Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4th July 2011, 12:22   #16
Distinguished - BHPian
 
dhanushs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bathery/BLR
Posts: 3,446
Thanked: 4,055 Times
Default Re: *Installed* : Vtec indicator in my Honda Civic

Cool installation dot!. Its always like the 'geeky' and 'visual' way of knowing whats happening under the hood. And, yes, a pretty neat installation too.

Now... Does this explain the bad low end of the Civic? As at low rpms, its the FE cam, and not the regular cam that is activated. dot, can you please comment on the power/torque delivery of the car with vtec ON and OFF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dot View Post
... The software has a few limitations like it only shows one gauge at a time. However it also picks up DTS codes and performs diagnostics...
I had a trial version of OBD scope in my N97. IIRC, it had an option of displaying 1- 9 (max) gauges. but, then I never went for the paid version, as I had torque on Android. Another lack in the OBD scope was that, it didn't have average FE guage, even though it had instantaneous. Also, how many gauges does OBD scope show, when connected?

Sorry, if there are lot of questions. You know, I have a bad, unmanageable curiosity.
dhanushs is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2011, 13:31   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
spadix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 1,018
Thanked: 185 Times
Default Re: *Installed* : Vtec indicator in my Honda Civic

Quote:
Originally Posted by dot View Post
Someone please confirm if ANHC's engine is L series Vtec.
Confirmed. I looked up the registration number of a random ANHC in the parking lot on the AP RTO website and the engine number starts with L15A7.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushrutha View Post
He has OEM Fog lamps in his SCORP, so that should be the switch for the Fogs.
But that's not where the fog lamp switch is. It's on the headlight-cum-indicator stalk itself. Moreover the colour of this fog lamp switch on Scorponok looks very different to the colour of the headlamp level adjuster switch. Ergo the question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Now... Does this explain the bad low end of the Civic? As at low rpms, its the FE cam, and not the regular cam that is activated. dot, can you please comment on the power/torque delivery of the car with vtec ON and OFF.
I don't think it explains the bad low-end of the Civic. At lower RPMs, the F/E cam profile is in force *only* if you're cruising with a light foot. If you're zooming through the revs instead, it's the regular high output profile that should be in force.

Regards,
spadix

Last edited by spadix : 4th July 2011 at 13:34.
spadix is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2011, 14:49   #18
dot
Senior - BHPian
 
dot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ban Chang
Posts: 1,681
Thanked: 714 Times
Default Re: *Installed* : Vtec indicator in my Honda Civic

Thanks, all of you for finding this installation interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
It'll be interesting to see how the i-vtec works on the ANHC. The power delivery is a little different in that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vasoo View Post
ANHC comes with L15A7 engine. And it is an iVtec.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spadix View Post
Confirmed. I looked up the registration number of a random ANHC in the parking lot on the AP RTO website and the engine number starts with L15A7.
That a good find, the engine number is the best way to confirm. So now we know that ANHC engine is a different breed of i-vtec which operates in a different way when compared to Civic's R18A. As Spadix said in a previous post, i-vtec has become a brand name for a basket of technologies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
The R18s iVtec is a little different. It's a pity we got the R18 with the Civic, Honda could have done some good by bringing in a K series engine with the Civic.
Yes, wish we had the option at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arvi86 View Post
it acted as an eye-opener for me. Not sure about others, but I was thinking that the V-Tec works in exactly the opposite way to what you posted. Do let us know the difference in mileage in the V-Tec On and Off modes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sushrutha View Post
Thanks for this excellent piece of Information on R18A I-VTECinformation.
I always thought in a Opposite way.
Now I know as why I was suddenly getting Low F.E.

This LED glow is perfectly working like the ECONOMY/POWER mode indicator
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Cool installation. Its always like the 'geeky' and 'visual' way of knowing whats happening under the hood. And, yes, a pretty neat installation too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec View Post
and now we need to check if it impacts the FE, if you can help us with the exact rpm level(when you finish testing) it will save all of us from installing the LED.
I was also under the impression that vtec works in the usual way on our Civics. What bothered me is the lack of vtec kick during redlining runs. Not that the redlining experience was inferior in any way!

The light now serves as a economy indicator. It is good to know what is going on at what point of time rather than using the car as a black box. The LED's red light now tells me when to accelerate.

However, when I get a OBD tool running, I will measure the FE with light and without light. But those have to be highway runs since long consistent driving is necessary for the purpose. In the city, the light comes on now and then whenever the car is on light throttle with RPM over 1500. I have not found top RPM point reliably so far.

KSM-Vtec, answering your post on this thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushrutha View Post
When I spoke with RD Karthik, he told me one has to build a Circuit while connecting from the ECU pins for tapping the VTEC indicator.
You have got this done as a Child's play.
Thanks to you also and the first guy who did it and posted online.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
I had a trial version of OBD scope in my N97. IIRC, it had an option of displaying 1- 9 (max) gauges. but, then I never went for the paid version, as I had torque on Android. Another lack in the OBD scope was that, it didn't have average FE guage, even though it had instantaneous. Also, how many gauges does OBD scope show, when connected?
OBDscope has the option to show 9 gauges but we could see only one at a time, didnt find the option to see multiple gauges. We need to spend more time on it. Heck I need to buy an ELM device! Torque seems to be a nicer app, however I need buy a Andriod phone in that case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Now... Does this explain the bad low end of the Civic? As at low rpms, its the FE cam, and not the regular cam that is activated. dot, can you please comment on the power/torque delivery of the car with vtec ON and OFF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spadix View Post
I don't think it explains the bad low-end of the Civic. At lower RPMs, the F/E cam profile is in force *only* if you're cruising with a light foot. If you're zooming through the revs instead, it's the regular high output profile that should be in force.
Spadix is spot on. I will try to get live OBD data with vtec on and off. This will take some time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushrutha View Post
He has OEM Fog lamps in his SCORP, so that should be the switch for the Fogs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spadix View Post
But that's not where the fog lamp switch is. It's on the headlight-cum-indicator stalk itself. Moreover the colour of this fog lamp switch on Scorponok looks very different to the colour of the headlamp level adjuster switch. Ergo the question.
Scorponok is S-AT variant. I dont think they came with Fog lamps. The fog lamps must have been retrofitted. Lets discuss fog lamps in Scorpo thread, I have some more questions on it.

Last edited by dot : 4th July 2011 at 14:59.
dot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2011, 15:05   #19
Distinguished - BHPian
 
laluks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 5,805
Thanked: 7,799 Times
Default Re: *Installed* : Vtec indicator in my Honda Civic

The graph for the Civic R18 discussion
Name:  r18.JPG
Views: 2412
Size:  26.3 KB

The red area is when the led is lit in dots car

Note : Picture from web

Last edited by laluks : 4th July 2011 at 15:10.
laluks is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2011, 15:07   #20
Senior - BHPian
 
selfdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,700
Thanked: 2,119 Times
Default Re: *Installed* : Vtec indicator in my Honda Civic

Great job, dot! just a bit too much for me to digest on a Monday afternoon; perhaps anytime

Quote:
Originally Posted by dot View Post
That a good find, the engine number is the best way to confirm. So now we know that ANHC engine is a different breed of i-vtec which operates in a different way when compared to Civic's R18A. As Spadix said in a previous post, i-vtec has become a brand name for a basket of technologies.
Where do I fit in all the Jazz? I presume it will be closer to the ANHC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dot View Post
The light now serves as a economy indicator. It is good to know what is going on at what point of time rather than using the car as a black box. The LED's red light now tells me when to accelerate.
Aah, I need an indicator to tell me the reverse - when to decelerate or stop accelerating!! Maybe the instant fuel consumption indicator does its bit; but I have learnt to ignore it/ change the settings. A flashing red light may help a bit I guess
Jokes apart, it is certainly useful. Can you also share the cost/ time you expended on this?
selfdrive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2011, 16:36   #21
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,376
Thanked: 528 Times
Default Re: *Installed* : Vtec indicator in my Honda Civic

Quote:
Originally Posted by laluks View Post
The red area is when the led is lit in dots car

Note : Picture from web
This is useful. As i can see, the V-Tech cams come in to play even @high load, high speed (RPM) but then they wouldn't be operating in the economy range.
Guna is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2011, 18:19   #22
Senior - BHPian
 
thedreamcatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 1,205
Thanked: 61 Times
Default Re: *Installed* : Vtec indicator in my Honda Civic

This is very useful info. At one point towards the end I was a bit surprised when you said the vtec comes in at around 1500 RPM and goes off over 3000. And then that it operates on low load. I assumed you wrote the opposite, but towards the end it all became clear. As obviously, I always assumed the contrary view of it kicking in at much higher RPM

This is quite interesting actually and did a lot of reading on the net. Below is a very interesting article I came across that covers this topic in detail

Source: Asia Vtec Website

Technical Overview of Honda's new R18 i-VTEC Implementation
thedreamcatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2011, 18:42   #23
Senior - BHPian
 
VW2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: electricity
Posts: 2,571
Thanked: 2,046 Times
Default Re: *Installed* : Vtec indicator in my Honda Civic

What is the use of this modification in real world. Would like to understand better knowing the thought process of such modification.

It definitely feels great to do such modifications and i appreciate your efforts.

Engineering is/was and will be a marvel....
VW2010 is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2011, 18:43   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
bluevolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 2,963
Thanked: 2,211 Times
Default Re: *Installed* : Vtec indicator in my Honda Civic

Hi dot,

that is very neat installation and very helpful guide for others to look for. I know there is some difference in City and Civic engines but would like to know if this installation is possible in ANHC also? In ANHC I feel i-VTEC engages around 4-5K RPM.

How much that work cost you?

Last edited by bluevolt : 4th July 2011 at 18:58.
bluevolt is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2011, 18:47   #25
dot
Senior - BHPian
 
dot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ban Chang
Posts: 1,681
Thanked: 714 Times
Default Re: *Installed* : Vtec indicator in my Honda Civic

Quote:
Originally Posted by laluks View Post
The graph for the Civic R18 discussion

The red area is when the led is lit in dots car

Note : Picture from web
Thanks for posting the plot. I had seen the plot before in the temple of vtec article. All this time, this particular plot has been saying what the R18A does, and many of us didnt notice. But this is it. I am observing the same thing. Reposting the plot with an additional green circle where I have noticed the LED coming on, so far.

Name:  r18a.JPG
Views: 2042
Size:  46.6 KB

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
Where do I fit in all the Jazz? I presume it will be closer to the ANHC?

Can you also share the cost/ time you expended on this?
Check the engine serial number, if it starts with L, then you have a L series vtec engine. How it works? Do have a look at the link I posted on L series engine exposition.

Time spent : 3 hours, could have been shorter if Bund Garden road was a bit more free during the TDs and rain didnt play spoil sport.
Moolah: Rs500/-


Quote:
Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
What is the use of this modification in real world. Would like to understand better knowing the thought process of such modification.
As I said before, the engine, ecu, AT does some interesting things while we drive. Normally it is a black box for us. Would like to know a bit more about the car, that is the thought process. Now the light tells me what the plot told us many moon back: vtec on means better economy in R18A. So during driving if we try to maximize the light on mode, we should get better FE. Mdsaab and me are planning certainly tests, but that will take time. Will update on this aspect when it happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluevolt View Post
that is very neat installation and very helpful guide for others to look for. I know there is some difference in City and Civic engines but would like to know if this installation is possible in ANHC also? In ANHC I feel i-VTEC engages around 4-5K RPM.

How much that work cost you?
By the time I posted this post, you had already posted yours! Have look at the link which talks about ANHC's L series vtec engine. Yes you are right, it has a power vtec switch-over at those RPMs. Not like a Civic's economy vtec switch-over.
The cost is given above.

Last edited by dot : 4th July 2011 at 18:58.
dot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2011, 19:18   #26
Distinguished - BHPian
 
dhanushs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bathery/BLR
Posts: 3,446
Thanked: 4,055 Times
Default Re: *Installed* : Vtec indicator in my Honda Civic

Quote:
Originally Posted by dot View Post
Spadix is spot on. I will try to get live OBD data with vtec on and off. This will take some time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spadix View Post
I don't think it explains the bad low-end of the Civic. At lower RPMs, the F/E cam profile is in force *only* if you're cruising with a light foot. If you're zooming through the revs instead, it's the regular high output profile that should be in force.
I think I phrased it wrong. I was mentioning about the driveability factor of the civic. I was going through the article pranav posted. Somehow, I feel that in most of the city driveabiltiy the low output cam comes into play (as the operating range is till 3.5k).

However, dot, can you let me know how the car's driveablity is, when the light is ON?.

===============================================


Here's a graphic video on how the R18A Engine works. This also includes a detailed explanation of how the i-vtec works.

Honda Worldwide | New 1.8l i-VTEC Engine
dhanushs is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2011, 19:21   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
VW2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: electricity
Posts: 2,571
Thanked: 2,046 Times
Default Re: *Installed* : Vtec indicator in my Honda Civic

Quote:
So during driving if we try to maximize the light on mode, we should get better FE
Great. Would it be better to add a simple beeper to make it easier on the driver to avoid looking at the lights. Just a thought. But a great way to enable sensible driving.
VW2010 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2011, 19:26   #28
Senior - BHPian
 
pranavt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,628
Thanked: 272 Times
Default Re: *Installed* : Vtec indicator in my Honda Civic

Quote:
Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
Great. Would it be better to add a simple beeper to make it easier on the driver to avoid looking at the lights. Just a thought. But a great way to enable sensible driving.
Why do you want something bothering you continuously when you're driving?

For people who want to try another DIY, put a few red LEDs behind the rev counter in the Civic. Have it come on when it sees 0v across the solenoid, similar to what's there on the Lexus LFA where the cluster turns red when you redline the engine.
pranavt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2011, 19:36   #29
dot
Senior - BHPian
 
dot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ban Chang
Posts: 1,681
Thanked: 714 Times
Default Re: *Installed* : Vtec indicator in my Honda Civic

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
I think I phrased it wrong. I was mentioning about the driveability factor of the civic. I was going through the article pranav posted. Somehow, I feel that in most of the city driveabiltiy the low output cam comes into play (as the operating range is till 3.5k).

However, dot, can you let me know how the car's driveablity is, when the light is ON?.
Thanks for the link.

The light comes on often during city driving, sometimes for a couple of seconds, sometimes longer, but always at RPMs higher than 1500. So you need to press the accelerator very lightly to see the light, irrespective of which gear is engaged. Vtec is engaged in 3rd or 4th or 5th gear. I have driven the car with the vtec light on at 36-38 kmph(M3), 44-46kmph(M4), 62-65kmph(M5) at a stretch. As soon as you release the throttle and let the car coast, light goes off as RPM goes to less than 1000. I have not gone to too high RPMs after the installation, so will comment on the higher end of the range later.

Therefore, if someone wants to drive with the light on for maximum amount of time, you would need a light foot, thats it. Now, very importantly, as mdsaab pointed out, my car has an AT. AT driveability is never an issue and cannot be compared to an MT. However if I were to take a guess, the same light foot rule should apply. Will the vtec disengage when clutch is pressed? I am not sure. Any guesses?

Last edited by dot : 4th July 2011 at 19:38.
dot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2011, 20:29   #30
Senior - BHPian
 
spadix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 1,018
Thanked: 185 Times
Default Re: *Installed* : Vtec indicator in my Honda Civic

Quote:
Originally Posted by laluks View Post
The graph for the Civic R18 discussion
Super! So, in an M/T, one can comfortably "light-touch cruise" at 140 kmph (3500 rpm in 5th) and still get fantastic FE. On an AT, 3500 in 5th corresponds to 175!

/me heads out searching for roads to pull this off

Really, if we only had the roads that this car and engine deserve!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
I think I phrased it wrong. I was mentioning about the driveability factor of the civic.
OK, I get your point now.

The car definitely doesn't pull from the ~1500 rpm mark in gears 3 and above. It's sort of like your typical modern-day turbo-diesel before the turbo spools up. You have to either downshift or gun the throttle and the moment you do either you're back into high-output mode.

The way I see it, the R18A iVTEC is meant for highway cruising and not for maximizing returns inside the city. The latter would be an exercise in frustration in most of our cities. Horses for courses. One could of course argue that it should be the other way around for Indian conditions and that this unit seems to be perfect for cruising along on the Interstate.

All the more reason to look at dot's report on his next experiment: OBD usage including power/torque figures w/ and w/o R18A iVTEC engaged.

Regards,
spadix
spadix is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Installed : Orchis seat covers in my pre-owned Civic kedarwalke Modifications & Accessories 36 7th August 2016 12:33
Got a used Honda Civic. Installed LPG kit thetinywanderer Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 10 5th January 2016 15:24
My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator dot Long-Term Ownership Reviews 433 20th February 2015 23:02
Honda City Vs Honda Civic E Vs Honda Civic V (pre-owned) drkunaldas Sedans 4 31st October 2010 18:07
For sale honda 1.5 VTEC engine (from the civic si) XtremeG Shifting gears 6 10th September 2007 11:19


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 00:02.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks