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Old 12th May 2010, 08:39   #1261
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Default engine suddenly cut off once this morning

Funny thing this morning en route work. While taking a turn and changing to second, the engine suddenly cut off. I didnt stall the car by being in the wrong gear or anything like that.

Was in third gear going at 40kmph. Approached the left turn and cut to second exactly as I normally do. As I depressed the clutch the engine just cut off.

Of course I switched the AC off and re-started it at which time it fired immediately.

At the very next traffic light I switched off fully, then re-started it and it fired perfectly.

My Scorpio has done 28500 kms on the clock and it is exactly 2 years and one month old now.

Again after parking in my office I switched off the engine after the normal idling. then on re-starting it fired perfectly.

Now the vehicle is parked and I wont be starting it till I do home in the evening so lets see what happens.

Could this be the first signs of the battery weakening?
Perhaps the battery is due for a change?
Any input on this would be most welcome.

Last edited by shankar.balan : 12th May 2010 at 08:40.
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Old 12th May 2010, 09:12   #1262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Funny thing this morning en route work. While taking a turn and changing to second, the engine suddenly cut off. I didnt stall the car by being in the wrong gear or anything like that.
I would not attribute this to a battery issue since it has always fired up at the first crank post that shut off on the move. It sounds like one of those occurrences which happen once in a rare while with no significance whatsoever.

Lets observe the vehicle for a few more days and see if it repeats itself.
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Old 12th May 2010, 09:42   #1263
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yes, could be, but to satisfy myself im anyway going to have the battery checked this evening - by having them insert that syringe like thing which detects the electrolyte levels etc. also will ask them to check condition of the cells.
in my experience until now, with my earlier Gypsy(s), Esteem, Bolero and more recently our Swift, the OEM battery typically lasts about 2 years to 3 years or anywhere in between. They are typically maintenance free batteries but I am anyway in the habit of having them checked and topped up where required with electrolyte, atleast once every 2 -3 months or so.

Its very difficult to predict exactly when the battery will kick the bucket but going by experience, it can be anytime after one completes 2 years.

lets see, as you said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
I would not attribute this to a battery issue since it has always fired up at the first crank post that shut off on the move. It sounds like one of those occurrences which happen once in a rare while with no significance whatsoever.

Lets observe the vehicle for a few more days and see if it repeats itself.
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Old 12th May 2010, 09:56   #1264
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Shankar , Battery can never be culprit in stalling a running vehicle. Reason is simple your alternator is working and giving you 13+ Volts where as your battery is at constant 12 V. As current flows from higher to lower potential your alternator will be loaded. Once Alternator is overloaded for some peak requirement then its Voltage will dip and current will be drawn from battery.

It is quite possible that you may find battery is weak but still that can not cause the problem you observed. If this problem reoccurs and all mechanical reasons are isolated then you need to check the wiring instead.
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Old 12th May 2010, 10:02   #1265
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thanks for this input.
however, I forgot to mention this, but in the past, whenever I ve observed this similar engine cut off problem in several of my earlier cars, it has invariably come down to one or two of the battery cells having been weakened with use.
Thats why I thought it could be the battery.

However, its certainly worth checking what you say, for greater peace of mind.
Also the Scorp is due for a good servicing/ cleanup job so I think I will get that done without delay.

Cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Shankar , Battery can never be culprit in stalling a running vehicle. Reason is simple your alternator is working and giving you 13+ Volts where as your battery is at constant 12 V. As current flows from higher to lower potential your alternator will be loaded. Once Alternator is overloaded for some peak requirement then its Voltage will dip and current will be drawn from battery.

It is quite possible that you may find battery is weak but still that can not cause the problem you observed. If this problem reoccurs and all mechanical reasons are isolated then you need to check the wiring instead.
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Old 12th May 2010, 11:31   #1266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Shankar , Battery can never be culprit in stalling a running vehicle. Reason is simple your alternator is working and giving you 13+ Volts where as your battery is at constant 12 V. As current flows from higher to lower potential your alternator will be loaded. Once Alternator is overloaded for some peak requirement then its Voltage will dip and current will be drawn from battery
@Amit, I do not know if I am missing something here, but do diesel engines of the Scorpio (or other diesel vehicles) need even an alternator to keep running, since I thought they are compression ignition / fuel injection engines ? Hoping someone can clarify my doubt.

@Shankar, I feel the engine cut off could be due to a clogged fuel or air filter, unless there is some problem with the fuel pump or injectors, which seems a bit unlikely, considering your beast is fairly new. Or highly contaminated diesel, maybe ?
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Old 12th May 2010, 11:41   #1267
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ref your first point I dont know the answer

clogged fuel and air filter highly unlikely - both are less than 5 months old - changed in the last service.
highly contaminated diesel also is unlikely as I ve been filling up Diesel in just one or two bunks in Bangalore and have been doing so over the last few years.
plus this was a completely isolated incident in the Scorpio - first time this morning - not a consistently recurring phenomenon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooza View Post
@Amit, I do not know if I am missing something here, but do diesel engines of the Scorpio (or other diesel vehicles) need even an alternator to keep running, since I thought they are compression ignition / fuel injection engines ? Hoping someone can clarify my doubt.

@Shankar, I feel the engine cut off could be due to a clogged fuel or air filter, unless there is some problem with the fuel pump or injectors, which seems a bit unlikely, considering your beast is fairly new. Or highly contaminated diesel, maybe ?
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Old 12th May 2010, 15:29   #1268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooza View Post
@Amit, I do not know if I am missing something here, but do diesel engines of the Scorpio (or other diesel vehicles) need even an alternator to keep running, since I thought they are compression ignition / fuel injection engines ? Hoping someone can clarify my doubt.
Well Modern Common Rail engines need ECU and host of sensors and all of them consume some current, also high pressure fuel pump is electrical I think ( Experts can clarify if the fuel pump is mechanical or not).
Even for non CRDe engine , Injector operation is controlled by ECU.

Probably for old school diesel once started probably no alternator was required.

PS : In my Safari if I remove plastic engine cover , I can see wires running to each of the Injector.
The amount of fuel to be injected and timing is controlled by ECU. So I think with out ECU getting power from alternator and injectors getting power supply to operate, engine can not work.

Last edited by amitk26 : 12th May 2010 at 15:35.
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Old 12th May 2010, 20:56   #1269
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Mooza, any ECU controlled vehicle needs the battery/alternator to keep the engine running.

@Amit: Did the old Scorpios (non-CRDe) have an ECU? I don't think so!
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Old 12th May 2010, 21:33   #1270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Mooza, any ECU controlled vehicle needs the battery/alternator to keep the engine running.

@Amit: Did the old Scorpios (non-CRDe) have an ECU? I don't think so!
I checked my Scorpio manuals again (non CRDE), there is no mention of ECU in the specs. Timing belts are referred to often. Are these used for timing the fuel injection cycles, in sync with the engine operation cycles, I wonder.

@Amit and Anupmathur, thanks for the inputs on the CRDE, cleared my misconceptions

I replaced the clutch assembly today (clutch plate, pressure plate, slave cylinder). Drove for some 20 kms after this. The clutch feels very soft and easy to operate now, with improved pick up. I am glad I did this, since the removed plate had worn off almost completely. I am now set to take the beast through winding ghats for a couple of family trips.

Cost : Rs. 10,300/- including labour.
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Old 13th May 2010, 16:04   #1271
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Hi, the wobbling can be due to any of the below mentioned reasons:

1. Mis-aligned Hubs
2. Mis-aligned tyres (have the alignment rechecked)
3. Faulty engine bushes.

etc. etc.

Check for any uneven wear on the tyres specially the edges.

My VLX also had this problem right from the second free service (Dec '08), I first reported this in Jan '09, M&M is still trying to find the root cause & fix .

Quote:
Originally Posted by zen91 View Post
Hi! to all, I got my Scorpio MHawk SLE in March'10.
The experiance so far has been good with the vehicle, except the wobbling of the front tyres at speeds between 110 to 130kms/hr.
This issue is taking away all the pleasure while driving on highways.
I have got the alignment and balancing of all the wheels done, however the problem persists.
Request the Scorpio owners to give inputs to resolve this issue.
Thanks.
NB: I am yet to get the first free service done.

Last edited by m_upreti : 13th May 2010 at 16:11.
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Old 14th May 2010, 16:33   #1272
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
i have changed the HU, speakers and added an amp. my car's VAS is working. i have just connected the speakers to the original wiring.
Raj,

Can you describe how the wiring was done? What is the make of your HU? The output from the OE HU goes directly to the speakers. So how did you use the original wiring to go to the amp before it connects to the speakers?

The Vas has a separate set of wires that need to go into the HU. There is no slot on my HU for the coupler. They actually suggested I buy another HU and connect the wires coming from the VAS (that are currently not connected to anything behind the HU.)
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Old 14th May 2010, 22:16   #1273
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I am not too much into ICE installation buddy, but i am PMing you my installer's contact detail.

btw, my HU is pioneer make.
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Old 15th May 2010, 00:34   #1274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triedeverything View Post
Raj,

So how did you use the original wiring to go to the amp before it connects to the speakers?
Thats the million $ question. Install an amp and you gotto figure out how the connections are to be made. I spent quite a bit of time trying to find out how to get the VAS working and no luck.
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Old 15th May 2010, 08:19   #1275
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RJ, Triedeverything,

Even my ride has a JBL components in the front and the VAS works! We didn not touch the OEM wiring but connected to the same after wiring through the amps.

From HU, all wiring lands up at two amps(4 channels each) from where it gets distributed to front and rear. Front components and rear ovals with a sub. Thats the model!

One suggestion is- please ensure you only use good brands like SCOCHE or others for any wiring or amp cables. This is for our own safety.
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