March 2013, 19:59   #3306
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

A bit OT, but wanted to know who's the OEM for the steering unit in Scorpio ? Is it made by RANE or SONA ?
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Old 11th March 2013, 22:11   #3307
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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A worn pinion will also damage the rack. Unless there is a back lash compensation (i doubt) a loose/work rak/pinion will have play in the stearing.
. disconnect the steering column from the pinion
. disconnect the linkages from rack
. Now check if there is a play by rotating the pinion. If there is a play the pinion would have a dead zone before the rack moves.

As there is a power steering, it may be masking the rack&pinion steering play. In a non power steering car the play is easily detected.
Will try that.
Any other possibilities I should rule out?

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A bit OT, but wanted to know who's the OEM for the steering unit in Scorpio ? Is it made by RANE or SONA ?
I am not sure, but I think it is Sona.
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Old 11th March 2013, 23:15   #3308
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Steering responses perfect. No gaps, no slippages.

When I drive at speeds over 70-80 kmph or over bumps, steering starts vibrating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post

Worn teeth of rack and pinion. Replace the rack and pinion as a set. Vibrations in steering also related to this.
SST, why do you think it is the gear? See the part in bold above.

Was talking to HVK the other day, and this got me thinking. If it was the gear, won't it cause problems over a wider speed range? Why only at this particular condition.

Spike
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Old 12th March 2013, 06:54   #3309
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Default Re: Steering Problem

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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
.....
When I disassembled the steering column, both the UJs were fine.
Without the steering column, steering is smooth.
When reconnected, click reappears.
....
Do check the universal joints for play. A small play could result in 'click' sound.
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Old 12th March 2013, 08:36   #3310
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Default Re: Steering Problem

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Do check the universal joints for play. A small play could result in 'click' sound.
That is what I first thought.
The steering column is not very old (<6 months old).
I had it dismantled, checked each of the 2 UJs -they were fine (no play, oscillating properly), so that is ruled out.
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Old 12th March 2013, 09:24   #3311
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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SST, why do you think it is the gear? See the part in bold above.
If it was the gear, won't it cause problems over a wider speed range? Why only at this particular condition.
IMO, some of the play in the gear would be damped out by the hydraulics, esp at slower speeds. No noise/rattles, no alignment/balancing issues, new suspension, new ball joints (and I am presuming the tie rod ends were changed too at the same time), new steering column & UJs, yet the steering shimmies at/above a certain speed and makes a single clicking noise on turning either way. Play in gear is what comes to mind as the remaining alternative.

What else to suspect? Impending failure of steering pump? Can cause clicking noises on turning (had seen this once - but that was a continuous series of clicks rather than a single click), but I can't figure out whether it'll cause steering shimmy at speed or over rough roads.

Steering pump? STEERING PUMP??? I can imagine HVK already clutching his heart...

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 12th March 2013 at 09:25.
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Old 13th March 2013, 16:49   #3312
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Folks,
My 76k done 2005 crde 2.6 has the foll issues as per my mechanic,


1.A/c gas has drained out-Will vaccum and recharge else says cooling coil may have conked? He checked but there air pressure present.

2.Brake pedal goes in 1 inch but brakes on pumping.
MC is suspected says kit may not be avbl.
Cost he says is approx 4.5k as KPN is in short supply...did not follow.

Pls advice.

cheers
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Old 13th March 2013, 20:35   #3313
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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2.Brake pedal goes in 1 inch but brakes on pumping.
MC is suspected says kit may not be avbl.
Cost he says is approx 4.5k as KPN is in short supply...did not follow.

Pls advice.

cheers
Have rear brake cylinders checked for leaks. Earlier, you could change only the "minor caliper kit" meaning you could replace the rubbers inside the cylinder, but of late I find that M&M wants to sell only the full cylinder.
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Old 14th March 2013, 09:37   #3314
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Can be retro-fitted to all Refresh models of Scorpio. There is also a particle filter that M&M has introduced for the fresh air vent below the windscreen. You can retro-fit that too.
Enquired at Koncept NOIDA for both filters

- no one was aware of any fresh-air vent filter
- while they admitted that a mesh type cabin/AC filter used to come pre-fitted, they told me that the 'provision' to fit one in newer Sle variants is no longer there and the filter will need to be cut for it to be fitted.

Any idea if these are available in open market? Btw, mine is a January 2013 manufactured Sle.
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Old 14th March 2013, 09:47   #3315
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...they told me that the 'provision' to fit one in newer Sle variants is no longer there and the filter will need to be cut for it to be fitted.

Any idea if these are available in open market? Btw, mine is a January 2013 manufactured Sle.
I am afraid I am not aware of changes to the 2013 SLE variants' cabin filter design changes. You could PM gd1418 and inquire about this. There is a M&M spares dealer in Gurgaon near Sadar Bazar, but I don't know the exact address. Again, gd1418 should be able to provide it.
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