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Old 14th August 2011, 17:42   #1
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Exclamation Making my Tata Safari lighter!

Hi Guys ,

I have a TCIC safari. Was on the verge of selling it. Even received a advance on it. But the buyer as well as I personally was having second thoughts about it.
The vehicle now is in the far better condition than before i purchased it.
I now long to hold on to it . The spares are very cheap and its quite inexpensive to maintain it ;even an old one at that.
But i want to try and modify it to become lighter , more fuel efficient and add some HP in the process.
I have following options-
1) remove the third row seats and jump seat.
2) change to lighter alloy wheels and downsize the tyres.
3) Remove the EGR.
4) Remove the stepheny.
5) or install the stephney under chassis to lower the COG.
6) carry lighter jack / tommy setup.
7) Can the floor be made lighter by cutting certain diameter cores/ holes from it leaving the chassis portion intact ? ( like done in steel members to reduce weight without compromising strentgh )
8) can the rear hatch be made lighter ?
9) get rid of the side step / rail as everybody is quite tall and its clumsy anyway to step up via that for very tall people.

I feel lowering this car's gravity , shedding off some excess baggage may make it an interesting vehicle.
I Shall sincerely appreciate advice from experts on the forum about how it can be done ( but please not why it should not be done http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif ).
Regards,
Kedar
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Old 14th August 2011, 19:03   #2
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Default Re: Reducing car weight !

I'm a huge fan of lightening.
Don't go extreme with it since you're not exactly competing in a race where every gram counts.
That said, take it step by step. Reducing weight slightly makes dramatic improvements to performance especially with a vehicle like the Safari which has a power-to-weight ratio of 45bhp per ton.
At a point, you'll have to make a compromise between weight and practicality. Consider that as well.
For starters, remove those seats. If possible, weigh the parts that are coming out. Try driving around and see how it feels. And keep repeating the process with different parts until you're satisfied.
Cheers

Last edited by nitrous : 14th August 2011 at 19:16.
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Old 14th August 2011, 19:19   #3
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Default Re: Reducing car weight !

The difference would be, very honestly, quite negligible.

Your FE may not improve, and even if it does, it's only going to improve by 0.5 km to the litre. Performance too, won't improve greatly. Reducing unsprung weight is a good idea if you're looking at participating in the Raid or other rallies.

What you should ideally do is get the engine thoroughly checked. Get it de-carbonized at the service centre. Check to see if some running parts might need replacement. Get a complete and thorough service done, and the car's performance will improve.

A car that is not serviced regularly generally tends to lack the power that it can otherwise produce.
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Old 14th August 2011, 19:47   #4
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Default Re: Reducing car weight !

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
The difference would be, very honestly, quite negligible.

Your FE may not improve, and even if it does, it's only going to improve by 0.5 km to the litre. Performance too, won't improve greatly. Reducing unsprung weight is a good idea if you're looking at participating in the Raid or other rallies.

What you should ideally do is get the engine thoroughly checked. Get it de-carbonized at the service centre. Check to see if some running parts might need replacement. Get a complete and thorough service done, and the car's performance will improve.

A car that is not serviced regularly generally tends to lack the power that it can otherwise produce.
As i said vehicle is in excellent condition. Its 2004 made TCIC. Engine is super clean as i have just had a piston replaced , also new rings , new gudgeon pins and bushes. ( so basically a manual decarb ) Starts in half crank even in colder areas, so compression is probly good. So is power. Sounds sweet.
Its not as if it lacks in performance ( i mean it does but its by default ...the 2.0 litre hauling the heavy truck ) . The vehicle is serviced regularly. I mean to say it is as good as it can get now.
as i said lowering the CG and shedding excess weight . Visualize as an exercise a situation where the safari sits a little lower , 400/ 450 kg lighter. Less load on the engine less load on the suspension, steering ,the tyres etc.
I dont mind spending some moolah on it. If such a thing was possible without a nip and tuck job. My tyres may come up for replacement so this may not be bad time for a out of the box think.
I feel most tata cars pack a few hundred pounds unnecessarily.
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Old 14th August 2011, 19:51   #5
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Default Re: Reducing car weight !

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
I'm a huge fan of lightening.
Don't go extreme with it since you're not exactly competing in a race where every gram counts.
That said, take it step by step. Reducing weight slightly makes dramatic improvements to performance especially with a vehicle like the Safari which has a power-to-weight ratio of 45bhp per ton.
At a point, you'll have to make a compromise between weight and practicality. Consider that as well.
For starters, remove those seats. If possible, weigh the parts that are coming out. Try driving around and see how it feels. And keep repeating the process with different parts until you're satisfied.
Cheers
Yes tomorrow itself i shall get the front facing 3 rd row seat i 'd installed and also the lone jump seat.
Shall have the stephney removed and see if it sits below body.
In any case shall try to get all 3 weighed and check FE and general feel.
the side steps are alminium so probly not too heavy.
so what next ?
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Old 14th August 2011, 20:04   #6
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Default Re: Reducing car weight !

Here is what you can do, IMO:

1. Switch to alloy-wheels. They do improve the cars handling to an extent and reduces weight at all four corners. But don't switch to smaller tyres. Stick to the stock size.

2. Always make sure that you have a functional stephney in the car at all times. Getting rid of the spare for the sake of reducing weight is never a good idea.

3. Remove the foot-steps and other accessories.

4. If you don't use the 3rd row of seats, then detach them and leave them at home. You're better off without them.

5. Having a car with a good COG will be beneficial on a race-track or a rally. It would not make a difference while you're on your regular commute. So I suggest you retain the original position of the spare-wheel.

6. If you are extremely serious about shedding weight, then I suggest you take the car to a reputed mechanic or a service center and remove the Borg-Warner 4WD setup, although I wouldn't recommend it. (assuming that your car is the 4WD variant) The all-wheel-drive system is quite a heavy one.
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Old 14th August 2011, 20:56   #7
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Default Re: Reducing car weight !

Quote:
Originally Posted by HIGHNOON View Post
Hi Guys ,........
Why do you want to remove EGR? It won't give you any perceivable FE gain & leave you with a Check Engine Light

Get a tyre repair kit + portable inflator if you want to remove stepny. there are blanking plates available if you want to do away with spare tyre mounts on the rear hatch.

I wouldn't recommend removing 4WD. Though the extra diff might itself be 100-150kgs & will result in significant weight loss & monetary gain.

My Alto is 30 kgs lighter if I remove spare wheel, rear seats, cardboard for spare wheel well, extra mats etc. Reduction of this much weight gives me a better engine response with 2 persons onboard & better FE too.

Weight reduction works as good for cars as it does for people. If it gives results on a 0.7 ton Alto, Imagine what wonders it'll do on a 1.5 ton safari!
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Old 14th August 2011, 22:42   #8
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Default Re: Reducing car weight !

How far are you willing to strip it down? Just to give you some ideas.

1) Third row seat
2) Foot steps
3) Stepney subframe
4) Door and boot panels
5) Carpet
6) Roof lining
7) Centre console
8) Audio system if any
9) Side claddings
10) Lighter wheels
11) OE spec tyres

Inside engine compartment
12) Remove sound deadener lining on hood and firewall
13) Replace bulky airbox with a freer flowing and lighter filter assembly
14) AC compressor, condensor and all related stuff
15) EGR (might not provide any real benefits apart from weight savings)
16) Remove extra horns/lights if any

Nothing else coming to my mind right now.
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Old 15th August 2011, 10:07   #9
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Default Re: Reducing car weight !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
How far are you willing to strip it down? Just to give you some ideas.

1) Third row seat - definitely on
2) Foot steps - quite possible. never found it useful personally and kids can scramble up anyway.
3) Stepney subframe - possible with tyre inflator and some repair system
4) Door and boot panels - and put sound deadening mat and a rexin finished mdf panels like in 800 ? interesting
5) Carpet - nope
6) Roof lining - nope ( probly not to heavy anyway. maybe the racks / rails can go.
7) Centre console - nope
8) Audio system if any - possible
9) Side claddings - rather not besides are they heavy ?
10) Lighter wheels - sure
11) OE spec tyres - are 235 -70 - r15. can i not after some weight reduction use the 215-75-R15 ? The lesser traction may result in better economy. Mine is 2WD and i drive sedately. NO offroading except a 20 mts. of bad muddy road on way to my cottage in lonavala.

Inside engine compartment
12) Remove sound deadener lining on hood and firewall - guess not
13) Replace bulky airbox with a freer flowing and lighter filter assembly - excellent idea never thought of that.
14) AC compressor, condensor and all related stuff - no way
15) EGR (might not provide any real benefits apart from weight savings) ?
16) Remove extra horns/lights if any - dont have any. mine is stock.

Nothing else coming to my mind right now.
I am quite interested in reducing the weight of metal ( floor sheet - with blanks and 3M antirust coat afterwards. anybody done this ?
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Old 15th August 2011, 10:08   #10
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Default Re: Reducing car weight !

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustCause View Post
Why do you want to remove EGR? It won't give you any perceivable FE gain & leave you with a Check Engine Light

Get a tyre repair kit + portable inflator if you want to remove stepny. there are blanking plates available if you want to do away with spare tyre mounts on the rear hatch.

I wouldn't recommend removing 4WD. Though the extra diff might itself be 100-150kgs & will result in significant weight loss & monetary gain.

My Alto is 30 kgs lighter if I remove spare wheel, rear seats, cardboard for spare wheel well, extra mats etc. Reduction of this much weight gives me a better engine response with 2 persons onboard & better FE too.

Weight reduction works as good for cars as it does for people. If it gives results on a 0.7 ton Alto, Imagine what wonders it'll do on a 1.5 ton safari!
safari is 2.0 t plus http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif
Plus mine is 2wd
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Old 16th August 2011, 11:23   #11
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Default Re: Reducing car weight !

For a car like safari, after all this weight loss, what would be the effect on the dynamics of the vehicle?

Wont the car be bouncy?
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Old 16th August 2011, 12:23   #12
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Default Re: Reducing car weight !

Do we really need this thread, I think reducing the car weight is one of the possible methods of making a car go faster;hence, discussion on the following thread would add more value.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ding-much.html (How to go faster without spending much)
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Old 16th August 2011, 13:36   #13
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Default

What i think is , if yoy randomly removed parts from the car it would alter the weight distribution and hence alter the balance and hence the handling. I dont think seats and claddings are put in just because its to be there. So how much different would it make ?
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Old 16th August 2011, 20:44   #14
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Default Re: Making my Tata Safari lighter!

Even if you manage to shave off 50 kilos, after carrying out all those steps, it's not going to make any noticeable difference to your performance or efficiency. Think of it this way : In such a heavy 2 tonne vehicle, do you feel any difference between driving alone vis a vis with a 50 kilo kid on the front passenger seat?

The TCIC is a very under-powered vehicle, especially by current standards. If you want to drive a better Safari, swap her for a 3.0 DICOR or better yet, one with the 2.2 common-rail. A world of difference, really. And both are available on the used market (thus, minimising your upgrade cost).
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Old 16th August 2011, 21:41   #15
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Default Re: Making my Tata Safari lighter!

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B
GTO[/b];2469748]Even if you manage to shave off 50 kilos, after carrying ).
@ GTO
Hi, I was really thinking of shedding a couple of hundred kilos at least.
It may be possible with some nip and tuck , but probly not worth the cost.
My endevour was anyway to make it more efficient.Not at the cost of handling. I only thought Lowering the mass lower may make it ride a bit better.
As far as passenger weight is concerned she rides best with the extra weight, and i usually drive alone.
M & M after so many tries has not managed to really get scorpio dynamics to match the engine & drivetrain.
I have neither the time and the resources to have an elaborate trial and error method. i just wish i get some expert who tells me its mechanically feasible to simply reduce the ground clearance.
The resale of the car is poor now , but she is reliable, not really sluggish for my kind of driving. The spares are surprisingly cheap as cheap as a mid level sedan like accent .
My fabricator & mechanic was not too enthused by the idea of R & D on the safari.http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
Probably thinks its not worth it and he may be right.
The only grouse is i have it. Its not going to fetch too much and its in very good condition. It would ' ve been great if i could 've managed to change the dynamics and efficiency.
If i do go ahead with it, i'll maintain a log and share it on the forum.

Last edited by HIGHNOON : 16th August 2011 at 21:50.
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