Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th May 2010, 00:35   #1231
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 3,388
Thanked: 1,844 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
...
The best case in such an eventuality is to use the hand brakes, with the risk of a skid, rather than the muscle work out.

To all: Please do not try out what Sutripta has mentioned unless you are in a very safe environment. No "empty" road will do.
I think I should take remedial English classes, because I think I said do not try this on any road. With engine stopped, one also loses steering assist.

Normal brakes, even if the booster has failed, will be better than the hand brake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
An ABS wiring short-circuit rather than a circuit break? Where the ABS sensors refuse to let the hydraulic circuit activate?

That's right. This is certainly an extremely confusing dilemma, but equally important that the diagnosis be proper.
The idea (at its simplest) is to design the SYSTEM in such a way that ANY single point failure takes one to a safe mode. And I am sure far more than that has been done. SS, next when you are in Cal, we can discuss.

Regards
Sutripta
Sutripta is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2010, 11:15   #1232
Distinguished - BHPian
 
SS-Traveller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 6,527
Thanked: 10,288 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Well if it is short from the logic point of view it is a constant slip detected, ABS module should apply a pulsating breaking at more then 40 times in a min, rather then not actuating the hydraulic circuit at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
If the ABS is at fault, it will either be pulsating all the time (due to wrong signals being received) or do nothing; either way the brakes should work.
An ABS short circuit would perhaps be like braking with a normal ABS on loose sand. The ABS goes into overdrive and chatters away, but in reality there in no reduction in vehicle speed. Anshuman can you please tell us if the ABS chatter could be felt through the brake pedal?

And if the ABS is not the culprit, why would the brakes function normally as Anshuman reports now, when the ABS system is disconnected? With a booster/MC failure, the brakes would be just as bad with or without ABS being connected. Did the M.A.S.S. do anything more than just disconnect the ABS?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
SS, next when you are in Cal, we can discuss.
Will look forward to it!
SS-Traveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2010, 11:31   #1233
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,026
Thanked: 370 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
And if the ABS is not the culprit, why would the brakes function normally as Anshuman reports now, when the ABS system is disconnected? With a booster/MC failure, the brakes would be just as bad with or without ABS being connected. Did the M.A.S.S. do anything more than just disconnect the ABS?
Only anshuman can answer but my best guess is that they corrected the hydraulic circuit , It can not be just by disconnecting ABS , And if that is the case as I already said there is a serious problem with logic of ABS module.

Usually such catastrophic problems occur when A.S.S forget to put back washer or tighten the nuts after break bleeding and then they try to pin blame elsewhere to save themselves so this ABS think may be just a natak on their part.
amitk26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2010, 11:51   #1234
Distinguished - BHPian
 
shankar.balan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 8,017
Thanked: 5,179 Times
Infractions: 0/2 (9)
Default

if you switch off the engine the steering will become like a LEAD WEIGHT.
i wouldnt try this at all.

plus with your brakes failed how can you take it to an empty road or other?

my suggestion to stop the car would always be to bang the warning lights on, shift gears to the lowest possible one (1st) with the foot completely off the accelerator, sit on the horn to show the world one is in trouble and as one slows down and coasts towards the left side of the road/ verge, to pull the handbrake while depressing the clutch at the same time and then shut off when one reaches a dead halt.

of course this is ok in theory but not easy to execute when travelling at higher speeds on highways when one is in the fast lane.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Take your Scorpio to say 40 Kmph. Switch off engine. Lightly pump brakes a couple of times. Now try stopping the vehicle.

A clarification to my earlier post: "Fail in safe mode" is not the same as "failsafe".

@Anshuman
Without a full diagnosis (one which stands up to reason, corroborated by physical evidence) and corrective action, the fault is likely to recur. So please exercise due diligence!

