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Old 16th February 2010, 10:43   #1006
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I ve had 2 dicey experiences with my 2.6 Crde's standard Non ABS brakes.


Till then, I need to know is there anything that I can do to the current brakes to strengthen their stopping power?
Well both your skidding experience are on dry tarmac so that makes it little unusual, Did your vehice behaved in same manner from Day 1 or you are observing this pattern recently ? You can not obviously retrofit ABS but I think this is not normal on non ABS also specially when incident 2 happened on dry outer ring road which has good surface at just 70 kmph.

You need to check if the break pressure is equal on both sides. Is there an LSPV valve in Scorpio which needs to be adjusted ?
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Old 16th February 2010, 11:02   #1007
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yes this weekend I will check if the Brakes are correctly adjusted across all 4 wheels.

this is not normal for me - just 2 isolated incidents - because I do not usually resort to hard braking of this kind, unless situations such as these crop up and it is absolutely unavoidable. Usually drive with a lot of concentration and anticipation rather than reactive driving.

I dont know about this LSPV valve - please enlighten me as to what it is.

I dont think (much to my regret) that one can retro-fit ABS onto a Scorp.

Any other suggestions would be very welcome.

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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Well both your skidding experience are on dry tarmac so that makes it little unusual, Did your vehice behaved in same manner from Day 1 or you are observing this pattern recently ? You can not obviously retrofit ABS but I think this is not normal on non ABS also specially when incident 2 happened on dry outer ring road which has good surface at just 70 kmph.

You need to check if the break pressure is equal on both sides. Is there an LSPV valve in Scorpio which needs to be adjusted ?
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Old 16th February 2010, 11:20   #1008
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LSPV valve means load sensing proportioning valve. it basically adjusts the brake pressure applied to the front & rear wheels based on the load on the front & rear wheels resp.
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Old 16th February 2010, 11:24   #1009
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@amit:

Vehicles can skid on dry tarmac if the wheels lock. I have personally experienced this on my maruthi 800 when doing a high speed (and in hindsight very dangerous maneuver).

@Shankar:

The main reason I stayed away from the pre mhawd 4WD Scorpio was that they did not offer the ABS in SLX 4WD range. I would buy a vehicle without air bags if there was no choice, but ABS is an absolutely mandatory requirement for me. Even my 2002 Hyundai Santro Automatic has ABS and it has helped in the city numerous times.

Retrofitting ABS into your scorp maybe a difficult job, but worth asking the ***. The problem is that if not done properly you maybe worse off than without the ABS.

Scorpio does have a LSV
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Old 16th February 2010, 11:29   #1010
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thanks 4x4 - yes dry skids are eminently possible - especially when one finds some loose gravel on a dry surface and even when one brakes hard, causing the wheels to lock, while doing higher speeds. The only way I know to deal with it is to steer into the dry skid, thereby coming out of it.

I m not sure however that I want to try and retrofit the ABS system.

thanks Raj
I will cross check this Load Sensing Valve business and if required get it checked and re-adjusted wherever necessary and provided the A** can do it for me properly.

Anyway, give it another year or two and I think I will be ready to upgrade this Scorp to a more modern vehicle with all the required safety features!

No point taking chances on these things, with the ever increasing highway speeds and ever decreasing available reaction times!

will figure this over the weekend at the garage and see what happens and then share back.

cheers


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@amit:

Vehicles can skid on dry tarmac if the wheels lock. I have personally experienced this on my maruthi 800 when doing a high speed (and in hindsight very dangerous maneuver).

@Shankar:

The main reason I stayed away from the pre mhawd 4WD Scorpio was that they did not offer the ABS in SLX 4WD range. I would buy a vehicle without air bags if there was no choice, but ABS is an absolutely mandatory requirement for me. Even my 2002 Hyundai Santro Automatic has ABS and it has helped in the city numerous times.

Retrofitting ABS into your scorp maybe a difficult job, but worth asking the ***. The problem is that if not done properly you maybe worse off than without the ABS.

Scorpio does have a LSV
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Old 16th February 2010, 12:11   #1011
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
I rammed the gear into 2nd straight from 5th and slammed the brakes on at the same time.
Slamming the vehicle into 2nd, from 4th, turning the wheel left to avoid the Indica + Van and jamming the brakes at the same time,
Hi Shankar, I am happy you escaped injury on both occasions!

Downshifting gears from a high speed gave you the additional traction for slowing down rapidly.

But on the other hand, since your Scorp is a 2WD, I assume the rapid downshifting would have imposed additional braking force on the rear wheels alone, leading to the skids on each occasion.
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Old 16th February 2010, 14:29   #1012
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....
Till then, I need to know is there anything that I can do to the current brakes to strengthen their stopping power?
Shankar, I dare say what you need as an imperative is a change in your driving style!
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Old 16th February 2010, 14:46   #1013
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You will also get a fuel saver kit that can be fitted on to any vehicle especially for Scorpio too. It turns off the engine during more idle time and starts the engine once you depress the accelerator. Sounds good.
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Old 16th February 2010, 15:02   #1014
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@Shankar sir, you require ABS on the beast. I don't have a Scorpio with me but I am a follower of this thread every day and every post that is made in this particular thread. Be careful while riding sir.
OT: I don't understand when people can give disc brakes for i20 why not for Scorpio having 120bhp. Can anyone please enlighten me if there are any reason for the same?.
@Yogesh, it is called micro hybrid which is present in latest mHawk Scorpio's
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Old 16th February 2010, 16:17   #1015
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@anupmathur
@mooza
@shishir

Thanks!

Yes, I know those two occasions were highly dangerous but frankly just consider this;

On occasion 1, when one is on a highway or a super-highway like the Bangalore - Mysore road, one does typically drive at around 100-110 which is considered normal. I generally maintain speeds between 90-110 on that highway.

In cases like this one simply cannot budget for the sudden appearance of dogs etc in the middle of the road, especially if the beast darts out suddenly right in front of one - while travelling at those speeds even a 100-150 metres passes very very quickly, so Im glad the dog got off with just a cut ear.

I know a lot of people say - its either the dogs life or your life so just hit the dog and keep going - but I cannot possibly do that as I love animals and will always try my best to avoid impact if it is possible.

As far as the city incident last week is concerned, yes I agree in part, knowing Bangalore traffic and the alarming propensity that people here have, for doing the unexpected and almost always completely without warning.

I ought not to have been doing 70 kmph on the city stretch, however clear the road may have been, because the time available for reaction is severely limited.

The facts are;
1. The Indica was quite far ahead of me on the same side of the road in the fast lane (about 150-200 metres)
2.The Biker started overtaking me on my left side almost at the exact same moment that the Maruti Van appeared from the other side of the divided road (on the right side), zooming across that side, so that he could cross the break in the divider quickly and do his U Turn. Note that the Maruti Van was on the left side of his road and may have decided to make a break for the divider at the last minute, in order to make his U turn.
3.And to top it off, at almost the exact same moment Mr Indica (who was in front of me) decided to use the same break in the divider for a U Turn. No indicator hence no warning at all.

There was absolutely no choice for me but to cut gears and slam brakes.

Yes also to the fact that the Scorpio 2.6 Crde which develops 115 BHP does need ABS and Airbags. And I do understand very well that the entire engine braking effect on the RWD could have added to the skid, which is why Fulltime 4WD with variable power being shunted to each wheel, would be absolutely lovely.

Perhaps all these facts, coupled with the two incidents themselves make a sufficient case for me to consider upgrading to a vehicle with better, more modern safety features sooner rather than later!
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Old 17th February 2010, 11:11   #1016
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hello anup sir.

yes, the engine mounts will be changed.
the fuel pump is a MICO unit & they say it will be replaced or repaired only we say so.

the timing pulley is changed because it has come loose & it may anytime pop out during running causing a breakdown. the pulley is making a different rattling kind of sound since it is loose.
hello friends, with reference to the above issue in my old scorpio-

today we have decided to get the timing kit replaced for around Rs. 3000 from a local but reputed garage!

however, the fuel pump & injector service & the engine mount changing will be done at the A.S.S.

Hope its not a bad decision.
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Old 17th February 2010, 11:15   #1017
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I checked the Scorp at India Garage last evening.

The Service Mechanic there test drove the vehicle for a few kilometres at varying speeds and fiddled a lot with the brakes + the hand brake.

His verdict is that one of the Brakes on one of the Four wheels (probably the front left side) has not been adjusted properly after the last service - therefore apparently it is "catching" now and then. He said this most probably is the cause of the dry skid and "pulling to the left" problem which I described in my earlier posts.

Am having the vehicle ramped up and the brakes cleaned + readjusted - will be doing this tomorrow since it involves a full day at the garage owing to the service load they are facing daily.
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Old 17th February 2010, 11:16   #1018
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
however, the fuel pump & injector service & the engine mount changing will be done at the A.S.S.

Hope its not a bad decision.
Fuel Pump and injector service are best done at the MICO service centres which are all over the place. In any case, the ASC also sends it to them only, they do not have the expertise and tools to do it themselves. Will save you time and maybe some cost also.

Why open up the fuel pump? In the old non-crde Scorpios, fuel pumps are very complex and they are best left untouched unless you have any serious problems. In my instance, thanks to a worn-out O ring, I have some diesel leakage at the head of the fuel pump, but I have preferred not to open it up - even the MICO guys said so, why upset the calibration, etc., when my pump's performance is not affected anyway.
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Old 17th February 2010, 11:20   #1019
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Fuel Pump and injector service are best done at the MICO service centres which are all over the place. In any case, the ASC also sends it to them only, they do not have the expertise and tools to do it themselves. Will save you time and maybe some cost also.

Why open up the fuel pump? In the old non-crde Scorpios, fuel pumps are very complex and they are best left untouched unless you have any serious problems. In my instance, thanks to a worn-out O ring, I have some diesel leakage at the head of the fuel pump, but I have preferred not to open it up - even the MICO guys said so, why upset the calibration, etc., when my pump's performance is not affected anyway.
yes, i will be giving it to the A.S.S (i need to change the mounts too) who in turn will be giving it to MICO. i have left it on them to take the decision on whether the fuel pump needs to be opened or not. i am more bothered about the car's vibration & lack of acceleration.
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Old 17th February 2010, 12:56   #1020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
I checked the Scorp at India Garage last evening.

The Service Mechanic there test drove the vehicle for a few kilometres at varying speeds and fiddled a lot with the brakes + the hand brake.

His verdict is that one of the Brakes on one of the Four wheels (probably the front left side) has not been adjusted properly after the last service - therefore apparently it is "catching" now
Confirms my view Shankar also ask mechanic to check the LSPV valve for distribution between front and back otherwise you may need to spend one more day if real culprit is not the break catching.

Folks Skidding on dry tarmac at 70 -100 kmph should never be considered normal even for vehicles without ABS. I peiodically test my breaks ( specially after service) on empty road and I am able to stop in straight line from 120 kmph on surfaced empty road , I think brand of 2 tonn Iron block does not matter much.
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