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Old 13th October 2014, 00:39   #3886
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
Looks like choked injectors?
Spot on Sir. Has to be that.

97_Octane,
Chocked / Clogged Injector -> Abnormal Rail Pressure -> All sorts of alarms in the ECM

The turbo story does seem a little too far fetched. A problematic turbo would not show these symptoms since at idle time the turbo has little role to play. Typically the curve attaining turbo boost occurs circa. 1450 RPM.
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Old 13th October 2014, 12:35   #3887
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by 97_Octane View Post
Folks, my Scorpio CRDe, upon starting, is revving on its own. And by revving I mean the rpm is increasing and decreasing on its own, as though there is a human foot controlling the accelerator pedal. I thought it might go after it moves for a few feet. Then the car stopped and refused to start. After about 10 minutes it starts again and the routine continues. What could be the issue?

I'm gonna tow it on a flatbed to my trusty mechanic. He sent a person to my doorstep and that guy had a look. He said there might be an issue with the turbo. I however don't think it's am issue with the turbo because the car was running fine just the previous night. No loss of power whatsoever. The mahindra guys say it might be because of contaminated diesel. I did fill diesel in a bunk and thus problem started after that refill.

Please help. Totally confused and tensed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
Looks like choked injectors?
Diesel Contaminated with water may well be the cause.

I think first thing to do would be to get the diesel tank emptied out, diesel filters cleaned and see if behaves.

If the problem persists then try to get the injectors cleaned.

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Old 13th October 2014, 13:23   #3888
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by Styler View Post
Diesel Contaminated with water may well be the cause.

I think first thing to do would be to get the diesel tank emptied out, diesel filters cleaned and see if behaves.

If the problem persists then try to get the injectors cleaned.

Styler
Hi. for my ref, what could be the approx cost of injector cleaning ?

in this particular case, before the injector cleaning phase, can adding Abro / STP like additive to diesel be one of troubleshooting method ?

thanks.
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Old 13th October 2014, 13:51   #3889
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by pcpranav View Post
Hi. for my ref, what could be the approx cost of injector cleaning ?

in this particular case, before the injector cleaning phase, can adding Abro / STP like additive to diesel be one of troubleshooting method ?

thanks.

I had checked here in Delhi . I was quoted around Rs 2000 and 3 hrs time for Injector cleaning of my Non-Crde Scorpio.

I was advised that one should go in for Injector Cleaning only when it really necessary. Sometimes problems do arise after injectors are removed and put back. The Injector cleaning shop owner and a mechanic conferred that my Scorpio is just fine and does not need it so I did not get it done.

