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Old 25th August 2011, 04:01   #61
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Default Re: Too many problems with my new Chevrolet Optra Magnum

Some comments in bold below, mate

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS View Post
At last i had a chance to test drive the Magnum. Called up the SA at 1 pm. Told him that I would reach the showroom between 3.00 - 3.30 pm. Reached at 3.15 pm with my better half.

In short
- loved the leather interiors of LT (new car on display)
- other things looked old school - Easier to reverse. More kneeroom for a tall person!
- had to wait for TD car to arrive for 20 minutes
- SA had no clue about the car & was most of the time talking on the mobile
- TD car had run 8400 kms; SA said that the car was less than a year old - A good time to check a car. Being a TD car, it should equate to 2-3 times or more of regular use.
- engine was smooth and was the best part of the car
- suspension felt softly tuned and could soak up undulations on the road - Hope the soft suspension didn't mean that it was a poor handler. It is surprisingly good for it's soft suspension. Will talk about an incident with my Magnum on my ownership thread very soon.
- immense turbo lag (25 kmph in 3rd gear). Car took a while to pick up speed and was a monster above 2100 rpm - I have almost Zero Turbolag (probably something to do with Post BS4 and premium fuel)
- rubbing noise from left front wheel was audible. SA said - normal
- enquired about sensors failing in new cars. SA said - possible in any car
- enquired about the immense turbo lag in the TD car. SA said - go above 40 and you will feel the push - Magnum has taller gearing. If you TD it agian, try looking at the RPM and see how it feels, mate. Above 1300-1600 should be good. I even cruze around at 1200RPM at times. Pulls cleanly from 1300 on fourth.
- lot of road noise seeping into the cabin even though engine is only audible at high revs - Again strange. Often, mine feels quieter than a petrol. Could it be tyre noise? Or maybe something to do with rubbing front wheel you talked about? Warming it up for a couple of minutes helps a lot.
- Right hand side ORVM is not convex enough.

The car is good, but SAs lacked even an iota of interest to sell the car. I liked the car and have asked for a quote. Works out to 10.6 OTR, which is a fair deal. Wifey was not very convinced. According to her it is a car I should own when I am 10 years older. I'm looking at the other cars and would take decision soon.
Don't know how old you are mate, but this engine is to be used when one is still young (atleast at heart ).

About SA's - If I left it to that, would not have gone for this car, given my first experience (Is there on the ownership report) - and I would have lost out on this beauty.

Edit: If you happen to visit Delhi, you could TD my car and am pretty sure you'll fall for it

Last edited by Poitive : 25th August 2011 at 04:03.
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Old 25th August 2011, 16:18   #62
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Default Re: Too many problems with my new Chevrolet Optra Magnum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
BTW, I was recommended to keep at least 1/4 tank (preferably 1/3 tank) of fuel in the car at all times - supposedly good for the car, saves the fuel pump and aids in better FE. Not sure how true this is, but I intend to do it this way. Not difficult, given a 60 litre tank on the Magnum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyur View Post
Not true! I have gone upto the E mark and no issues there. Just ensure that it does not go dry.

--------------
I don't think that it has anything to do with the FE. If air does get caught in the pump, you need to bleed the pump. There is a no hassles process to do this in case you face these issues.
Had surprisingly missed the post when replying.

Running the car with less fuel in the tank


I too have gone close to the E mark in diesels before. Scores of times. Just that he feel of the car often changes when the fuel is low - mainly the vibrations are a tad more, if one is sensitive to it. Can feel it in the Magnum too, which indicates some change happening in how the car functions. Felt a significant change right after tanking up.

For the longer term, it just seems to be a good practice to not wait till the fuel gets too low. The 60ltrs tank only making it simpler.

Another reason to not take the fuel too low is that the debris in the tank (accumulated sediments and rust from the tank) tend to gather in the bottom of the tank. Their relative density increases when the fuel is low, which in turn has a higher probability to enter the fuel line, thereby putting the fuel pump at risk. Just simpler to tank up a lil' sooner

Quote:
Originally Posted by dnaturallywired View Post
karl.slym@gm.com and should there be a necessity, you may also write to his Executive assistant jaswinder.lamba@gm.com ( professional and an able lady)
Thanks for sharing the contacts mate. They may help other, though one hopes that they are never really needed.

Quote:
Agree, especially after getting the first hand impression of the car almost 2 years ago as 2 of my good friends drive them and the ride to Goa in one of the cars is when love happened..200kmph was a breeze and it really did feel better than an orgasm
T-Bhp is known for different sorts of comparos!!!!
The mods may not take too kindly to such!
Quote:
What is the date of production of the car based on VIN?

manufactured in march 2011

Any idea of when the car was invoiced to the dealer?
(it is there in the paperwork of the car with the local dealer)

Invoiced - July 2011
This again reaffirms my belief that one should try to pick a car which has recently been manufactured. I normally have a 3 month cut off, though 4 also seems acceptable.

Any progress on the resolution mate?
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Old 25th August 2011, 23:58   #63
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Default Re: Too many problems with my new Chevrolet Optra Magnum

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS View Post
According to her it is a car I should own when I am 10 years older.
The turbo boost would probably give you a heart attack when you are ten years older . This is a great car whether you intend to drive or to be driven!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post

Edit: If you happen to visit Delhi, you could TD my car and am pretty sure you'll fall for it
You are generous - I normally do not let people take the driver's seat in my car - till date, the only people to have driven my Opty are my dad (about 300 km) and my wife (about 300 metres)!






Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post


Just that he feel of the car often changes when the fuel is low - mainly the vibrations are a tad more, if one is sensitive to it. Can feel it in the Magnum too, which indicates some change happening in how the car functions. Felt a significant change right after tanking up.
The feel is probably due to the fact that the weight of the car reduces and the rear shocks get lighter and the car gets bouncier.


After tanking up, the rear weight (directly above the suspension) is nearly +60kgs. This makes car less bouncy, hence more composed.


The Magnum has a Common Rail injection system. The Rail pressure is always independent of the pressure at the fuel pump inlet. So the amount of fuel in the tank has no direct relation to the injection, and hence to the output!
The CR system totally decouples the fuel tank from the injection process.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post

Another reason to not take the fuel too low is that the debris in the tank (accumulated sediments and rust from the tank) tend to gather in the bottom of the tank. Their relative density increases when the fuel is low, which in turn has a higher probability to enter the fuel line, thereby putting the fuel pump at risk.

The fuel pump has it's inlet above the bottom of the fuel tank precisely for the purpose of preventing debris from entering other components. If I am not wrong, a fuel filter is present as well.
Relative densities do not change unless and until there is a drastic change in pressure or temperature, so the reduction in fuel quantity will not result in significant changes in densities (relative or absolute).


Apart from this, the sloshing of the fuel inside the tank also results in the debris not remaining settled at the bottom of the tank, unless the debris is really heavy (in which case you better find out who was responsible for putting sand or pebbles in your fuel tank ).


The full and empty tank performance difference is valid in vehicles having carburetors, but with injection systems, it should not matter
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Old 26th August 2011, 02:12   #64
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Default Re: Too many problems with my new Chevrolet Optra Magnum

Quote:
Originally Posted by keyur View Post
You are generous - I normally do not let people take the driver's seat in my car - till date, the only people to have driven my Opty are my dad (about 300 km) and my wife (about 300 metres)!
The offer was based on the probability of it actually getting taken up - Unlikely to say so to someone in Delhi

Quote:
The feel is probably due to the fact that the weight of the car reduces and the rear shocks get lighter and the car gets bouncier.

After tanking up, the rear weight (directly above the suspension) is nearly +60kgs. This makes car less bouncy, hence more composed.
The feel I am talking about is the vibrations. Also to some extent the low rpm feeling of torque.

Quote:
The Magnum has a Common Rail injection system. The Rail pressure is always independent of the pressure at the fuel pump inlet. So the amount of fuel in the tank has no direct relation to the injection, and hence to the output!
The CR system totally decouples the fuel tank from the injection process.
I usually like to make observations and then look at the theory. No wonder I went in for the Magnum . Otherwise with all the bashing about it being a Korean and GM bashing in general it would have ended otherwise! LOL

But more seriously, it is based on what I experienced. Now am talking only about the Magnum - once from just below 1/4 on the needle to a Tank Full, there was an immediate change in vibrations felt (given one is sensitive enough to it, of course). It was observed the second time round as well, though the fuel was a tad higher this time. Am not sure, but it probably was observed in the Cruze as well.

Quote:
The fuel pump has it's inlet above the bottom of the fuel tank precisely for the purpose of preventing debris from entering other components. If I am not wrong, a fuel filter is present as well.
Relative densities do not change unless and until there is a drastic change in pressure or temperature, so the reduction in fuel quantity will not result in significant changes in densities (relative or absolute).

Apart from this, the sloshing of the fuel inside the tank also results in the debris not remaining settled at the bottom of the tank, unless the debris is really heavy (in which case you better find out who was responsible for putting sand or pebbles in your fuel tank ).
That is standard practice for any tank (to have the outlet a bit higher than the base).

Now consider a given amount of derbis/rust - say 100 units (don't ask me 100 units of what!!!) accumulated in the tank. If it is spread in 10 litres the density would be 100/10 = 10 units/litre. If spread over 20 litres, it would be 100/20 = 5 units/litre. I realize the above example isn't perfect, but it should convey the idea of change in densities.

Quote:
The full and empty tank performance difference is valid in vehicles having carburetors, but with injection systems, it should not matter
My experience has been different. I really don't know the logic or theory behind, but my experience has been different.
(with both - carburated and electronically controlled injectors)
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Old 26th August 2011, 08:51   #65
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Default Re: Too many problems with my new Chevrolet Optra Magnum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post

My experience has been different. I really don't know the logic or theory behind, but my experience has been different.
(with both - carburated and electronically controlled injectors)

I have also felt the same in Fuel injected cars.

From my limited knowledge, cars having return type fuel system flows back unused fuel in injector rail back to the tank. When the fuel is returning back, it gets hot and in turn it gets more vaporized in tank. If the fuel in tank is relatively low, the overall temperature of the fuel gets increased over a period of time which brings down the relative density of fuel which may bring out a noticeable performance difference.
Also, once if excess vapor forms inside the tank, the pressure build up and the vapor is released into the intake manifold through the Fuel canister. I think, this can also bring some different state of tune to the engine when its released.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Last edited by shineshine : 26th August 2011 at 08:52.
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Old 28th August 2011, 08:26   #66
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Default Re: Too many problems with my new Chevrolet Optra Magnum

UPDATE AFTER THE INITIAL FIASCO INVOLVING SENSOR AND A/C PROBLEMS:

Well, i took the delivery of the car on Thursday and had a rather longish chat with the GM folks on the dependability of the car from now on to which i was re-assured of a problem, trouble free expereince henceforth. The Head of service(Trident Chevrolet) and myself did drive the car for 100 odd kms, Speedo working perfect, AC-normal and we bonded well during this 2 hours of drive.

At this point what am i thinking - All's well that ends well, with a glasgow smile, I leave, and boy i had a peaceful sleep that nite.. Doesnt it sound like a prosaic statement??

Heck wait a minute !!! the next day am driving to work and i notice an annoying sound every time the AC compressor switches on & off (TICH,TICH,TICH,TICH - when you take 2 electric wires and short them the resulting noise is this TICH - yes it exactly sounds like that) It originates under the steering wheel column where there is a relay housing.

FATE IS A B@#$ch i tell to myself... Now is it this damn car or my cognitive dissonance i thought !! but the former was true, unfortunately !!!

Yesterday i entered the service station by 11am and got out at 9.30pm (yep , they made me wait for 10 hours) as i wanted an answer for these problems and more importantly to put a meaningful end to this ongoing & never ending problems but to my shock and dismay even GM INDIA was out of answers and they constantly huddled & tried to convince me that the noise was very apparent in all the cars and that it was normal... "NO SON, i wont buy that dime" i tell them as i fairly know about cars and after testing 5-6 other cars(including 3 optra magnums) they accepted that the noise was indeed very audible and after testing the AC compressor cut off & on cycle for 5 minutes, They say that the cycle is very high (28 times in 5 minutes, usually this wont exceed more that 15-16 cut off & on's) and that it was behaving erractically !!!!

After checking entire AC parameters, they failed to arrive at any logical conclusion and now they will replace the FUSE BOX and WIRING on Tuesday after getting the same AIR LIFTED (i was told) from their plant.

1.On a more serious note, need your help badly guys - WHAT ARE THE LEGAL IMPLICATIONS AND PROCEDURE IF I HAVE TO FILE A CASE AGAINST GM? am mulling over this issue as am now quite convinced that this is a faulty car...

2. Since i find TRident chevrolet service staff as doltish,dumb,chromosome deficient people who understands nothing but to sweet talk should i consult other Chevrolet service guys to fix the problem?

3. Any of you guys faced similar problems (TICH,TICH noise) in your respective cars AC's?

4. What could be causing this annoying noise? Electromagnetic clutch checked - found ok, gas pressure - found ok, circuit & wiring - found Ok,relays & switches - found ok, solenoid -found ok

Skeptical, concerned and angry describes my mood...
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Old 28th August 2011, 13:23   #67
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Default Re: Too many problems with my new Chevrolet Optra Magnum

Quote:
Originally Posted by dnaturallywired View Post

2. Since i find TRident chevrolet service staff as doltish,dumb,chromosome deficient people who understands nothing but to sweet talk should i consult other Chevrolet service guys to fix the problem?

3. Any of you guys faced similar problems (TICH,TICH noise) in your respective cars AC's?

4. What could be causing this annoying noise? Electromagnetic clutch checked - found ok, gas pressure - found ok, circuit & wiring - found Ok,relays & switches - found ok, solenoid -found ok
Terrible to experience this, @dnw.

I can't recollect hearing any sound from the AC relay. Possible that I haven't paid enough attention or maybe it isn't loud enough. The sound you describe does seem to be a relay like sound, but I am far from being any sort of an expert.

Some persistent problems I've had with other cars have eventually been sorted out by company service centres. But this I don't mean A$$, but rather a service centre run by the company itself. There are very few around. Maruti has one in Naraina in Delhi. Just in case you have one for GM in Bangalore, it would be ideal. If not, trying to get in touch with them in another city could be useful too. They'd be a lot better at diagnosis and suggesting solutions.

My faith on dealerships/showrooms is very limited. Consider keeping GM guys in the loop. There should be someone from GM whom these service guys report to. You may also want to keep shooting emails of your experience to the top chaps (you had shared those emails) and probably even give them a link to your posts here. The company would be concerned enough about the reputation of GM, whereas the dealership may not be.

Hope your experience with this car improves and you get a chance to really enjoy this car.
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Old 26th February 2012, 15:26   #68
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Default Re: Too many problems with my new Chevrolet Optra Magnum

Just yesterday an unknown problem cropped up and my Magnum is refusing to start.

The car was driven by my wife yesterday during the day and worked fine. In the evening my wife started the car and it started normally and was idled for 2 minutes. She then barely moved 2 meteres and the engine stalled and despite cranking, the engine wouldn't start. Even though the battery is new, it was tried to jump start, still it refused to start.

I was in office and I had called up the service advisor. He said it could be a clogged fuel filter or a fuel pump failure.

I tried starting it in the morning today, but it wouldn't start. I cheked all fuses are OK. I also removed the battery for a while and tried. I even drained the fuel filter (note: no water drained out of it), primed it and tried, but it didnt start.

There are a few things that I noted:
1) When the ignition is turned to ON (engine off), the fuel pump sound is not heard.
2) On ignition ON (engine off), after the initial few seconds, the fuel pump light (engine malfunction light) is still on --- Is it supposed to go off? What does it mean if its still on?
3) My wife drove the car for about 10km in the morning. I today asked her if she was sure that the fuel pump light (malfunction light) was off when she drove in the morning yesterday. She wasnt sure about it. --- What damage can this cause?

Could this be a fuel pump failure? Mine is a Nov2007 model. I have read on the forum that the symptoms of a fuel pump failure is that the car doesn't start when hot. But this is not the thing in my case. I told this to the service advisor yesterday and he said that the pump can fail without warning. Can the fuel pump fail like this suddenly?

Can fellow bhpians please share their views on the diagnosis and the next actions?

Last edited by benzinblut : 26th February 2012 at 15:52.
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Old 26th February 2012, 21:04   #69
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Default Re: Too many problems with my new Chevrolet Optra Magnum

Hi Benzinblut,

Yes fuel pump can fail anytime without any warning symptoms and I am afraid in your case its most definitely packed up.
Was your pump ever replaced earlier under warranty ? Asking this as there have been a number of fuel pump failures (many reported here as well) in pre mid 2008 optra's.
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Old 26th February 2012, 22:19   #70
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Default Re: Too many problems with my new Chevrolet Optra Magnum

Thanks for your response. Pump was never replaced. I thought the problem was in the 2008 optras only.

If the pump has failed, then I have to pay for it. I dont think after more than 4 years GM would consider even sharing the cost. Any idea on what is the likely cost of the pump? Is the pump covered under insurance? Can I source the pump from outside?
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Old 26th February 2012, 22:27   #71
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Default Re: Too many problems with my new Chevrolet Optra Magnum

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If the pump has failed, then I have to pay for it. I dont think after more than 4 years GM would consider even sharing the cost.
Writing this from the phone.

Since it is a KNOWN issue with that batch, it may be worth raising the issue with GM. @digitallynaturallywired reported that he finally managed a 5 year warranty after the issues he faced. he had also shared the email addresses on the forum.
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Old 26th February 2012, 22:46   #72
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Default Re: Too many problems with my new Chevrolet Optra Magnum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Writing this from the phone.

Since it is a KNOWN issue with that batch, it may be worth raising the issue with GM. @digitallynaturallywired reported that he finally managed a 5 year warranty after the issues he faced. he had also shared the email addresses on the forum.
The car is still with me and pump failure is suspected by talking on phone with the service advisor. I think I will have to give the car to the service centre first and only after job card and official diagnosis I should move things higher. And that means towing charges will be payable.

But I am the second owner. Bought this car 2 years ago. Do you think I should raise this issue with GM? Will insurance not cover this?
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Old 27th February 2012, 00:04   #73
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Default Re: Too many problems with my new Chevrolet Optra Magnum

Benzinblut,

As the pump failed under normal usage (no accident) it will not be covered under insurance. In all probablity GM would not extend any goodwill warranty but there is no harm in trying , right ?

No idea about about the cost but it will be cheaper than GM A.S.S and you can source O.E part from opera house.
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Old 27th February 2012, 01:15   #74
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Default Re: Too many problems with my new Chevrolet Optra Magnum

Benzinblut mate, A plus 1 on Spookey's comments. Insurance should not cover this. Why I suggested that you keep GM in the loop was because it is a known issue with that batch of cars. If you make the right noise (that GM should have had a recall etc.) with the right people (read people who can take decisions), you may have a chance of getting something in return for what you are going through. I would not expect towing charges etc to be paid though. If the car has a regular service history with GM (with both ownerships), it should help.

The hope comes from the fact that almost everyone who had trouble with GM on the forum, eventually had a satisfactory resolution to things. In your case, one is stretching things a bit, and by Indian standards, GM is not obliged to compensate. However I would not be surprised if they did it as a goodwill measure. Telling them that you would duly update the forum of their goodwill measures (if any), may help too.

All the best mate and do keep us updated.

Edit: If I were in your shoes, I would not take an aggressive approach in my dealing, though would still be firm on the fact that it was an issue with that batch of cars and hence a manufacturing defect (even though it came to light late). IIRC @Rodeo also had this issue come up a bit after the warranty period and he managed to get it replaced on the company's cost. You could PM @dnw and @Rodeo.

As you said, it should be taken up only after an proper diagnosis at the A$$. Another option would be to have their Helpline chaps visit your place.

Last edited by Poitive : 27th February 2012 at 01:21.
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Old 27th February 2012, 10:04   #75
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Default Re: Too many problems with my new Chevrolet Optra Magnum

@spookey & Poitive: thanks for your reply. I shall initiate the case with the A$$ today. I will keep you posted.
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