Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th February 2015, 18:10   #16
Team-BHP Support
 
noopster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 8,614
Thanked: 9,067 Times
Default re: Badly Maintained Hyundai Santro Serious Issues - Help Required!!!

Dear God, I really don't know where to start.

By my calculations the car has completed 125,000 km in nearly 6 years and- if I read you right- NEVER been serviced, had it oil changed, engine looked at, mechanicals checked or even its tyres changed. Is this an accurate assessment?

Am not sure sure what "advice" you are expecting from the forum. We're car-lovers not magicians. A car is like a baby for most of us here and your post was honestly cringe-inducing.

Please take the car back to your mechanic and ask him to compile a list of problems. Prioritize those in order of decreasing severity and start working on them as your budget permits. Keep the car out of the reach of your MIL in the interim.

My guess is the car is screwed beyond all redemption now. But you may get lucky and squeeze a few more years of this baby yet. Good luck.
noopster is offline   (9) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2015, 18:30   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
svsantosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hosur
Posts: 3,308
Thanked: 1,252 Times
Default Re: Badly Maintained Hyundai Santro Serious Issues - Help Required!!!

The opening post is fit for a divorce lawyer's opening statement who is fighting for his petrol-head client who was victim of both Mother-In-Law harrasment and Wife harrasment - if that doesnt suffice - throw in Sister in Law too for post lunch 2nd session opening statement...!

That apart...
(1) See if you can find a local mechanic who has access to ScanGauge type of tools and before any tool is applied under the bonnet, let him work his magic of computer below the dash/OBD port and understand the check-engine light.

(2) Clutch issues wont throw up a check engine light - but a busted camshaft/crankshaft sensor might (these sensors show up their hands just before the conrod bearings implode and a piston will stick out of the block)

(3) Please eloborate more on the numbers such as
- purchase date
- petrol kms
- CNG Kms (most likely)
- # of owners
- regular serviced at?
- time since last oil change/full service
- knowns crashes/repairs
- Kms on ODO as of today

Last edited by svsantosh : 12th February 2015 at 18:32.
svsantosh is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2015, 18:37   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
arunphilip's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,724
Thanked: 4,653 Times
Default Re: Badly Maintained Hyundai Santro Serious Issues - Help Required!!!

I'm not mechanically experienced, but here are my questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-magnon Man View Post
Car still makes rumbling noise, which goes away when the clutch is pressed.
Doesn't this indicate the issue is at the clutch or gearbox? Since decoupling those by pressing the clutch makes the noise go away? Why does your mechanic state the issue is with the crankshaft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-magnon Man View Post
Engine oil light generally stays on, but goes off at times.
So, how is your oil level? When was the last oil filter change, and oil change done? Any leaks? The oil light indicates an oil pressure issue (not oil level), so it could indicate some blockage at the very least that is affecting pressure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-magnon Man View Post
Car blows out some, not much, black smoke when starting.
Black smoke is usually an indication of a rich mixture. When was the air filter last changed?

It might be worthwhile connecting an OBD-II scanner to see what manner of error codes are being reported, and posting those here.
arunphilip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2015, 18:48   #19
BHPian
 
Roy.S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 465
Thanked: 46 Times
Default Re: Badly Maintained Hyundai Santro Serious Issues - Help Required!!!

Well, I got the heebie-jeebies reading the OP's description. It would be helpful if a brief service history can be provided. I'm sure basic jobs like engine/gearbox oil change, air filter cleaning etc were done. I doubt it would even start if these have not been done.
I'm really keen on seeing the physical condition of the car. Can you upload a couple of pics?

Last edited by Roy.S : 12th February 2015 at 18:49.
Roy.S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2015, 19:07   #20
Distinguished - BHPian
 
condor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Speed-brkr City
Posts: 10,257
Thanked: 3,551 Times
Default Re: Badly Maintained Hyundai Santro Serious Issues - Help Required!!!

@Pro-Magnon Man, do you have the service bills ? If yes, please collate the work done with time lines. But then again, considering the symptoms you have mentioned, none of it may be helpful. I would suggest that the car be not driven till full servicing is done. Even after that, I would still be ready for some break-down.
Quote:
svsantosh (Badly Maintained Hyundai Santro Serious Issues - Help Required!!!) : The opening post is fit for a divorce lawyer's opening statement who is fighting for his petrol-head client who was victim of both Mother-In-Law harrasment and Wife harrasment - if that doesnt suffice - throw in Sister in Law too for post lunch 2nd session opening statement...!
condor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2015, 19:58   #21
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: shimla
Posts: 236
Thanked: 240 Times
Default Re: Badly Maintained Hyundai Santro Serious Issues - Help Required!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-magnon Man View Post
Hi everyone,

I have been a silent follower of Team BHP for an incredibly long time, reading your posts and enjoying the discussions. However, now I've reached an issue that may require a higher power to intervene, hence the post.
The rumbling noise which goes away when clutch is pressed is usually a gearbox bearing issue (input shaft bearing usually) and not a clutch or crankshaft noise. The check engine light which comes and goes may turn out to be a faulty sensor. Why specifically does your mechanic believe its the crankshaft? My friend changed the crankshaft on his santro last year and it cost him 25000 in total at HASS. I believe the cost of crankshaft was 16000. how does the car feel to drive? Can you provide a breakup of the 40000.

Last edited by mobike008 : 13th February 2015 at 07:18. Reason: Please do not quote entire large post for a short reply. Thanks!
bullrun87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2015, 20:17   #22
Senior - BHPian
 
rajeev k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Emerging Metro
Posts: 3,294
Thanked: 1,689 Times
Default Re: Badly Maintained Hyundai Santro Serious Issues - Help Required!!!

Dear friend, first, take the car to a reliable mechanic and get it inspected.
The symptom of the sound going off when clutch pedal is pressed points to the gear box which also may be lacking proper lubrication.
What I suggest is you spend some money (This money may sometime go as wastage, still) in flushing and filling of lubricant in the engine and gear box. Check the engine compression also. And depending on the performance post the oil filling, a decision can be taken on overhauling.
rajeev k is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2015, 20:54   #23
Distinguished - BHPian
 
dhanushs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bathery/BLR
Posts: 3,394
Thanked: 3,907 Times
Default Re: Badly Maintained Hyundai Santro Serious Issues - Help Required!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-magnon Man View Post

However, lack of time meant that I couldn't leave the car behind for the four days they wanted. Then, my sister-in-law got back into town and took the car out. Four-hours and 45-odd Kms later, the engine-oil light comes on and isn't going off. Mechanic says, something wrong with the crankshaft on the engine. Says they tend to break or chip off and that can cause the rumbling.
This should be the low oil pressure warning light. Usually occurs only when oil is empty (not even less), or when there is an oil pump malfunction, or when the engine has run for a good number of kilometers so that the crankshaft bushes are all shot. Basically, the engine is shot. (unless the sensor is malfunctioning)

The only economical solution for this is to change the engine to a used, or accidental engine. Otherwise, a total engine rebuild (buy half engine), which might cost a lot more, and makes no economic sense. But, the car will run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-magnon Man View Post
The car developed a low rumbling sound that persisted throughout the driving process. The only time the rumbling would go away was when the clutch was pressed. Then, when it was released again, the sound would return. Showed it to a few mechanics and they all suggested that there was something wrong with the engine and not the clutch flywheel (which I was suggesting).
Its a sound from the gearbox. The only thing which is not working when the clutch is pressed (not literally) is the gearbox. Check the bearings. I suspect worn out ones, due to low oil. Read: Negligence.

Overall, the lesson that should be learnt from this is, even if you dont baby your car like most of us do, you should atleast do your routine services, which keeps the lubes in place and avoids this expense, which is what? most of the resale value right now?
dhanushs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2015, 21:19   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,790
Thanked: 2,961 Times
Default Re: Badly Maintained Hyundai Santro Serious Issues - Help Required!!!

Based on advice above, the repairs will most likely cost you more than the car is worth now. Best to sell it for whatever it'll fetch (may not be much) and if you have another car, HIDE THE KEY and pray like hell!!!
Chetan_Rao is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2015, 21:33   #25
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 5
Thanked: Once
Default Re: Badly Maintained Hyundai Santro Serious Issues - Help Required!!!

Okay.... that sounds like a rough journey lies ahead... Let me try and answer all your questions here:

1. Purchase date: 2008 (month, not sure/don't remember)
2. Petrol kms: around 98,000
3. CNG Kms (most likely): (not CNG)
4. # of owners: Bought first-hand
5. Regular serviced at?: First few services were at official Hyundai workshop. All others were at local mechanics. Father-in-law got the car serviced regularly - every six to eight months - but never trusted official service centers
6. Time since last oil change/full service: Probably around 10 to 12 months
7. Knowns crashes/repairs: No major crashes. A few fender benders every now and then but nothing major.

@Noopster: Out of the six years, we've had the car for about 5 or 6 months. Not driven more than 200 or 300 kms though as wife and I both have our own cars and this was supposed to be a gift by my wife to her mom. We didn't really expect it back. It's not the budget that's the issue as much as is the advice we are getting from each mechanic.

I have been to five so far - and the range of advice has varied from engine to clutch and beyond. So, not really sure about whom to trust considering that my regular guy isn't really there at the moment.

@arunphillip: My quick-search through the Internet led me to believe that the rumbling noise, which disappears on clutch-press, was related to the dual flywheels, which as you mentioned, decouples on clutch press.

Oil level is within markers but there's no oil leakage as well. No blue smoke either to suggest oil is being burnt within the engine. No idea about oil change and whether the filter was changed or not. Last service must have been around 18-months or so ago when my parents-in-laws left for their home-town and gave the car to my sister-in-law after getting it serviced.

@ Roy.S: Best guess I can give you about service history is - done once to twice a year in the first 4.5 years. Then, nothing as far as we know.

@Condor: No service bills as car was only taken to (non-Hyundai) local mechanics

@Bullrun87: Your assumptions about what the problems are were exactly my inference. However, the same potential causes were mentioned by multiple mechanics from completely different parts of the city (GK II, Dwarka and Gurgaon) so either they all come from the same school of car mechanics or that might actually be a potential issue.

The breakup of the 40k is something like this:

Opening and fixing the Clutch Issue: INR 12000 to 15000
Opening and fixing the Engine Issue: INR 22000 to 25000

@Rajeevk: The problem is that only - I cannot define the word "reliable" when it comes to a mechanic. I needed my Ford Ikon's front suspension replaced and Ford service centre asked for INR 32,000. Got the parts from Metro Spares (Malviya Nagar) and took it to my mechanic and got everything replaced under INR 7,000.

Spending money to find the problem or fix it is not the issue. Knowing whom to trust is a bigger issue.

@Dhanushs: When the engine light came on, got it filled with Engine Oil (3.2L). Still the light stayed on.

Regarding the clutch noise, all the mechanics were unanimous in their belief that there was no clutch oil issue. They did mention the bearings though (some).

Like I mentioned, I have two other cars and both are well-maintained so its an issue that I really would have had if the car hadn't returned to us. That said, here's what I believe the options are from what you all have mentioned:

1. Find a reliable mechanic and let them have a go. Problem is, my reliable mechanic or the one who hasn't made any mistakes with jobs on my cars, isn't in town. Even in his case, I buy the parts and stand there while he fixes things - something I cannot do if it takes three or four days to fix. So the person has to be trustworthy and knowledgeable and any help in this department will be wonderful!

2. Go to the authorized service centre and pay a lot more than what the car is probably worth

3. Take the car across state lines, leave it there and report it stolen for insurance money. Have a huge party with the money I get...
Pro-magnon Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2015, 22:58   #26
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Rajeevraj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,147
Thanked: 7,426 Times
Default

No offense, but this is like taking the phrase "Fill it,shut it, forget it" to a while new level. Curious- did you not have access to the car while it was being used by your MIL?

In any case as already mentioned best you can do is get a full understanding of the cost involved and also get an idea of the resale value. That can help give an idea of what is the best approach.
Rajeevraj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2015, 23:41   #27
BHPian
 
norhog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: mumbai/ Kolkata
Posts: 133
Thanked: 66 Times
Default Re: Badly Maintained Hyundai Santro Serious Issues - Help Required!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-magnon Man View Post
Hi everyone,
.
.
.
Please Note: All locations, New Delhi
Hi Promagnon-Man
To cut a long story short.

Rumbling noise - Like most here I would go with gearbox issue.
Drain the oil and fill it with new to correct specified level. See the condition of the drained oil if it has metal chips. Easy way to find it is dip a magnet in the drained oil. The broken off bearing particles or gear particles will get stuck to it.
Metal in drained off oil is a sure sign of gearbox components failure.

Engine oil light-
1)Low oil level.
2)Problem with lub oil pump not developing pressure.
3)Suction strainer chocked with sludge.(Can happen if engine is run with engine oil not being changed for a long time).

Black smoke.
Injector or tuning issue.

With such major problems why not go to a authorized Hyundai service station. Will cost more, surely, but high probability of getting it fixed correctly since the problems mentioned are for the major components.
Let me elaborate, for opening gearbox and engines special tools, torque spanners which are engine/ gearbox specific are required. Unfortunately a local mechanic however well knowledgeable and good with his hands he is, without these tools he may not be able to bring back the repaired components to their efficiency and reliability levels as designed by manufacturer.
After this is fixed please avoid getting a car in this condition again. Even if it is not owned by us (I am sure I speak for all on team BHP) it pains to see an automobile, which is really the pinnacle of human advance in technology, using all fields of engineering from thermal to fluid mechanics to aerodynamics to electronics and computer..you name it, its used somewhere in the car, and provided to the masses at relatively cheap cost go to waste.

Last edited by aah78 : 13th February 2015 at 18:58. Reason: Quoted post edited. Please quote only relevant portions of large posts. Thanks!
norhog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2015, 23:59   #28
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 5
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
No offense, but this is like taking the phrase "Fill it,shut it, forget it" to a while new level. Curious- did you not have access to the car while it was being used by your MIL?

In any case as already mentioned best you can do is get a full understanding of the cost involved and also get an idea of the resale value. That can help give an idea of what is the best approach.
hahaha... The car was gifted to my mom-in-law by my wife. So when you give a gift, you don't really expect to get it back later. We didn't have any access to it when it was with her or with my sis-in-law. We never really thought about it. My dad-in-law did get it serviced regularly but that doesn't account for driving styles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by norhog View Post
After this is fixed please avoid getting a car in this condition again. Even if it is not owned by us (I am sure I speak for all on team BHP) it pains to see an automobile, which is really the pinnacle of human advance in technology, using all fields of engineering from thermal to fluid mechanics to aerodynamics to electronics and computer..you name it, its used somewhere in the car, and provided to the masses at relatively cheap cost go to waste.
Hi Norhog. Thanks for your detailed response. Will probably be taking it to the service centre only to get an estimate. If it seems worth it, will get it fixed. Love your point of view on the automobile as the pinnacle of engineering (not sure whether its applicable to a Santro though ). While I shudder to say, I may not have the same level of affection for automobiles as you all have, but it's fantastic to see the passion you guys have for it.

Really appreciate all the points of view and suggestions. Will try and see what needs to be done and what makes the most sense. I always say, "Money can be made, but not time!" So lets hope this thing works out. Another weekend, another trip to the mechanics..

Last edited by Rehaan : 13th February 2015 at 17:20. Reason: Posts merged. Please use the MULTIQUOTE button instead of making multiple consecutive posts in the same thread. Thanks.
Pro-magnon Man is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2015, 00:21   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dombivli/Gurgao
Posts: 2,589
Thanked: 1,102 Times
Default Re: Badly Maintained Hyundai Santro Serious Issues - Help Required!!!

I suggest take it to a Hyundai service centre for a checkup. They should be far better equipped to diagnose the problem. Once the diagnosis is done you can decide how and where to get it fixed.
honeybee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2015, 07:45   #30
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: shimla
Posts: 236
Thanked: 240 Times
Default Re: Badly Maintained Hyundai Santro Serious Issues - Help Required!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-magnon Man View Post
@Bullrun87: Your assumptions about what the problems are were exactly my inference. However, the same potential causes were mentioned by multiple mechanics from completely different parts of the city (GK II, Dwarka and Gurgaon) so either they all come from the same school of car mechanics or that might actually be a potential issue.

The breakup of the 40k is something like this:

Opening and fixing the Clutch Issue: INR 12000 to 15000
Opening and fixing the Engine Issue: INR 22000 to 25000

..
I dont think clutch issue should cost 15k to fix for a santro, Im assuming they want to open the gearbox too for the rumbling noise. Have you shown the car to a hyundai authorised center. Hyundai is not ford they have a lot more reasonable pricing structure.
bullrun87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Two Classics, One Car - 81 year old Packard and 101 year old owner karlosdeville Beyond Borders 5 29th August 2016 00:42
Engine choking in petrol mode, works fine in CNG mode fast lane Technical Stuff 12 28th August 2016 13:04
96 year old sells 55 year old Italian Fiat for Nano !! emkay456 Shifting gears 14 11th May 2009 14:02


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 00:07.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks