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Old 3rd July 2011, 01:07   #1
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Default Sump guards : An extinct species?

While TDing various hatches, I noticed that when you look from the top of engine bay, you see the road easily.
The reason? No sump guard.
And its not really mfr specific. Barring a few, most hatches do not have a sump guard now!

I am wondering, is such type of cost cutting in a country like india where dangers lurk on every street corner in form of rocks and manholes, is it a prudent decision?

I hope atleast these cars have some kind of bolt holes to fit an after market one!
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Old 3rd July 2011, 01:25   #2
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Default re: Sump guards : An extinct species?

I thought Indica had one, doesn't it have it anymore? Baleno has a guard but i think its as good as none because its of some fiber, also most cars having Guard have a fiber one these days (Unlike aluminium which is usually the norm).
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Old 3rd July 2011, 01:34   #3
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Default re: Sump guards : An extinct species?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
While TDing various hatches, I noticed that when you look from the top of engine bay, you see the road easily.
The reason? No sump guard.
And its not really mfr specific. Barring a few, most hatches do not have a sump guard now!

I am wondering, is such type of cost cutting in a country like india where dangers lurk on every street corner in form of rocks and manholes, is it a prudent decision?

I hope atleast these cars have some kind of bolt holes to fit an after market one!

I was surprised too - but then I pinned it to my inexperience with cars. My thinking was "how will water, dirt and stones not get into the engine"

Does Safari have one? And is it possible to get aftermarket?

Also can you post your TD experience (detailed if you get time) on the other hatch thread?
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Old 3rd July 2011, 01:36   #4
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Tata cars still have one,and the safari has a metal one, however many hatches don't have any
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Old 3rd July 2011, 03:17   #5
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Default re: Sump guards : An extinct species?

I don't remember my IKON having it, but a very sensible design from Ford is that the drain nut is facing sideways and not downwards. So that it is not exposed to the dangers of unexpected speed breakers. Where as in a Skoda 1.9 diesel, i guess its facing downwards, making it susceptible to damage>oil loss>engine damage>truck load of bills.

A fellow member has installed the same from Bangalore. Might be of reference, if one is looking to install one.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ml#post2366130 (Re-Mapped Optra Magnum TCDI. EDIT:Dyno Graph on Pg 4)
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Old 3rd July 2011, 09:23   #6
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Default re: Sump guards : An extinct species?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
While TDing various hatches, I noticed that when you look from the top of engine bay, you see the road easily.
The reason? No sump guard.
I'll give an example to exactly accentuate this fact. My Corsa has a very very generous sump guard; some much so that almost the entire engine bay is covered by it. Given the soft suspension Corsa has, you can see the signs of war on the sump guard when you lift the car.

A few months back, the antenna on my ANHC was stolen; so after I'd gone home I checked everything in the engine bay. When I opened the hood, I could see the road below! The "sump guard" comprised of too narrow strips on either sides of the bay but NOTHING towards the centre. I quickly went to Honda and told them something was missing. They said, that was all there was! The ASC even showed a new ANHC to verify!

Cost-cutting at a very very wrong place!
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Old 3rd July 2011, 10:15   #7
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Default re: Sump guards : An extinct species?

2 Days ago, driving down the highway in our i20 petrol , inexplicably I missed the on coming hump on the road and didnt bother to slow down. A slight 'thud' was what followed up by my getting a bit anxious!. Therefore, I pulled over and inspite of no damage to the front-below, yet, I was taken back as I realized that the car had no sump-guard!!?

Why arn't car companies not installing a sump-guard in hatchbacks?. Clearly, an important question.
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Old 3rd July 2011, 10:47   #8
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Default re: Sump guards : An extinct species?

Well, I agree a sump guard is a very useful tool indeed and I am pretty happy that my family's Punto has a big and thick one.

But on the other hand, I dont think the manufacturer's are exactly fool's. No matter what all of say, roads in most cities of our country are improving. Thus the overall requirement of sump guards today, is much lesser than 10years ago.

Obviously, if manufacturer's felt that a sump guard would save them enough cost through costs incurred in warranty repairs, I would imagine they would provide one. On the other hand, they must have hard data on all kinds of warranty repairs that occur on their cars. If they feel a considerable number could be prevented by simply fitting a sump guard, which is not some seriously hi-tech piece of equipment, then I am sure they aould do so.

But like I said, I dont think there are that many failures that could probably be prevented from sump guards. May be some of us are still stuck in the old mentality of all roads in India are completely and utterly crap. Well just to throw a small stat out there, as of now there are more than 11,000kms of completed 4 lane national highways in the country.
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Old 3rd July 2011, 10:51   #9
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I am so glad my Punto has a heavy sump+engine+transmission guard. I find it ironic when people say their Punto has low ground clearance and scrapes everywhere. Some don't even have a clue to what they have underneath.
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Old 3rd July 2011, 11:18   #10
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Default re: Sump guards : An extinct species?

Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
Punto has a big and thick one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
Punto has a heavy sump+engine+transmission guard.
My Linea has these underbelly protection. So, nothing to worry about even if it bottom-scrapes.

Last edited by J.Ravi : 3rd July 2011 at 11:24.
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Old 3rd July 2011, 11:28   #11
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Default re: Sump guards : An extinct species?

My Figo doesn't - and it is notorious for scraping every speedbraker in time.

So the question again - is it possible to put the sump guards after market?
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Old 3rd July 2011, 12:43   #12
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Default Re: Sump guards : An extinct species?

This logic is sound, the only doubt I have is whether the correct warranty repair data reaches the manufacturer.

Most of the times, problems that arise due to absence of sump guards end up as accident related repairs borne by the insurance folks (as you end up hitting something in the road leading to oil sump damage). If thats not the case, then the next frequent occurence is the customer getting the blame for not filling oil levels properly, loose bolts and what not - all kinds of reasons to put the blame on the customer rather than accepting the wrong design. Only in really rare cases the manufacturer accepts the blame for bad design.

And lets not even get to the roads improving stuff, agree that NH condition has improved but it will take atleast a decade for the other roads to improve. Without taking names, even some of the off road vehicles also don't have a sump guard !!.

Mods: Maybe you can consider merging this thread with the design flaws thread if the OP doesn't mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post


Obviously, if manufacturer's felt that a sump guard would save them enough cost through costs incurred in warranty repairs, I would imagine they would provide one. On the other hand, they must have hard data on all kinds of warranty repairs that occur on their cars. If they feel a considerable number could be prevented by simply fitting a sump guard, which is not some seriously hi-tech piece of equipment, then I am sure they aould do so.


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Old 3rd July 2011, 12:54   #13
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Default Re: Sump guards : An extinct species?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post
So the question again - is it possible to put the sump guards after market?
Yes, there is. Please check my post above. I'm not sure if all cars have the holes in them to install after market sump guards.

btw, it cost him ~6000, to install on a magnum.

Also, as I mentioned before, IKON has the drain nut facing sideways, to avoid direct impact. Is this the same for Figo?. What about most other cars?

Last edited by dhanushs : 3rd July 2011 at 12:57.
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Old 3rd July 2011, 12:56   #14
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Default Re: Sump guards : An extinct species?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
I am so glad my Punto has a heavy sump+engine+transmission guard. I find it ironic when people say their Punto has low ground clearance and scrapes everywhere. Some don't even have a clue to what they have underneath.
The sump guard in Punto helps a lot, as the front overhang and low placed bumper is prone to scraping. Even a slight hit does result in loud sound, but with no damage, thanks to the metal sump guard. The sump guard on my Punto is full of scratches and dents.
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Old 3rd July 2011, 13:48   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by partha379 View Post
This logic is sound, the only doubt I have is whether the correct warranty repair data reaches the manufacturer.

Most of the times, problems that arise due to absence of sump guards end up as accident related repairs borne by the insurance folks (as you end up hitting something in the road leading to oil sump damage). If thats not the case, then the next frequent occurence is the customer getting the blame for not filling oil levels properly, loose bolts and what not - all kinds of reasons to put the blame on the customer rather than accepting the wrong design. Only in really rare cases the manufacturer accepts the blame for bad design.

And lets not even get to the roads improving stuff, agree that NH condition has improved but it will take atleast a decade for the other roads to improve. Without taking names, even some of the off road vehicles also don't have a sump guard !!.

Mods: Maybe you can consider merging this thread with the design flaws thread if the OP doesn't mind.
Possible, though I still have my doubts. If a particular car faced such issues regularly enough, the insurance folks would notice. I think even these cases are not high enough, otherwise the car would get an image of being too low for Indian conditions.

As for the roads, what percentage of our private car buyers go out on regular highway runs?? Almost negligible. Only taxis live out on the highway regularly. And most taxis have a guard (Tatas) or have high GC (UVs). Most of our city roads are not that bad, and even when they are, customers drive carefully enough not to damage anything.

As for our SUVs not having a guard, again same logic. How many of customers even go out on a basic dirt track, let alone proper off-roading??

In a cost sensitive auto market like India, manufacturers have to pinch every penny.
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