Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th July 2011, 18:45   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
IndigoXLGrandDi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solapur (MH-13)
Posts: 1,029
Thanked: 160 Times
Default Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamal.sn
One more observation..when the car is idling in the first or second gear, say the second gear at 15 kmph and i brake a bit without pressing the clutch pedal and release the brakes, the car speed increases to 20 kmph and the falls to 15 kmph. Is this normal ?
You cannot use the term "Idling in 2nd gear at 15 kph". It is the characteristic of Diesel Engine to avoid stalling the engine. So when you brake a little bit and leave the brake, the engine will prevent itself from dieing.
IndigoXLGrandDi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2011, 14:44   #17
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: haridwar
Posts: 588
Thanked: 448 Times
Default Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it

This is the story for most of the diesel suv and cars around.
When your vehicle is at 10 or 12kph and you press the clutch,main shaft of gearbox is out of direct contact from the engine,but counter shaft still rotates rigidly corresponding to wheel rpm.
Although the synchro on the first gear should bring main shaft to correct rpm within no time, but that is usually not the case with hi torque diesel engines.
Main and counter shafts of todays cars and suv s are very heavy and pose considerable inertia.

And because there is quite a gap in 1st and 2nd gear ratios,problem is hilighted.
I presume while changing from 2nd to 1st,you would be pushing the lever into place,and when it doesnot readly engages,you would tend to lighten the grip to try again,or even try again from neutral position.
I would suggest you give more time to synchro to do its job,you need to hold the gear lever with pressure until it finally slots in gear.may take a bit longer then you have been giving it.(3-4 secs)
Another theory is ,your clutch is having more friction with flywheel then it shoule have with the pedal depressed,affecting synchro's operation to bring main shaft to speed required.
This may be due to new clutch/pressure plate,over tightned pressure plate bolts,or foreign body in clutch(may even be dirt or slush),clutch play adjustment.
If it is clutch issue it wil go away with time ,may be 2 months or so.

I feel you need to keep the pressure up,urging the synchro to get the job done.this no problem,get used to it.

If you hear toO much of kerrrr sound while changing gears,get clutch free play adjusted,it might be to low and might be real reason behind all story.
*** may tell you hydraulic clutch is self adjusting,and they are rite,but you can still adjust it for travel and free play from inside the cabin to your desired engagement and disengagement point(in most of the vehicles).
dustom_99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2011, 17:58   #18
BHPian
 
kamal.sn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 145
Thanked: 81 Times
Default Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it

I found an interesting link when i was googling.

http://training.hyundai-motor.com/gu...T_HMC/main.swf

Could be used as a starting point to understand Manual transaxle, clutch, how gears are selected and some pointers to reasons for vibrations, hard gear shifting etc.

I know that it is very basic for most of the bhpians but good for beginners like me.

Last edited by kamal.sn : 14th July 2011 at 18:00.
kamal.sn is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2011, 18:12   #19
BHPian
 
AlphaKilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: VOMM-EDDW-EDDM
Posts: 773
Thanked: 362 Times
Default Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamal.sn View Post
I found an interesting link when i was googling.

http://training.hyundai-motor.com/gu...T_HMC/main.swf

Could be used as a starting point to understand Manual transaxle, clutch, how gears are selected and some pointers to reasons for vibrations, hard gear shifting etc.

I know that it is very basic for most of the bhpians but good for beginners like me.
Indeed an interesting link. Seems like some hyundai technician training manual. But in any case it is quite informative. But does that solve your problem?
AlphaKilo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2011, 18:20   #20
BHPian
 
kamal.sn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 145
Thanked: 81 Times
Default

Mod Note : Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing back to back posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaKilo View Post
Indeed an interesting link. Seems like some hyundai technician training manual. But in any case it is quite informative. But does that solve your problem?
I will be going to the ASC to get the gear cable replaced as they are suspecting the gear cable for the 'clunk' when engaging the second gear.

I am not sure if there is a solution to the second issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post

...Yes, Tucson gear ratios are poorly chosen. I feel 2nd and 3rd are way apart. On the contrary I love the 15kmph crawl in the second - I use it very effectively in Pune traffic which can be mild compared to Gurgaon (?)...
Hi Anand, The following pic will give you some idea of the kind of traffic in Gurgaon. I took this pic from my office sometime last year and the situation has improved a bit but not so much

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaKilo View Post
can you exactly define your stalling characteristic? Does the engine behaves like its being lugged or the engine coughs? If it lugs, it may not be the gear issue rather rather just a little throttle(increase the RPM a bit). If it is coughing, check it with the service centre. As said by many it may be because of the poor ratio match. Btw by any chance is yours a 4x4 with HH, HL, LL settings? If so, check if you have them in correct setting for normal driving!
The engine lugs and i get a feeling that it will stall.

The Tucson is 4WD but there is only one setting which allows you to lock the car in the 4WD mode similar to a differential lock but here in this case it uses a borg warner electrically operated multi-disc clutch to achieve the same.

I use the normal mode for driving ( which is also recommended when driving on tarmac ) where the 4wd lock is not active.

I was going thru link posted earlier and i found that the 'clunk' or 'grind' in the second gear could be due to reason that the gear lever mounting assembly is not in the right position.

But the folks at Hyundai ASC want to replace the gear cable even though i am able to shift other gears properly.

Comments please..
Attached Thumbnails
I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson  - Pls. help me find it-dsc00127.jpg  

I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson  - Pls. help me find it-gear-lever.jpg  


Last edited by GTO : 15th July 2011 at 22:44. Reason: Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing back to back posts.
kamal.sn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2011, 21:46   #21
Senior - BHPian
 
IndigoXLGrandDi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solapur (MH-13)
Posts: 1,029
Thanked: 160 Times
Default Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it

I face difficulty in shifting to 1st and 2nd from higher gears when the engine has run some kms. i.e. when the engine is warm.

Details--

When the engine is cold, the gear shift is easy. When the engine is warm following happens--
If I am in 3rd or 4th and want to shift to 1st or 2nd (not respectively), the gear lever refuses to move in the desired slot. The gear lever can be mnoved to Neutral and then to the left most end of gear lever travel, but it refuses to move to either 1st or 2nd beyond that left most point.

Then I vigorously move the gear lever from left most point to right most point and back several times (7-8) without depressing clutch. After this, the 1st and 2nd gear get engaged easily.

The pick up is still nice and also the FE.
The car in question is Indigo LS May 2004 which has run 2,20,450kms. The complete clutch assembly (Clutch Plate, Pressure Plate, Fork, Release Bearing, Clutch Cable, etc) was replaced at 1,43,000+kms at TASC.
IndigoXLGrandDi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2011, 22:10   #22
BHPian
 
AlphaKilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: VOMM-EDDW-EDDM
Posts: 773
Thanked: 362 Times
Default Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamal.sn View Post
I was going thru link posted earlier and i found that the 'clunk' or 'grind' in the second gear could be due to reason that the gear lever mounting assembly is not in the right position.

But the folks at Hyundai ASC want to replace the gear cable even though i am able to shift other gears properly.

Comments please..
sir, but then how is this going to solve the lugging/stalling nature? You had no problems with gear shifts correct?
@indigo
sir, the gear shift issue is probably due to the flywheel being worn out or just apply extra pressure while shifting. The bearing(pilot) may have worn out, in case yours uses a pilot bearing or other wise some balls in the coupling must have some problem.(Ref. Hyundai manual link posted by Kamal.sn)
AlphaKilo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th July 2011, 21:09   #23
BHPian
 
kamal.sn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 145
Thanked: 81 Times
Default Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it

I took the silver fox to the ASC to get it checked for the issues under discussion. The improper shift of the second gear was diagnosed earlier to a faulty shift/select cable. The technician struggled a lot to remove the cables but gave up as the retainer of the cable was not coming out. He said that the entire dashboard has to be removed to get enough working space to get the retainer out.
I had to come back and leave the car overnight as the entire replacement due to the dashboard removal and then the cable replacement
kamal.sn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th July 2011, 16:44   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,453
Thanked: 955 Times
Default Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it

Great, so please tell us if the change of cable improves things around clutching - if so I will get mine done as well. I can happily leave the car overnight at the service station if I am going to get a soft clutch in the morning.


BTW, the picture from your office window is really horrible. My left knee (and foot) started paining - simply looking it it - "muscle memory" you see.

Last edited by anandpadhye : 18th July 2011 at 16:48.
anandpadhye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd August 2011, 15:08   #25
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,453
Thanked: 955 Times
Default Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it

Hi Kamal,

WHat became if the shift cable? Was it replaced and did it help in any way?
anandpadhye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2011, 18:20   #26
BHPian
 
kamal.sn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 145
Thanked: 81 Times
Default Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
Hi Kamal,

WHat became if the shift cable? Was it replaced and did it help in any way?
Apologies for the delayed response. Was unwell for a week and then went on a week long holiday to Ooty and Conoor. I have come back only yesterday.

Yes the shift/select cable was replaced. The gear shifts have become a little smoother but the 'clunk' when upshifting to second gear is still there but only sometimes.

I am facing another problem and has happened twice after the cable change. The gear stick pops out of fourth gear. I have not been able to capture the exact scenario when this happens. Is this normal ? what causes the gear to pop out ?

Last edited by kamal.sn : 5th August 2011 at 18:23.
kamal.sn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th August 2011, 09:43   #27
BHPian
 
kamal.sn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 145
Thanked: 81 Times
Default Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it

The problem of the 'clunk' when shifting to the 2nd gear still remains. The other gears are also hard to shift to and i also feel that there is the NVH levels are high.

Is there any good independant garage in NCR which i can get my car checked as the Hyundai ASC where i get my car serviced have tried a number of times to rectify these issues the problems remain. Or can someone a good Hyundai ASC ( other than safdarjang hyundai ) where i could get the car checked ?

Would appreciate if i get some suggestions today itself as i can get the problems rectified during the long weekend staring tomorrow.
kamal.sn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th August 2011, 17:46   #28
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,133
Thanked: 1,006 Times
Default Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamal.sn View Post
The problem of the 'clunk' when shifting to the 2nd gear still remains. The other gears are also hard to shift to and i also feel that there is the NVH levels are high.

Is there any good independant garage in NCR which i can get my car checked as the Hyundai ASC where i get my car serviced have tried a number of times to rectify these issues the problems remain. Or can someone a good Hyundai ASC ( other than safdarjang hyundai ) where i could get the car checked ?

Would appreciate if i get some suggestions today itself as i can get the problems rectified during the long weekend staring tomorrow.
No idea of your vehicle's gear shift, but what you describe was a common problem with my Fiat 1100. If the gear selector plate or the engine mounting shifted due to any reason, the alignment of the gear shifting train would go for a six, and you would get similar problems - either the top or the bottom gears would be difficult to engage and prone to "pop up".

You then had to get the gear train rod lengths adjusted (thank god they had enough threaded part for that), and all would be fine. The first sign that there was a problem cropping up would be the reverse refusing to engage on a slope, and that is when you (if you had previous experience) would go to a garage and get the gear train adjusted.

You can try and explain it to "modern" mechanics, but a better bet would be to find an old timer who has dealt with the Fiats and Ambassadors of yore. I have no idea of other places, but you may find old timers at Zamroodpur (near LSR) who are knowledgeable and rarely take you for a ride.
Aroy is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2011, 22:33   #29
BHPian
 
kamal.sn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 145
Thanked: 81 Times
Default Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it

@Aroy - Thanks for the info. I will get the same checked.

A couple of observations :

1) Gear shifting is very smooth when engine is off
2) Gear shifting is smooth even when engine is on but car is stationary
3) Gear shifting starts to become notchy/hard after a couple of minutes of bumper to bumper driving and NVH levels also increase.
4) Second gear 'clunk' doesnt happen if the second gear is engaged by pushing the gear stick to extreme left and keeping it there when engaging the gear.
kamal.sn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2011, 11:57   #30
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,133
Thanked: 1,006 Times
Default Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamal.sn View Post
@Aroy - Thanks for the info. I will get the same checked.

A couple of observations :

1) Gear shifting is very smooth when engine is off
2) Gear shifting is smooth even when engine is on but car is stationary
3) Gear shifting starts to become notchy/hard after a couple of minutes of bumper to bumper driving and NVH levels also increase.
4) Second gear 'clunk' doesnt happen if the second gear is engaged by pushing the gear stick to extreme left and keeping it there when engaging the gear.
More or less confirms my diagnosis. The engine mountings (and/or maybe the gear box) may have gone soft, and are swaying slightly, there by misaligning the gear shift train. Please check the engine mounts for degradation and or excessive play.
Aroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
pls pls wear helmets!!! ns_jughead Street Experiences 35 3rd August 2009 15:05
Karizma 5th Gear Problem..Please Help pratap007 Motorbikes 2 24th June 2009 14:37
Helmet Visor Screw Lost! Cant Find a new one rahulsingh007 Motorbikes 12 20th February 2009 20:26
5th-gear noise?! ghostrider4385 Technical Stuff 25 7th February 2006 00:07
5th gear presenters!!! Shan2nu Shifting gears 7 12th February 2005 18:10


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:25.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks