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Old 15th July 2010, 12:39   #2656
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This is something that i have just not been able to figure out - i see hairline scratches, lines on the surface which are impossible to see with a normal vision but against the light that falls on the surface putting your eye at the level of the surface, one can see. Now i know that a few were there when i got my new car and saw them the very first day itself, but i have no idea how to get them off. I think the only way is to have a proper polish- which will need a Rotary buffer. In my earlier car, there were many of these and even after the 3M treatment, they got hidden, but not completely gone.
Has anyone faced this and done away with them?Swirls are easy to see and can be removed, not sure why these come and how can we get rid of them.
I have been using california duster and micro vv carefully, can we get them when wax application?
Another question- how do you ensure a re-usable wax applicator? I have a foam applicator, and a micro applicator, but its a c tough task to get the wax out of them and re-use. I hope that am not introducing these lines due to the applicator not being proper enough!
This is THE only thing that still bugs me - still unable to figure out about these lines that remain!

I too had observed like super fine hairline scratches but about 3-4mm in length when I look at the paint from real close under a street light!
(under a microscope they looked like a really tiny shallow 'flood channel' like thing)

under normal lighting they aren't visible at all! I think If they had come from waxing, then they should've been circular of along the direction of the applicator pad.

I use totally clean MF cloth but I think microscopic dust particles can possibly cause this. Its these lines when they increase in number constitute a swirl!

(so it can be said that they are the starting of a swirl formation)
and swirls only appear as circular! ideally they are multiple lines in haphazard direction but the sharp angles that they reflect light at leads us to believe that they are circular(if the light used to view the defect is circular)

Something that I observed while waxing is that if you wax in non controlled environment(basically, an open area), dust tends to settle down on the not-yet waxed parts of the panel you're working on!

and after waxing 2-3 panels, I can see very minor dust collection on the periphery of the sponge applicator pad!(this was even though I was dusting off the panel repeatedly before working on that particular part)

I think, this might too be responsible for the hairline scratches!

I now want to work under controlled conditions(kind of like a clean room) and see whether the results turn out to be dramatic as opposed to waxing/working in the open!



I use a liquid detergent for my applicator pads and always handwash it myself! Collinite was a pain to take off of the sponge applicator!

but otherwise, a liquid detergent and handwash works perfectly for the applicator pads! (I feel machine wash might damage them)

and dry in the sunlight(not outside, as there's loads of dust in the air outside and it might lead to pad contamination etc.)

now my mom thinks I'm crazy! lol

Last edited by sohail99 : 15th July 2010 at 12:48.
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Old 15th July 2010, 14:11   #2657
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I too had observed like super fine hairline scratches but about 3-4mm in length when I look at the paint from real close under a street light!
(under a microscope they looked like a really tiny shallow 'flood channel' like thing)

under normal lighting they aren't visible at all! I think If they had come from waxing, then they should've been circular of along the direction of the applicator pad.

I use totally clean MF cloth but I think microscopic dust particles can possibly cause this. Its these lines when they increase in number constitute a swirl!

(so it can be said that they are the starting of a swirl formation)
and swirls only appear as circular! ideally they are multiple lines in haphazard direction but the sharp angles that they reflect light at leads us to believe that they are circular(if the light used to view the defect is circular)

Something that I observed while waxing is that if you wax in non controlled environment(basically, an open area), dust tends to settle down on the not-yet waxed parts of the panel you're working on!

and after waxing 2-3 panels, I can see very minor dust collection on the periphery of the sponge applicator pad!(this was even though I was dusting off the panel repeatedly before working on that particular part)

I think, this might too be responsible for the hairline scratches!

I now want to work under controlled conditions(kind of like a clean room) and see whether the results turn out to be dramatic as opposed to waxing/working in the open!



I use a liquid detergent for my applicator pads and always handwash it myself! Collinite was a pain to take off of the sponge applicator!

but otherwise, a liquid detergent and handwash works perfectly for the applicator pads! (I feel machine wash might damage them)

and dry in the sunlight(not outside, as there's loads of dust in the air outside and it might lead to pad contamination etc.)

now my mom thinks I'm crazy! lol
You are a saviour! i was feeling bad that i maybe the only one- but looks like how much we can be careful, some minor things will always be there, unless as you said we can do things perfect. Where i am detailing is not the best as dust does come and all i do is use a micro to remove and then apply wax. Also, the foam applicator should be dumped after maybe 4-5 uses hence good to have cheaper ones what we can re-use. The applicator that came with NXT became useless afte 5-6 uses, i got micro applicators from megs. Have ordered a dozen foam applicators, if they can last 2-3 times each, enough for 2 years. Better to be safe than sorry now, though have been hand washing them. I saw that using little warm water helps dissolve the wax.
Question still remains- will these hairline marks go with polishing? If so- which product and with hand? I read that polishing/paint correction is best with orbital machine as with hands its impossible to replicate the effects.
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Old 15th July 2010, 15:37   #2658
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You are a saviour! i was feeling bad that i maybe the only one- but looks like how much we can be careful, some minor things will always be there, unless as you said we can do things perfect. Where i am detailing is not the best as dust does come and all i do is use a micro to remove and then apply wax. Also, the foam applicator should be dumped after maybe 4-5 uses hence good to have cheaper ones what we can re-use. The applicator that came with NXT became useless afte 5-6 uses, i got micro applicators from megs. Have ordered a dozen foam applicators, if they can last 2-3 times each, enough for 2 years. Better to be safe than sorry now, though have been hand washing them. I saw that using little warm water helps dissolve the wax.
Question still remains- will these hairline marks go with polishing? If so- which product and with hand? I read that polishing/paint correction is best with orbital machine as with hands its impossible to replicate the effects.
check out the videos on this site:
Auto Detailing Help - Best Car Wax and auto detailing supplies
Clearly for polishing/swirl removal we need an DA Polisher else its a huge task and will not have that effect for sure!

Last edited by mkh : 15th July 2010 at 15:39.
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Old 16th July 2010, 11:15   #2659
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I have thought it over and I think DA polisher is a next big step to paint correction and polishing!

just the thing we need!

I'll try contacting some detail centers and inquire them about the availability! will let you know!
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Old 16th July 2010, 16:48   #2660
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Guys, a bit confused about something, i got the hood, hatch door & fender of my swift repainted this week from the Maruti ***. (Solid red)

According to them, they do the curing post the painting with the IR lamp. They don't use clear & its the base coat only which is applied over the primer. No wet sanding done either after the painting. But the finish is excellent & like the original finish. I had earlier got all the doors & bumpers painted. No issues faced. I'm really confused after hearing this as i thought majority of paints nowadays are clear coated.

Even more confusing is the part about whether i can apply wax on the painted panels ? I read on the Megs & Autogeek forum that the paint needs to cure for around 30 ~ 90 days before wax is applied ?

Detailing Gurus, please shed some light !!
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Old 16th July 2010, 20:49   #2661
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Originally Posted by nirmaljusdoit View Post
Guys, a bit confused about something, i got the hood, hatch door & fender of my swift repainted this week from the Maruti ***. (Solid red)

According to them, they do the curing post the painting with the IR lamp. They don't use clear & its the base coat only which is applied over the primer. No wet sanding done either after the painting. But the finish is excellent & like the original finish. I had earlier got all the doors & bumpers painted. No issues faced. I'm really confused after hearing this as i thought majority of paints nowadays are clear coated.

Even more confusing is the part about whether i can apply wax on the painted panels ? I read on the Megs & Autogeek forum that the paint needs to cure for around 30 ~ 90 days before wax is applied ?

Detailing Gurus, please shed some light !!
The paint does not need to cure- then applying any sealtnt wax will bond else may not, i am not sure of the duration but yes about a month is recommended
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Old 17th July 2010, 00:27   #2662
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Whoa! without the clearcoat?? clearcoat has UV protective properties, thats why its adopted for newer pain finishes! without the clear, the paint will age(discolor/oxidise) quite quickly! how can they not do a clearcoat??
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Old 17th July 2010, 12:43   #2663
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I have thought it over and I think DA polisher is a next big step to paint correction and polishing!

just the thing we need!

I'll try contacting some detail centers and inquire them about the availability! will let you know!
Today this got 100% confirmed, that what a DA can do for swirl removal, our hands just cannot do it, contrary to what some products mention. I applied Megs UC( whatever little left with me) over the hood top and did a small section at a time. Went over 2 passes and some parts 3 passes. Hands just could not take it more as had already washed and dried. But clearly it was 60-70% improvement on the surface. Some tough hairline scratches remain and have reduced but surely with a DA they will just be history. Maybe will need 2 passes of the DA too.
Now the hunt for a good place where i can just get this done- remove these over the roof, bonnet and hood and then apply sealant layers Myself and wax. Post that- no way they are coming back for a year or two also for sure, after which can get it done again
Question: what is a good and reliable place? I emailed the guy who had conducted the megs car care clinic last time in india and he said they may come in sept(tentative). He also interfaced me with some folks who he said can help find a megs authorized center, let me hear back and will post
I just hope to get a good place, cause using the DA myself is a little scary and getting one from the US is tough( also the voltage issue with the device)
All we need- a training on using the DA and and DA and we are good forever!
Its soooo easy for folks in the US- walk into a training class and come out as DIY experts. We are far far far away, even though we maybe one of the fastest growing auto markets.
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Old 17th July 2010, 12:59   #2664
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Originally Posted by mkh View Post
Today this got 100% confirmed, that what a DA can do for swirl removal, our hands just cannot do it, contrary to what some products mention. I applied Megs UC( whatever little left with me) over the hood top and did a small section at a time. Went over 2 passes and some parts 3 passes. Hands just could not take it more as had already washed and dried. But clearly it was 60-70% improvement on the surface. Some tough hairline scratches remain and have reduced but surely with a DA they will just be history. Maybe will need 2 passes of the DA too.
Now the hunt for a good place where i can just get this done- remove these over the roof, bonnet and hood and then apply sealant layers Myself and wax. Post that- no way they are coming back for a year or two also for sure, after which can get it done again
Question: what is a good and reliable place? I emailed the guy who had conducted the megs car care clinic last time in india and he said they may come in sept(tentative). He also interfaced me with some folks who he said can help find a megs authorized center, let me hear back and will post
I just hope to get a good place, cause using the DA myself is a little scary and getting one from the US is tough( also the voltage issue with the device)
All we need- a training on using the DA and and DA and we are good forever!
Its soooo easy for folks in the US- walk into a training class and come out as DIY experts. We are far far far away, even though we maybe one of the fastest growing auto markets.
OMG! if they'll be coming there, I might drive down to Bangy to attend that and get my car treated!

but as far as I've read and the video's I've watched, DA can be easily used without any ill effects even by a person new to detailing itself!

its the rotary that I'm real afraid of! I havent had much experience with a rotary yet(just started using it(not on my car though! ) though if used properly, it does quite a good job with even the locally available products!

even autogeek states that its super easy even for starters - Dual Action Orbital Polisher Guide: how to remove swirls, scratches, & oxidation with an orbital buffer. Porter Cable 7424, foam pads, backing plate,

and I'm sure you will be able to operate it like a pro!!(after all, the DA is operating just like your hand(motion))

and a DA will make life(detailing) much much easier!!
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Old 17th July 2010, 14:22   #2665
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OMG! if they'll be coming there, I might drive down to Bangy to attend that and get my car treated!

but as far as I've read and the video's I've watched, DA can be easily used without any ill effects even by a person new to detailing itself!

its the rotary that I'm real afraid of! I havent had much experience with a rotary yet(just started using it(not on my car though! ) though if used properly, it does quite a good job with even the locally available products!

even autogeek states that its super easy even for starters - Dual Action Orbital Polisher Guide: how to remove swirls, scratches, & oxidation with an orbital buffer. Porter Cable 7424, foam pads, backing plate,

and I'm sure you will be able to operate it like a pro!!(after all, the DA is operating just like your hand(motion))

and a DA will make life(detailing) much much easier!!
yeah looks like the DA should be easy to use. The problem is getting it from US, with the pads etc, quite a bit of hassle. Added to that the voltage difference in the device. Lets hope can get a megs dealer- easier and hassle free to pay a little and get the swirls out, rest can handle
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Old 18th July 2010, 00:19   #2666
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Guys I waxed my car two weeks ago and since then lot of dirt and grime is sticking to it, monsoon season, driving through puddles etc. Do I just clean it with plain water and let it as it is? Or should I wax after cleaning it of all the mud and grime?

I do not want to damage clearcoat no matter how dirty the car is. So its only wax and no polish. Got turtle Super hard wax this time to try.

Last edited by download2live : 18th July 2010 at 00:21.
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Old 18th July 2010, 00:31   #2667
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Guys I waxed my car two weeks ago and since then lot of dirt and grime is sticking to it, monsoon season, driving through puddles etc. Do I just clean it with plain water and let it as it is? Or should I wax after cleaning it of all the mud and grime?

I do not want to damage clearcoat no matter how dirty the car is. So its only wax and no polish. Got turtle Super hard wax this time to try.
D2L, I would suggest you remove the marks before waxing, use a little polish on the areas where the marks are. When you're going to put-in efforts on waxing, aim for the best results so that the ride stands out. All the best.
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Old 18th July 2010, 20:29   #2668
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Didn't wanted to go in the said thread http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1985926-post46.html http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1986032-post47.html so am continuing the query in the appropriate one.
Sohail bhai can you state some good brand of mild cutting/rubbing compound which is easily available in the market, to get rid of the swirls induced on the car. The swirl marks are light to medium so i think a mild compound can do the work for me. do suggest any product which can help me out regarding this.

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Old 19th July 2010, 01:47   #2669
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You can go with 'Scratch out paste' as its a mild rubbing compound!
It also comes in a liquid form(but it requires too many passes and a lot of time and effort to come any close to results)

(but its good for super minor scratches which are visible from up close!)


anyways, you might need multiple passes with the paste too depending on the extent of the defect!

you need to work in the compound for 40secs to approx. 1 min( if the compound starts to dry, stop immediately!)

Wipe off the residue and analyze the progress! (its great to have a portable halogen lamp as they really show the swirls!)

and its advisable to work in the shade! (surface you're working on will remain cool, compound/polish won't dry prematurely and you wont feel tired! )

if the swirls are reduced but still there, you might need a 2nd pass.
Again work in, wipe and analyze!

If you feel that just a lil' more cutting could get rid of them, use the sonax auto polish.

Apply to the area you're working on > work in for 30-40 secs or upto 1 min(max) > wipe off the polish and analyze

you might need a 2nd pass again if there are just a few hairline scratches left!

(You must be knowing that compounds and polishes are Wipe on, work in, wipe off types!)

Note - you might need to work in the compound and polishes with a lil' passion!

after you're satisfied with the finish, seal as usual with a wax!

Always try these steps on a little part of the panel to compare the corrected part with the swirly part.
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Old 19th July 2010, 11:21   #2670
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Originally Posted by sohail99 View Post
You can go with 'Scratch out paste' as its a mild rubbing compound!
It also comes in a liquid form(but it requires too many passes and a lot of time and effort to come any close to results)

(but its good for super minor scratches which are visible from up close!)


anyways, you might need multiple passes with the paste too depending on the extent of the defect!

you need to work in the compound for 40secs to approx. 1 min( if the compound starts to dry, stop immediately!)

Wipe off the residue and analyze the progress! (its great to have a portable halogen lamp as they really show the swirls!)

and its advisable to work in the shade! (surface you're working on will remain cool, compound/polish won't dry prematurely and you wont feel tired! )

if the swirls are reduced but still there, you might need a 2nd pass.
Again work in, wipe and analyze!

If you feel that just a lil' more cutting could get rid of them, use the sonax auto polish.

Apply to the area you're working on > work in for 30-40 secs or upto 1 min(max) > wipe off the polish and analyze

you might need a 2nd pass again if there are just a few hairline scratches left!

(You must be knowing that compounds and polishes are Wipe on, work in, wipe off types!)

Note - you might need to work in the compound and polishes with a lil' passion!

after you're satisfied with the finish, seal as usual with a wax!

Always try these steps on a little part of the panel to compare the corrected part with the swirly part.
With MEgs UC and doing 2-3 passes and really getting tired only on a small area, it could only do 70-80% of the work. Its almost impossible to get rid of the swirls with hand man, that is a disclaimer must needed. Not sure if the prods you mentioned are better at this job, if they are, i need em too!
BTW got a reply from megs folks and lo and behold- they say go to carz spa as they are megs trained! Looks like we are left with no choice than to get a DA or wait for a megs clinic where can go and get this done for free ( volunteer our car!)
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