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Old 13th October 2014, 15:59   #3890
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Mine is a relatively minor issue compared with some of the contents of this thread, but I'm wondering if there is an easy solution or its something I just have to live with. Basically the issue is with the wiper sweep. The right hand side wiper misses out a portion at the top center of the windshield on its return sweep. This causes a small rivulet of water to trickle down and eventually dry up. Not sure if I'm explaining it clearly enough, but it's hard to take a picture of. I'm wondering whether the answer is longer wiper blades or some adjustment.
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Old 13th October 2014, 16:58   #3891
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by ajitkommini View Post
Mine is a relatively minor issue compared with some of the contents of this thread, but I'm wondering if there is an easy solution or its something I just have to live with. Basically the issue is with the wiper sweep. The right hand side wiper misses out a portion at the top center of the windshield on its return sweep. This causes a small rivulet of water to trickle down and eventually dry up. Not sure if I'm explaining it clearly enough, but it's hard to take a picture of. I'm wondering whether the answer is longer wiper blades or some adjustment.
Dear Ajit
Here is a DIY fix for your problem. Go to any good BOSCH dealer and procure the BOSCH bracket-less wiper blades. The sizes if I remember correctly come in a set of 14 and 16 or something (The dealer has a list of which sets have what size blades inside, try the package they have for the Honda Civic). For solving this problem that you're experiencing, fix the longer of the two blades on the non driver side. Bracket less wipers have been known to give better performance, although for a higher cost. The BOSCH guy here is a close friend of mine so I paid 750/- for my set.
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Old 13th October 2014, 20:32   #3892
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Akshay, let me clarify.
What I said has less to do with specific problems (which is a matter that can be discussed ad nauseum) and more to do with the attitude of our desi manufacturers.
The way our countrymen treat us is not the way I want to be treated! Sad to say that other makers treat you a lot better.
You need artifices like 'setting' with a specific person at a specific workshop to get anything akin to decent service that ought to be a right of yours!
Sorry, I hold my opinion.
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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
Want to experience how incompetent Mahindra & Mahindra is - go visit Sutaria Auto in Belgaum - lessons on how not to run a car company...
....
One of the best cars one can own is my Scorpio - but I wish like mobile number portability, I could switch over to another operator - not M&M!!! If I had a choice, I would buy my Scorpio all over again - nothing else will do! The biggest myth that was bust during this episode was of Anand Mahindra personally acting upon Twitter messages is all hog wash. We never got any response from his office, that removes one of the criteria that I have quoted often as a strong reason to buy a M&M (i.e. the serious engagement of top management with customers' problems).
Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
...
It is becoming a struggle to get to the workshop floor at Sri Durga, Delhi. They invoke 'security'! Just a lame excuse to prevent the customer from seeing incompetents at work? Though I would say that they do have some sharp mechanics, but you should know the ones, else God save your car!
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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
The sheer arrogance of M&M ASC folks is indescribable. They treat customers either like paid-drivers (chauffeurs) or as idiotic-owners. It is just a cloak to hid either incompetence and ineptness in organising work on the workshop floor and tardiness in completing even the simplest of tasks. The longer they keep the car inside - that is their motto, it seems.
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
If they haven't woken up in three decades they are obviously in a prolonged coma! They'll get wiped out like Hindustan Motors (Ambassador) and most others in the manufacturing sector in our great nation.
It takes a foreigner to understand what the Indian customer desires!
And I made the mistake of taking my car to Sri Durga for my scheduled 3rd service.

Here is my ordeal.
Dealer : Sri Durga, Mayapuri.
Date: 11-Oct-2014

Took an appointment for 11-Oct, 9 am, 2 days in advance.
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Lost my way a little and tried calling their landline. No response till 9:12.
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Anyway looked around myself and found it. Was in the gates by 9:15.

What a sight greets me - A single service advisor making job cards! He nonchalantly informs me to wait as there are 4 vehicles already in the queue. Staff starts coming in slowly but no one bothers to start making job cards to get things moving. Mine was finally opened at 10:10. >50 mins after the appointment time. Score guys! I was expressed my displeasure to the lady at the front desk, but nothing much she could do - except going back to giving appointments over the phone.

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They need to add a disclaimer to this sign - "only for customers - extended waiting!, our staff still works only 10 to 5pm."

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Oh and they don't do 5-wheel rotation as instructed in the owner's manual but just 4-wheel rotation. I requested them to follow the procedure as laid out in the manual for me. They obliged.

Met a fellow bhpian there and we got talking and somehow I managed to hang around till 11, at which point I left for some work in the nearby market. I returned around 12:30pm.

At 1:15pm, I ask for a status from a different lady at the front desk, only to be told with a stern face - it's lunch time, "ask" after 1:30pm. Trying to keep calm, I go back to waiting.

At 1:30pm, the service advisor walks me through the floor to the car which is up on a lift - all wheels removed - apparently balanced. He informs me, now alignment and washing are pending. I look at my watch and optimistically hope to be back at home by 3pm to join the festivities at home (was Karwa Chauth that day).

At 2:30pm, I again look for the service advisor to get an update. A peek into the workshop reveals the car is still up on the lift. I request him yet again to speed things up.

At 3:30pm, --same as above--

At 4:00pm, me and another gentleman there have ran out of patience and decide to speak to the service manager. A very well behaved and professional gentleman that he was, he immediately took the job card details and asked for specifics about what was holding the cars.

I don't know if his intervention helped or not. Finally, got to see my vehicle out of the workshop only around 5pm.

Wait, it ain't over yet.

Shoddy washing -
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I could remove this with just my fingers, wonder why their 'pressure washer' wasn't able to. Maybe it was on a break too like the majority of their workforce.

Can't even fit wheelcaps properly!!
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This mirror was almost snatched off - had to direct the person on how to fix it back. Still wondering how/why they fiddled with it.
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And then - inspite of being a free service, a labour charge added to my final bill. Point it out to the SA, who runs back in to get the correction done. And does not emerge until I send the guard, who prevents me from entering the premises, to fetch him back.


At this point, I have been here for 9 hours, without lunch, surviving on 1 cup of coffee since morning, chasing the SA every hour to get updates and finally once the vehicle is delivered, pointing out the deficiencies in the job done. I mean what's the freaking point of taking a car to an authorized place if we have to put up with such an experience.

The service manager, during our talk with him, explained that this generally does not happen and they are a little short on manpower today - hence the delay. I don't know what to say to this. For starters, tell the lady happily doling out appointments from your front desk to go slow and give out limited appointments.

Did fill out a feedback form and asked the service manager too, if it was just a namesake - to which he responded it isn't and that I will soon here from *someone* from *somewhere*. After reading HVK's experience, when even the topman doesn't bother, why will the others!

Sharing it here for the benefit of fellow members, so that they don't waste their precious day for a petty thing like a scheduled service. Ya, blame Maruti and Toyota in the family to make the schedule service look like petty affairs.

Anyway, please brace yourself for a nightmarish experience if you want to get your vehicle serviced at Sri Durga Auto, Mayapuri.
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Old 13th October 2014, 20:54   #3893
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
Looks like choked injectors?
I didn't know choked injectors can lead to this problem. Will ask my mechanic to check the injectors as well. Thanks a ton sir

The car was dropped off at the garage today morning. After multiple (vain) attempts at cranking the engine, my mech said that there is no diesel flow in the pipes. Just to be sure, he recommended I get an onboard diagnosis done. Contacted a private guy and he came with his scanner (or whatever it is called). First diagnosis showed 6 error codes. All were minor and were related to parts replacement that was carried out a couple of days ago. After he cleared the error codes and ran the diagnosis again, there was only one error code: P1194. It's description is as follows:

"Max Negative Rail Pressure Deviation with metering unit on lower limit is exceeded."

I am not very sure what this means but both the Software person and the mechanic said its a problem with the fuel pump (or motor.Can't recollect), so they will have to remove it and inspect it. I have left the car at the garage, hoping this problem is rectified and my car is back to normal.

Sir, could you please tell me what this error code means? In lay man terms?
Thanks again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by axlerod View Post
Spot on Sir. Has to be that.

97_Octane,
Chocked / Clogged Injector -> Abnormal Rail Pressure -> All sorts of alarms in the ECM

The turbo story does seem a little too far fetched. A problematic turbo would not show these symptoms since at idle time the turbo has little role to play. Typically the curve attaining turbo boost occurs circa. 1450 RPM.
Thanks for the reply! Yes there is no problem with the turbo currently, save for some oil traces present at some parts. They agreed the turbo has nothing to do with this problem in my case. They will be inspecting it anyways,just to be on the safer side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Styler View Post
Diesel Contaminated with water may well be the cause.

I think first thing to do would be to get the diesel tank emptied out, diesel filters cleaned and see if behaves.

If the problem persists then try to get the injectors cleaned.

Styler
I was going to do what you suggested, but the mechanics said there doesn't seem to be any contamination. Only after this it was decided to get a diagnosis done.
Thanks!
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Old 13th October 2014, 22:56   #3894
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97_Octane View Post
"Max Negative Rail Pressure Deviation with metering unit on lower limit is exceeded."

Thanks for the reply! Yes there is no problem with the turbo currently, save for some oil traces present at some parts. They agreed the turbo has nothing to do with this problem in my case. They will be inspecting it anyways,just to be on the safer side.
As expected. Abnormal rail pressure. It's happening because of contamination of your fuel system. First thing to suspect is the injectors because the pump mechanism on Common Rail systems is more hardy than the injectors.

As for the turbo, an oil deposit on the sludge return line leading back into the sump is NORMAL for the TEL turbos. The oil that you see is used to lubricate the thrust bearing (made of brass) for the CHS. It's like a very tiny stream of oil is dropped onto the thrust bearing from the top and it gravitates back into the sump after doing it's job.
It's advised NOT to tamper with the turbocharger as the CHS assembly is a very sensitive piece of machinery. After even minor handling the assembly needs to be 'balanced' by placing it on a high speed machine, which is not available with most local garages OR most authorised service centres for that matter. In the event of the CHS going kaput, the only options would be
1) To live with a turbo charger which is less than perfect and lacks the sweet sounding 'whistle' which engine enthusiasts have come to love
2) To get the turbo charger replaced with a new turbo charger which is high speed balanced by the manufacturer. The downside to this alternative is that this is a costly replacement (upwards of 30 thousand rupees probably)
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Old 14th October 2014, 10:28   #3895
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
And I made the mistake of taking my car to Sri Durga for my scheduled 3rd service.


Anyway, please brace yourself for a nightmarish experience if you want to get your vehicle serviced at Sri Durga Auto, Mayapuri.
Hi

I think the experience at all Mahindra Authorized service stations is as bad if not worse.
The worst I have been to is Sterling in Gurgaon.
Once I went to there to get a simple AC cutout switch replaced.
They kept me waiting for 2 hrs. Nobody had the time to listen.
After 2 hrs and shuffling between the Reception area and the Store a few times I was told the part is not available. When I asked them if they can order it for me, they simply said no.

Styler
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Old 14th October 2014, 11:11   #3896
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
Looks like choked injectors?
Or a choked air filter. Just take the air filter off and then observe. If the condition persists, then it is choked injectors, else the air filter.
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Old 17th October 2014, 00:23   #3897
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97_Octane View Post
After he cleared the error codes and ran the diagnosis again, there was only one error code: P1194. It's description is as follows:

"Max Negative Rail Pressure Deviation with metering unit on lower limit is exceeded."
Quote:
Originally Posted by axlerod View Post
As expected. Abnormal rail pressure. It's happening because of contamination of your fuel system. First thing to suspect is the injectors because the pump mechanism on Common Rail systems is more hardy than the injectors.
FYI: regarding the various error codes:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post3459358 (Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions)
the Scorpio EMS Diagnostic Manual at above link is NOT available now. I have uploaded it here : http://www.megafileupload.com/en/fil...le-lx-pdf.html

regards,
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Old 17th October 2014, 10:35   #3898
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

- URGENT HELP -

Since last evening I am facing a peculiar problem with the brakes.

At low speeds (less then 20 Km/h) or with no accelerator the brake paddle is becoming almost inactive after a couple of pressings (there too it cannot be pressed to more than 1/4 of the paddle).

I tested it early morning on a lone back road at speeds above 20 Kmh it is behaving normally and sudden hard braking at higher speeds is working and ABS is also getting activated.

I am trying to take the car to the A.S.S. tomorrow, but in the process of thinking since the A.S.S. is about 10 kms. from my place and the route either goes through a busy expressway or alternatively through narrow roads with dense traffic.

Anything I can check on my own before I call a mechanic home or get the car transported to the A.S.S.

There is no leakage of brake fluid and the brake fluid it on the max mark in the container.

Last edited by m_upreti : 17th October 2014 at 10:50.
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Old 18th October 2014, 01:26   #3899
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by m_upreti View Post
- URGENT HELP -

Since last evening I am facing a peculiar problem with the brakes.

At low speeds (less then 20 Km/h) or with no accelerator the brake paddle is becoming almost inactive after a couple of pressings (there too it cannot be pressed to more than 1/4 of the paddle).
The vacuum for the brake booster is developed by the 'alternator'. There is a vacuum pump attached to the back side of the alternator. Thereafter there is a plastic tube running to the vacuum assist cylinder which is married to the hydraulic fluid bottle where one fills the brake fluid. Check this tubing and the general condition of the said vacuum pump behind the alternator.

I suspect that the pump is not developing proper vacuum at low revs or else there is vacuum leak somewhere in the system which is causing it to grossly be ineffective at low speeds.

Even in this case, since you confirm that there is NO fluid leakage, you can use the brakes as usual. It's just that the peddle pressure is going to be greatly increased. So pressing down hard on the peddle shall actuate the brakes.
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Old 18th October 2014, 11:12   #3900
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by axlerod View Post
I suspect that the pump is not developing proper vacuum at low revs or else there is vacuum leak somewhere in the system which is causing it to grossly be ineffective at low speeds.
Thanks axlerod, you are correct the brakes a functioning properly only the pressing pressure is increased. However, in neutral with foot off the accelerator the brake paddle is getting completely jammed as if the vehicle is in ignition off mode. Couple of presses on the accelerator activate the paddle to a few cms.

Have taken an appointment at the A.S.S. for Wednesday, however will check the stuff as per your suggestions tomorrow.
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