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Old 13th March 2010, 12:32   #1051
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Post Vacum Booster

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Originally Posted by m_upreti View Post
Are you sure of this ? I have checked in my VLX the Brakes do not work with engine off, after a couple of pumps the pedal stops responding.

There should be something for this, imagine a situation if the engine shuts due to any reason on a downhill descent or during high speeds
The check valve in the vacum booster ensures that you have 2-3 power assisted brakes even after the engine is shut off (it is designed this way), even after engine shut off you must be able able to apply brakes without any brake assist (brake pedal effort goes higher), if this is not happening either your check valve or the booster may be faulty.

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Old 13th March 2010, 12:49   #1052
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Originally Posted by m_upreti View Post
Are you sure of this ? ...
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Originally Posted by EssYouWe View Post
They stop working after a few pumps...
This is what I read some time back, which had caught me by surprise, since my understanding (and experience) was that hydraulic brakes needs the engine running and without engine power, it is dead. A few (say 2~3) pump will cause the brake to harden up and ineffective.

Let me search a bit and will post the link to the post.

EDIT: There you go, Spike's note. Straight from the horses mouth. But Spike, isn't this a feature that is there with almost all vehicles? Or does the Scorpio have an extra safety feature?

Last edited by HappyWheels : 13th March 2010 at 12:53.
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Old 13th March 2010, 13:13   #1053
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Post Funda of check valve

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Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
EDIT: There you go, Spike's note. Straight from the horses mouth. But Spike, isn't this a feature that is there with almost all vehicles? Or does the Scorpio have an extra safety feature?
This is how the brakes are designed, it is a standard feature on all automobile brakes working on Vacum assist. I am attaching a pic for more info.

Spike
Attached Thumbnails
Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions-check-valve.jpg  


Last edited by SPIKE ARRESTOR : 13th March 2010 at 13:14.
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Old 13th March 2010, 13:47   #1054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
But will work for may be 3-4 pumps, after which there would be no action.
I agree with this too, based on my personal experience in my 2004 Scorp.

I had switched off the engine while inching down a steep ramp at a multilevel parking complex. While braking was easy for a couple of metres of inching down, I couldn't apply enough braking force thereafter. Since the handbrake was not fully effective on this very steep ramp, I had to quickly start the engine.

So, as Spikearrestor has quoted, looks like only a couple of power assist stops are possible if the engine goes dead! The only option left in an emergency is to engage the handbrake and quickly downshift the gears, I guess. Thanks adzegeek for bringing up this point, this had been bothering me too for a while after my above experience!

Last edited by mooza : 13th March 2010 at 13:58.
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Old 15th March 2010, 12:23   #1055
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I like the word bobbing. Yes, it is very much in the older scorpios with the leaf springs. To be honest the newer ones too have it.

My FNG suggested something to me that made a lot of sense. Ever since the bobbing and the side-by-side roll has considerably reduced, plus the ride feels better.

Originally, the leaf spring set of the Scorpio consists of 5 leaves. While the support gap between 1 & 2, 3 & 4 and 4 & 5 leaves is ok and load bearing, the distance between the 2 & 3 leaves is more, thus exerting extra strain on leaf No. 2. And mostly it is the leaf #:2 that snaps.

FNG suggested me to add one more leaf between 2 & 3 to increase support. I did that and after that undertook a 3000 Km trip to Leh & back. My scorp held steady on hairpin bends, jumped over boulders without bobbing and the rear seat passengers didn't bang their head on the roof. The attached picture will explain this better.

Leaf #:6 is the added leaf:

Attachment 263899

Hi,
Did exactly what you mentioned.
What a difference has made to the ride quality!!
Thanx a million.

rgds
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Old 15th March 2010, 12:30   #1056
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Pradeep, what gd recommended and you did, makes lots of sense. I must also try it sometime, except that the ASC will not do it, so I have to locate a FNG and source a good quality leaf. BTW, what size did you use? Did you cut another leaf to reduce the length?
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Old 15th March 2010, 13:20   #1057
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Default Scorpio - Brakes & Steering Woes

Hi,

I have a 2007(dec-end) Slx CRDE Scorpio (done about 50K in 1.5yrs), which has been a constant torture, since the day that it was purchased.

In the first week itself, it had an issue with the clutch, where a large spring would fall off every few 100 KMS, as well as squeaking sounds from the brakes as well as sounds of metal scraping metal when the steering was turned fully.

Over time, I have tried to involve many Mahindra corporate people, who despite being nice and committed, have not been able to solve a few of the problems (list includes Mr Sanjoy Chatterjee - Region head for services, Mr Dharmesh - Zonal Head for services, right upto Mr Sanjoy Gupta - VP Customer Services).

I was able to get the clutch problem corrected, Still with regular work required on it every two services, where the A.S.S. add a white plastic dongle, required to remove a squeaking sound that the pedal starts emanating.

As for the other issues, next in line was the sound from the steering system. It was as if there are loose peices of metal rubbing against each other (somethimes, I thought that the lower part of the body had rusted and was rubbing against the tyres or something)
After many failed attempts, where the A.S.S. personnel again tried adding rubber dongles somewhere behind the tyres (cost about Rs18), I had the front right & left shoulders changed. These had developed deep dents in their bodies, which I was told, were formed when a protrusion in the assembly rubs against them (had taken pics, will try to locate and upload the same here as well). Now, I have been advised not to turn the steering the full way, going forward. Not to mention, this is making the drive difficult, as I have to spend a few additional minutes every day getting into & out of my parking space at office and home.

The longest lasting problem is with the brakes screeching. Although I was always agreeable to some level of noise from the tyres, especially when braking softly in traffic, but the sound levels are such that drivers of any car travelling alongside me, with windows rolled up, end up looking at my car, to see what is making so much noise.

I should mention there that I am using M&M standard alloys, which I got at the time of purchase of the vehicle from the dealer himself (Sterling Motors - Gurgaon).

Things have been so bad that I am a regular at the workshop at least twice a month, getting the tyres cleaned, which seems to work only for a week or two.
Alongwith regular cleaning, I have had the brake pads as well as disks changed recently. As a matter of fact, the noise levels increased after getting this done, followed by numerous visits to the workshop again (where we tried everything from adding some graphite-like grease, which they said they had forgotten to add as well as many other cleaning sessions)

Recently, as I was about to complete 2 years with the vehicle, I had again tried to contact the M&M corporate people to raise this issue and stated that in case they are confident that they can solve this problem, I am willing to give it one more try, else would like to dispose off this vehicle, what with the additional 13K for extended warranty. After speaking to the regional service head, I was assured that the same would be corrected and the workshop was instructed to call personnel from Brakes India Ltd to take a look at the problem. Not much help there either, as they were in a more 'R&D' mode - as they kept telling me that they did not know how much time it would take, that they needed to spend a lot of days with the vehicle etc.
Anyway, at the end of a long day, the maximum I got out of them was the experiment to remove the dust guard, which is placed behind the tyres and driving the vehicle for 20-30 kms. Again, as the tyres had been removed, and the dust plate out, the vehicle did not make much noise for most of the journey. They were confident that it was just mal-alignment of this plate.
At almost the end of the journey, the noises started creeping back, which although pointed out by me, were brushed off by them, asking me to do a few days of driving. Also, it left me with a feelingof being cheated, as less than a month back, my brakes (disk & pads) had been replaced, stating that this was the main cause of the noise.

Now, the sounds are all back and no one seems to have any idea of what to do. The A.S.S. simply state that they have tried everything and have nothing more to offer!!

The latest is that M&M corporate personnel have shared this problem with their 'Plant People' and want me to give my car to them, against which I would be given a Xylo to drive, till they rectify this problem.

BTW, in all this to & fro, somewhere my tyres were also rotated (front to back & diagonal), which has resulted in the steering wobbling and the car careening to the right). To really rub it in, the A.S.S. has had me visit 3 times already, just for this to be corrected, but have not been able to solve even this simple alignment issue.

I am writing in to enquire if there are any M&M senior officials associated with this forum, who can help me raise this issue at the correct level so that the problem can be sorted out.

Regards,
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Old 15th March 2010, 13:44   #1058
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your plight sounds perfectly miserable.
perhaps you should write / PM to Mr Behram Dhabhar, a Senior member of the Forum, who might be able to help/ suggest what you should do. He is an expert on Mahindra vehicles.
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Old 15th March 2010, 15:01   #1059
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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
Pradeep, what gd recommended and you did, makes lots of sense. I must also try it sometime, except that the ASC will not do it, so I have to locate a FNG and source a good quality leaf. BTW, what size did you use? Did you cut another leaf to reduce the length?

Hi,
The guy added another leaf on each side 41.5" approx as shown in the image (# 6).
The only difference was my guy suggested not to add the washers and plates in between as they create a small gap and make deposition of mud easier. He should me the amount of mud which had gone in between leaves and was rusting the plates.
Definitely worth the effort and money,wish had done this earlier.
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Old 15th March 2010, 15:21   #1060
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Originally Posted by PRADEEP KUMAR View Post
The only difference was my guy suggested not to add the washers and plates in between as they create a small gap and make deposition of mud easier. He should me the amount of mud which had gone in between leaves and was rusting the plates.
I don't know whether you are removing washers only around the additional spring, but my experience has been that when my ASC carelessly forgot to put the washers, I had a record 5 leaves break almost simultaneously probably because of the extra pressure and that the metal and metal grated against each other.
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Old 15th March 2010, 15:26   #1061
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Quite a long list of issues. PM Spike Arrestor and he should be able to provide you inputs as well. If that doesnt work, we always have Dhabhar Behram who is like the God of all M&M vehicles.
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Old 15th March 2010, 16:19   #1062
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I have also had braking problems in my Scorpio 2005 (229,000 kms old), and some of the things I did were, apart from replacing brake pads:
- changed booster
- changed worn out discs
- "cut" discs when they were grooved by friction with the brake pad
- changed liners in the rear
- changed brake cylinder bodies in the rear, this was a serious problem affecting efficiency of brakes

Since your problem is with brakes as such (screeching, etc), I won't mention that changing the tyres/ tinkering with air pressure also made a big difference.

After several trials and tribulations, of late, after changing my wheel discs for the second time, my braking seems to be better than earlier.

Having said that, brakes are the worst part of the Scorpio.
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Old 15th March 2010, 17:11   #1063
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Tch, tch, HVK. With 2.3L Kms under your belt on Venky 3, I thought you would provide some solace to Rajat. Instead you've scared him more..
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Old 15th March 2010, 17:13   #1064
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Tch, tch, HVK. With 2.3L Kms under your belt on Venky 3, I thought you would provide some solace to Rajat. Instead you've scared him more..
Not at all, with some tweaking, even the Scorpio brakes can be made to work better
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Old 15th March 2010, 18:23   #1065
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You are welcome...

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Originally Posted by PRADEEP KUMAR View Post
Hi,
Did exactly what you mentioned.
What a difference has made to the ride quality!!
Thanx a million.

rgds
The washers should not be removed. They act as levers, thus taking the load and the jump.

Just follow a truck side-by-side and observe how the rear leaf springs behave on craters & jumps. You'll understand what I'm saying.

Not putting the washers will result in grating of metals as HVK said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRADEEP KUMAR View Post
Hi,
The guy added another leaf on each side 41.5" approx as shown in the image (# 6).
The only difference was my guy suggested not to add the washers and plates in between as they create a small gap and make deposition of mud easier. He should me the amount of mud which had gone in between leaves and was rusting the plates.
Definitely worth the effort and money,wish had done this earlier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
I don't know whether you are removing washers only around the additional spring, but my experience has been that when my ASC carelessly forgot to put the washers, I had a record 5 leaves break almost simultaneously probably because of the extra pressure and that the metal and metal grated against each other.

Last edited by gd1418 : 15th March 2010 at 18:25.
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