Also try and get the A.S.S. to give in writing that the ABS unit is at fault, and then forward a copy to the ABS manufacturer. I am not saying this in the spirit of "lets stick it to the manufacturers" but in the hope that the problem will be diagnosed properly. I have very little faith in Mahindra's A.S.S.s technical competence. Just trying sincerely, and with a smile is sometimes not good enough.

I must add once again, IMHO, it is not the ABS unit. However, if it is, if the ABS unit can fail this way, it should be highlighted in every possible forum till the manufacturer takes action. It is simply too important, too dangerous.

Regards
Sutripta


Regards
Sutripta
shankar.balan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2010, 21:22   #1235
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 3,388
Thanked: 1,844 Times
Default

^^^^^
I don't know why what I posted is being misinterpreted. So let me quote from my earlier post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
...
(I would suggest this experiment, but it is simply too dangerous on open roads, deserted or not. Take your Scorpio to say 40 Kmph. Switch off engine. Lightly pump brakes a couple of times. Now try stopping the vehicle.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
I think I should take remedial English classes, because I think I said do not try this on any road. With engine stopped, one also loses steering assist.
And the purpose of the "thought experiment" was to highlight what a vehicle feels like when a brake booster fails. Not to drive a vehicle with failed brakes, and then do experiments.

Regards
Sutripta
Sutripta is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2010, 21:42   #1236
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 3,848
Thanked: 121 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
^^^^^
I don't know why what I posted is being misinterpreted. So let me quote from my earlier post...
Sutripta,

Simple reason, you have been "Tharoor'ed"!
HappyWheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2010, 07:37   #1237
Senior - BHPian
 
mooza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,033
Thanked: 226 Times
Default

Hi to all, requesting some help regarding my clutch !

My clutch shudders a bit, whenever I start moving in 1st gear (under load). I feel this phenomenon increases a little after running the beast for an hour. Once the Scorp gets moving, there are absolutely no problems. For the 1st gear, I am managing by revving the engine a bit more (1500 rpm) to get moving. It has been this way for the past couple of months.

During my 95k servicing yesterday, my ASC told me that the clutch would need replacement at the next servicing, but I could use it for the next 5000 kms safely, provided I do not use it too often (??!! )

The ASC informed me that it would cost 11500 Rs. for the repairs. My worry is, I am due for a couple of trips to Mangalore in June (through ghats). Should I spend the 11.5 k and get it replaced next month, or will there be some juice still left in the clutch to pull it through till the next servicing?
Requesting Scorpio owners to share some thoughts on this

Last edited by mooza : 10th May 2010 at 07:46.
mooza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2010, 10:30   #1238
Senior - BHPian
 
Red Liner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,935
Thanked: 600 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooza View Post
Hi to all, requesting some help regarding my clutch !

My clutch shudders a bit, whenever I start moving in 1st gear (under load). I feel this phenomenon increases a little after running the beast for an hour. Once the Scorp gets moving, there are absolutely no problems. For the 1st gear, I am managing by revving the engine a bit more (1500 rpm) to get moving. It has been this way for the past couple of months.

During my 95k servicing yesterday, my ASC told me that the clutch would need replacement at the next servicing, but I could use it for the next 5000 kms safely, provided I do not use it too often (??!! )

The ASC informed me that it would cost 11500 Rs. for the repairs. My worry is, I am due for a couple of trips to Mangalore in June (through ghats). Should I spend the 11.5 k and get it replaced next month, or will there be some juice still left in the clutch to pull it through till the next servicing?
Requesting Scorpio owners to share some thoughts on this
Change the clutch assy - pressure plates et all. You dont want to be stuck with a clutch burn out when doing Shiradi.
Red Liner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2010, 10:33   #1239
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 196
Thanked: 40 Times
Default

Hi! to all, I got my Scorpio MHawk SLE in March'10.

The experiance so far has been good with the vehicle, except the wobbling of the front tyres at speeds between 110 to 130kms/hr.

This issue is taking away all the pleasure while driving on highways.

I have got the alignment and balancing of all the wheels done, however the problem persists.

Request the Scorpio owners to give inputs to resolve this issue.

Thanks.

NB: I am yet to get the first free service done.

Last edited by zen91 : 10th May 2010 at 10:34. Reason: additions
zen91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2010, 10:43   #1240
BHPian
 
triedeverything's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 492
Thanked: 162 Times
Default

Has any Vlx owner had his automatic wipers stop when the rain is very high? This was the first time the car was out in the rain. It was working well until it started pouring cats and dogs. The wiper just stopped.

I am unable to recreate the issue. When I took it to the ***, they sprayed the windshield with high pressure water to stimulate the rain and it just worked. Do I ignore the incident as a one off thing or is there something else that I can do?

I also want the VAS system to work. Anyone who has changed their HU and added an amp and different speakers, tell me about how you got the audio warnings to continue to work...I'm all ears ;0
triedeverything is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2010, 11:57   #1241
Senior - BHPian
 
mooza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,033
Thanked: 226 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Change the clutch assy - pressure plates et all. You dont want to be stuck with a clutch burn out when doing Shiradi.
Thanks, Red Liner. I only hope my ASC's quote of 11.5k was including the pressure plates and the works !
I will do the necessary replacements within a couple of days, so that the beast settles down well before the long drives
mooza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2010, 12:39   #1242
Senior - BHPian
 
n.devdath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,737
Thanked: 1,310 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooza View Post
Thanks, Red Liner. I only hope my ASC's quote of 11.5k was including the pressure plates and the works !
I will do the necessary replacements within a couple of days, so that the beast settles down well before the long drives
Feel free to let me know in case you need any help with the ***. Know a few good people at SKS.
n.devdath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2010, 13:35   #1243
Senior - BHPian
 
raj_5004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dubai/Mumbai
Posts: 5,065
Thanked: 1,989 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by triedeverything View Post
I also want the VAS system to work. Anyone who has changed their HU and added an amp and different speakers, tell me about how you got the audio warnings to continue to work...I'm all ears ;0
i have changed the HU, speakers and added an amp. my car's VAS is working. i have just connected the speakers to the original wiring.
raj_5004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2010, 14:49   #1244
Senior - BHPian
 
getsurya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,359
Thanked: 918 Times
Default

Quote:
I have got the alignment and balancing of all the wheels done, however the problem persists.
Hi Zen,

Congratulations(once again) and welcome to the Elite Scorpers Club!!

About the problem you mentioned as above, seems to be odd and rare that Scorpio between 110-130kmph should wobble.

Have you checked the air pressure to 31 psi?

Take your car to ASC and have them thoroughly check the Brake distribution system & ABS.

Also, have all the tyres stripped open from the steel rims and check for any tyre/rim aberrations.

Happy Motoring!
getsurya is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2010, 14:58   #1245
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: CHENNAI
Posts: 386
Thanked: 27 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zen91 View Post
Hi! to all, I got my Scorpio MHawk SLE in March'10.

The experiance so far has been good with the vehicle, except the wobbling of the front tyres at speeds between 110 to 130kms/hr.

This issue is taking away all the pleasure while driving on highways.

I have got the alignment and balancing of all the wheels done, however the problem persists.

Request the Scorpio owners to give inputs to resolve this issue.

Thanks.

NB: I am yet to get the first free service done.

Hi,
Do you run on alloys or stock rim?
What tyres do you run on?
If you have JK then the problem mostly will be bcos of them.
I had the same probs when i upgraded to alloys on the stock JK tyres.No amount of alingnment and balancing will resolve it.

tnx
PRADEEP KUMAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mahindra Thar : Issues & Solutions Rajith Technical Stuff 420 11th April 2017 22:21
Accent / Viva CRDi: Issues & Solutions manishk83 Technical Stuff 61 13th April 2015 14:00
Child safety issues and Solutions sreenidhibr Street Experiences 55 29th April 2013 18:18


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 22:45.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks