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Old 21st July 2010, 11:52   #2686
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^Whoa Awesome!

Flex is the best out there!
upto 9600OPMs!! and the most powerful direct drive motor!
totally awesome choice!

and defect removal with that comes in the rotary spectrum!

I was looking at Griot's Garage 6" orbital polisher,
850W motor, 6k OPMs ( i wont need more than that as I take regular care of my i20 and wont be needing extensive restoration!)

They claim that defect removal with that is easier as GG orbital(and Flex ones)wont give in under pressure!(as PorterCable does)

again, really an awesome choice!
Thanks. For the price it better be good !!.
The GG is also a good polisher. But i will advice look for a 220v unit if you can. The transformer for a 850W unit will have to be a substantial unit heavy & bulky. The electronic ones will be no good at all. Also check out DAS6 and DAS6 pro from kestrel. You will find the unit here :

DAP-850 Polishing Machine

Also, this site retails Zaino. What you need for your car given the color is Zaino AIO, Z2-Pro, Zaino Clear Seal.

Rgds
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Old 21st July 2010, 12:33   #2687
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I really wanna try zaino too, but shipping can be a real prob!!

and yea, you're right regarding the 220v unit! :(
but I cant get stuff from UK! :(
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Old 24th July 2010, 16:51   #2688
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My joy was shortlived- today i saw the sections which i had detailed using UC and the hairline scratches are still there. Looks like nothing else but a machine pass or 2 will clear them.
Meanwhile me and a friend travelled to a well known body shop to check out the surface treatment. They did a section with some lesser known prods(forgot) which were from UK. They are dealers of 3M but do not prefer those over the ones they use. The first step was sanding -wet and then applied the paste compound with rotary and then wax. Effects were great, but a few hairline scratches did not go. These are isolated lines which i can see even on my car and have never seen to go. Wonder how do they come, and they are not deep enough to be felt with the nail which makes it all the more perplexing.
Let me wait for Klasse AIO and hope that applying that and BF will remove the swirls to a large extent though my doubts are that nothing other than a machine run can actually do any good.
BTW saw the UK site- buying from there is mighty expensive!! But if can get it and do a good job, may run an offer to do this for more cars and recover some costs
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Old 24th July 2010, 18:28   #2689
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I did a lil' research on UC and Megs 105 cutting compound!

Its like, Megs 105 cuts and makes the surface uniform but leaves its own haze behind(miniature surface defects)

Megs 105 is always followed by megs 205(finishing polish) it makes the haze left by M105 to become uniform and really clarifies the paint!!

UC comes between Megs 105 and 205. Due to the diminishing abrasives, its able to cut quite well, but doesn't quite finish like what a dedicated finishing polish does!

Also, I read that using UC with a DA yielded quite good results as compared to working with hand!
(hairline scratches also minimize with a DA)

As far as I understand, the cause of the hairline scratches is that the diminishing abrasives in UC aren't able to break down properly(maybe they require a longer 'work in' period which can be perfectly achieved by a DA)

Due to the improper breakdown, the abrasives don't become super fine when removed therefore leading to those hairline scratches left by the 'non-diminished' particles!!

Seems like the DA is the only way out! :(

btw the bodyshop guys missed out on 'finishing polish' thats why the hairline scratches still persist!

It should've been like -

Wet-sanding(min - 2000-2500grit, not below that) > Compounding(to remove wet sanding scratches) > Finishing polish(to remove compounding scratches and leave a perfectly uniform finish) > Glaze(optional) > Wax/seal

best part about finishing polish is, that we can give it ~2 passes to achieve that exceptional reflectivity in the paint!
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Old 24th July 2010, 19:38   #2690
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Check the combo's here- Amazon.co.uk: polishing machine - Automotive: Car & Motorbike

Clearly one needs to use 2 things as you mentioned, paint cleaner+polish then glaze and sealant followed by wax
A friend is going to UK, some of the options there are cheaper and got good ratings. If i can just get the DA, can use SwirlX or Megs UC and then AIO followed by NXT and topped with Collinite.
The only thing here is hope that can use the DA properly which is my only apprehension and that the first compound does the work properly.
If not, only other option is to go for 3M treatment and get only 2 steps done and apply sealant and wax by hand. I can maybe get this on a reduced cost(less than 2.5K) if tell them need only polish+glaze.
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Old 24th July 2010, 20:24   #2691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sohail99 View Post
I did a lil' research on UC and Megs 105 cutting compound!

Its like, Megs 105 cuts and makes the surface uniform but leaves its own haze behind(miniature surface defects)

Megs 105 is always followed by megs 205(finishing polish) it makes the haze left by M105 to become uniform and really clarifies the paint!!

UC comes between Megs 105 and 205. Due to the diminishing abrasives, its able to cut quite well, but doesn't quite finish like what a dedicated finishing polish does!

Also, I read that using UC with a DA yielded quite good results as compared to working with hand!
(hairline scratches also minimize with a DA)

As far as I understand, the cause of the hairline scratches is that the diminishing abrasives in UC aren't able to break down properly(maybe they require a longer 'work in' period which can be perfectly achieved by a DA)

Due to the improper breakdown, the abrasives don't become super fine when removed therefore leading to those hairline scratches left by the 'non-diminished' particles!!

Seems like the DA is the only way out! :(

btw the bodyshop guys missed out on 'finishing polish' thats why the hairline scratches still persist!

It should've been like -

Wet-sanding(min - 2000-2500grit, not below that) > Compounding(to remove wet sanding scratches) > Finishing polish(to remove compounding scratches and leave a perfectly uniform finish) > Glaze(optional) > Wax/seal

best part about finishing polish is, that we can give it ~2 passes to achieve that exceptional reflectivity in the paint!
sorry for the back to back posts, could not edit in time
When you say wet-sanding, is this a must? I think only for the really faded paints it should be done
For normal paint correction, post claying, applying a compound like UC, 3M FinesseIt or Swirl Removers( each manufacturer has them) is the next step
Did not get the Finishing Polish- i see Klasse AIO is a polish, but any other manufacturers dont seem to have. They just say, put glaze(even megs)
Its really confusing between these 2. Sealant and wax are clearly the last steps and all manufacturers offer these. Could you give the indicative products you recommend( based on current knowledge?)
I see the following
Swirl removing step(or paint cleaning)- UC, Swirl X, or any paint cleaner like 3M Finesse It
Polish+Glaze: Klasse AIO or products that mention Glaze on the name
Sealant +wax: NXT, Blackfire(pure sealant) Collinite(pure wax)
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Old 24th July 2010, 20:58   #2692
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Mkh - I got a related question about polish too, finally my package ordered from Autogeek landed at home safely without anything missing ! Took 3 weeks, not bad for the Indian postal system

I'm planning a 5 step treatment consisting of

- Wash (Sonax shampoo)
- Clay (Megs clay)
- Prep (Megs UC)
- Polish (Megs Color X ??)
- Wax (NXT) Collinite ordered & on its way !
- Maintain (UQD)

Can I use Color X as a step for polish ? It claims to Clean. polish & waxes, all in one step ! Or can i use Megs cleaner wax ?

Sohail/Garipagol - Please advise !
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Old 24th July 2010, 21:30   #2693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkh View Post
sorry for the back to back posts, could not edit in time
When you say wet-sanding, is this a must? I think only for the really faded paints it should be done
For normal paint correction, post claying, applying a compound like UC, 3M FinesseIt or Swirl Removers( each manufacturer has them) is the next step
Did not get the Finishing Polish- i see Klasse AIO is a polish, but any other manufacturers dont seem to have. They just say, put glaze(even megs)
Its really confusing between these 2. Sealant and wax are clearly the last steps and all manufacturers offer these. Could you give the indicative products you recommend( based on current knowledge?)
I see the following
Swirl removing step(or paint cleaning)- UC, Swirl X, or any paint cleaner like 3M Finesse It
Polish+Glaze: Klasse AIO or products that mention Glaze on the name
Sealant +wax: NXT, Blackfire(pure sealant) Collinite(pure wax)
Wet sanding should be done only when gross paint defects are there! (mainly orange peel, severe/deep swirls etc.)

btw the process you've chosen above is correct! Klasse should perform perfectly as a polish!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nirmaljusdoit View Post
Mkh - I got a related question about polish too, finally my package ordered from Autogeek landed at home safely without anything missing ! Took 3 weeks, not bad for the Indian postal system

I'm planning a 5 step treatment consisting of

- Wash (Sonax shampoo)
- Clay (Megs clay)
- Prep (Megs UC)
- Polish (Megs Color X ??)
- Wax (NXT) Collinite ordered & on its way !
- Maintain (UQD)

Can I use Color X as a step for polish ? It claims to Clean. polish & waxes, all in one step ! Or can i use Megs cleaner wax ?

Sohail/Garipagol - Please advise !
ColorX -
Quote:
ColorX is Meguiar's newest addition to the Cleaner/Wax family. ColorX is like Meguiar's traditional Cleaner/Wax, (A1216), on steroids. It's more effective at cleaning neglected finishes, restoring optimum clarity and leaving behind an incredibly long lasting synthetic polymer paint protectant than Meguiar's Cleaner/Wax, (A12), without having to resort to harsh abrasives and without giving up the kind of stellar results you have come to expect from Meguiar's products. ColorX can be applied by hand, dual-action polisher and orbital buffers.
Though I've never used it, you can go ahead and try it!( its kinda like AIO)

since it contains sealant, its meant to be used as the last step!

Cleanerwax on the other hand doesn't seem to have any abrasives! might not be able to get rid of those micro-scratches!

just paint cleaning chemicals
Quote:
Meguiar's Cleaner Wax is a combination of non-abrasive chemical cleaners, rich conditioning oils and synthetic polymers, silicones and waxes all ingredients for long lasting paint protection. Because this Cleaner/Wax is non-abrasive it can be used on finishes in good to excellent condition with excellent results. The chemical cleaners in Meguiar's cleaner wax will clean and remove light oxidation, pore-imbedding stains, built-up road grime, and air-borne contaminants. The trade secret conditioning oils will rejuvenate your paint, restoring the paint's original oils lost over time, resulting in a darker, more clear finish. The synthetic polymers, waxes and silicones will seal the paint, locking in the rich conditioning oils and protect the finish against corrosion, oxidation, chemical attack, and the detrimental effect caused by day-in, day-out driving and exposure to the environment.
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Old 24th July 2010, 22:19   #2694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirmaljusdoit View Post
Mkh - I got a related question about polish too, finally my package ordered from Autogeek landed at home safely without anything missing ! Took 3 weeks, not bad for the Indian postal system

I'm planning a 5 step treatment consisting of

- Wash (Sonax shampoo)
- Clay (Megs clay)
- Prep (Megs UC)
- Polish (Megs Color X ??)
- Wax (NXT) Collinite ordered & on its way !
- Maintain (UQD)

Can I use Color X as a step for polish ? It claims to Clean. polish & waxes, all in one step ! Or can i use Megs cleaner wax ?

Sohail/Garipagol - Please advise !
Super to hear this. Good that you got all in 1 piece- but surely the cost you paid must be a lot!
On what car do you want to use this? Actually what i see is this- there is NO car that is totally swirl free. All the demos and pics we see, even our cars can reach that finish. But only on v close examination one can see the lines and or swirls. Overall ONLY with a machine pass or two, can you see best results. No way with our hands we can achieve that, however the gloss will be seen. Coming to Color X - have no idea , its an ocean of stuff out there, wondering what really is best! Megs themselves have multiple stuff for the same thing.Try out and let us know!
Enjoy your sunday then, am sure its going to be a busy morning
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Old 24th July 2010, 22:38   #2695
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Lol! for me too! will be topping up the collinite with another coat!

btw lately I've been using barometer a lot(in my wristwatch) to predict rains etc.(also I'm almost always checking out weather sites to make sure it isn't gonna rain)
tracking clouds/wind directions etc.!

and then only get out to detail!

and until now its never let me down!

I constantly keep taking pressure readings to ensure clear weather(as even a drop of water can disrupt my whole detailing session!(wax curing process)) as soon as the pressure begins to drop, I just finish up quickly and cover up the car!

Fortunately most ppl don't know this, or I would've been in a mental hospital for being OCD(Obsessive Compulsive Detailer)! lol

Last edited by sohail99 : 24th July 2010 at 22:41.
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Old 25th July 2010, 00:25   #2696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sohail99 View Post
Wet sanding should be done only when gross paint defects are there! (mainly orange peel, severe/deep swirls etc.)

btw the process you've chosen above is correct! Klasse should perform perfectly as a polish!


ColorX -

Though I've never used it, you can go ahead and try it!( its kinda like AIO)

since it contains sealant, its meant to be used as the last step!

Cleanerwax on the other hand doesn't seem to have any abrasives! might not be able to get rid of those micro-scratches!

just paint cleaning chemicals
Thanks Sohail ! The Megs website lists Color X under the polishes section, will try it out & check the results ! Interesting part about the barometer, how does it work ?! Topping up the Collinite ? Heard it lasts for months,even ? Dont know about the durability in Indian conditions though !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkh View Post
Super to hear this. Good that you got all in 1 piece- but surely the cost you paid must be a lot!
On what car do you want to use this? Actually what i see is this- there is NO car that is totally swirl free. All the demos and pics we see, even our cars can reach that finish. But only on v close examination one can see the lines and or swirls. Overall ONLY with a machine pass or two, can you see best results. No way with our hands we can achieve that, however the gloss will be seen. Coming to Color X - have no idea , its an ocean of stuff out there, wondering what really is best! Megs themselves have multiple stuff for the same thing.Try out and let us know!
Enjoy your sunday then, am sure its going to be a busy morning
Yup, it was quite costly :( But i got all the products i wanted at one shot & enough stock for a long time ! Great service by Autogeek !! No access to a machine for now, so will get a free workout on the Beemer, that's the one with the most neglected finish which has quite a lot of swirls, water spots & stains. Am planning to start early & also arranged for the driver to come to help me out !! Just hoping the rain gods don't decide to pay a visit

Guys, BTW i received a mail from Megs in reply to my query about the availability of their products in India & that they're working on the distribution channel through 3M India to bring in their entire range Just hoping we get to enjoy it soon !!

Last edited by nirmaljusdoit : 25th July 2010 at 00:26.
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Old 25th July 2010, 12:36   #2697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirmaljusdoit View Post
Thanks Sohail ! The Megs website lists Color X under the polishes section, will try it out & check the results ! Interesting part about the barometer, how does it work ?! Topping up the Collinite ? Heard it lasts for months,even ? Dont know about the durability in Indian conditions though !!



Yup, it was quite costly :( But i got all the products i wanted at one shot & enough stock for a long time ! Great service by Autogeek !! No access to a machine for now, so will get a free workout on the Beemer, that's the one with the most neglected finish which has quite a lot of swirls, water spots & stains. Am planning to start early & also arranged for the driver to come to help me out !! Just hoping the rain gods don't decide to pay a visit

Guys, BTW i received a mail from Megs in reply to my query about the availability of their products in India & that they're working on the distribution channel through 3M India to bring in their entire range Just hoping we get to enjoy it soon !!
Not sure abt the cost tho, in even malaysia or sing the cost is no less than whats here, 3 times the cost from the US. I wld still rely on getg enuff from the US to last a year even tho have to wait...we can get a proper 3m treatment for the extra price paid to buy outside the US
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Old 25th July 2010, 14:36   #2698
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I got a quote of ~7k for Bosch GEX DA!

but no reply after I asked them how to buy it!!
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Old 25th July 2010, 14:40   #2699
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Recently i read it somewhere that Meguiar's is now a part of 3M.Hopefully 3M centers will stock these products. So if they do bring in the entire range of Megs products then a whole lot of change will be seen in the automotive care market in India, atleast for some like-minded people like us.

BTW - 3M originally stood for "Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing" now what will it be called 4M ??

Last edited by samsag12 : 25th July 2010 at 14:42.
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Old 25th July 2010, 18:24   #2700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirmaljusdoit View Post
Mkh - I got a related question about polish too, finally my package ordered from Autogeek landed at home safely without anything missing ! Took 3 weeks, not bad for the Indian postal system
Congrats bro!
Did you pay any customs duty for the package?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nirmaljusdoit View Post
Guys, BTW i received a mail from Megs in reply to my query about the availability of their products in India & that they're working on the distribution channel through 3M India to bring in their entire range Just hoping we get to enjoy it soon !!
I got the same reply in Feb this year. They were planning to launch a complete distribution channel through 3M by May! The wait is still on!
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