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Old 22nd August 2011, 03:35   #1
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Default An Indica needs your help

Hello friends, I have an indica V2 DLE (2001 model) which has done 82k km till date. It has a few problems that I want to rectify and also planning a few upgrades. Here is a list of problems that I know as of now. Solutions that I can think of are in brackets. Please provide your suggestions and correct me where I am wrong.

1. Low pickup in hot weather especially low-end torque is missing. Moving the car (either with full load or AC on) from a standstill is a pain. Fuel economy is flat 14-16 kmpl irrespective of whether it is a highway run or in city drive. Current max speed is 120 km/h while last time when I checked on expressway the car did above 150 on odo although that was 2 years and 15000kms earlier (Fuel pump service or calibration needed.)

2. Engine is running a bit hotter than usual. It reaches to halfway mark very quickly and stays there or a bit higher (depending on weather). Radiator fan is getting on at right time i.e. Somewhere between ľ and Ĺ mark on temp needle and it is working almost continuously. ( First I will get the radiator flushed even then if problem arises I guess head work is needed)

3. Clutch was replaced about 2k km ago as original was fried. Job was done by a roadside mechanic and new one dose not have the feel of a new clutch. Donít know whether he changed the clutch bearing and cable or not. Clutch pedal also have quite sideways play. Is it possible to use the same clutch plates if I get it opened to check the bearing? (Get the clutch cable setting adjusted, if not worked out will get a new clutch. should I change the clutch pedal?)

4. Putting in first gear is very hard work. Reverse makes sound while engaging. Others donít have any feel except second which seems fine. One canít even tell by feel whether the fourth and fifth got engaged or not. ( mechanic says clutch setting will improve the gear change but i donít think it will make any difference in 3rd 4th or 5thís feel and I have no idea about how to rectify it so suggestions please)

5. A very deep sound from suspension that can also be felt in feet even at very low speed and on uneven roads with good surface. This sound is like if something very heavy is hitting some body part but there is rubber in-between. (Showed the car to different mechanics and some said ďbush kat gaye hain naye dalege, baki to kholne ke baad hi pata chalegaĒ while others either canít hear the sound or said ďIndica hai kuch to bajega hiĒ. (I canít figure out what is this sound because this is different than the metallic rattle that comes when something in suspension/steering system wears out. Suspension is only 25k km old and car is never overloaded or driven on bad roads since then )

6. Radiator fan is blowing fuses and makes enough vibration and noise as a badly maintained maruti 800 engine. Vibration can be felt in whole car. Even the fuse socket has melted (TASS guy told me that we will put a new separate special fuse and the problem will be solved but was unable to tell me why it is happening). FYI fan motor was changed in april 2009 as the old one was gone.

7. This is a weird one because it is very random and I canít reproduce it. Sometimes when key is rotated to start the engine it behaves as if the battery is down. Sometimes when this happens self keeps rotating the engine even if the key is moved to off slot and taken out. This happens for around 30 sec to 1.30 min then it stops. (Weak self and solenoid problem. Self-motor needs service)

8. At the speeds between 60 and 80 car feels like jumping up and down, not very pronounced but quite noticeable especially between 65 to 75kmph. ( mechanics always say itís the road but I am sure it is something else. Front tyres are only 3k old while the rears are old but sidewalls are in good condition. There is no sideways wobbling or steering vibration even at 120 km/h. Have no idea what can cause it)

9. Recently the car was parked outside during continuous rains for 2-3 days (you donít have option if you are in a city like Noida) without cover. After that when I got in it smelled terrible so I checked and found water under rear foot mats and carpet beneath them was wet. ( mechanics have no idea about the place from where water can reach there neither do I, so suggestions again)

10. This one is not a problem just a thought. Lately I am getting a feeling that front wheels lock quite easily during heavy breaking ( like on highways when u saw a cyclist or a cow trying to cross the road in front of you while cruising around 80-100kph). By any chance is it possible that rear drums are not working properly which in turn causes the weight balance towards front and the skidding. Rear brake liners are original and hand break works perfectly even on very steep slope. This is just a thought so please forget it if this whole idea seems like a joke.

Now the upgrades partÖ

1. Is it possible to install FICD system on this car? If yes then what are the things that I should know about.

2. I want to install the heater that comes standard with DLX model. I know it can be done but donít know whether doing so will cause any complexities in future or is it safe and hassle free. So please guide me.

3. Is it possible to install a voltmeter or any other device to monitor the battery condition? If mechanics canít do it, I will do it myself if you guys can provide ideas on how to do it and whether it will be useful. I also want to install a tachometer (something like the maruti A-STAR) if possible( donít know whether this car supports a techo or not)

4. I need seat covers with better thigh and lumber support. And if possible a bit of height increase in front seats (about 1- 1.5 inches). I donít know where to look out for such a job and whether such job will be able to serve its purpose after some use (deformation in shape of material used etc.)

5. I want to damp the car to filter noises especially engine and road noise. I think I need to get firewall, floors, trunk and roof damped. I have read the whole damping and alternative damping material threads and some other damping threads too but didnít find much about firewall and engine compartment damping. Please give some suggestions regarding that and where it can be done in NCR. I want to make engine sound as distant as possible.

6. What are the places from where a mouse can enter the cabin? Lately mice have made this car their den and all the plastic panels and seatbelts have bite marks. Is it possible to cover such places with steel mesh? (Will changing the Ganesha idol to Shiva or Durga idol help )

Well if you are still reading I can say for sure that you are a true tbhpian. Please share your knowledge and experience on the problems that my car is encountering and if possible approx. cost to get these problems fixed (especially labour charges as I am not going through TASS route where it is not necessary. They gave me an estimate of around 60000 just for fixing the car, no upgrades included). Members from NCR please give me no or address of good mechanic/garage (finding one is very though as most of them just know how to take things out and put them back with no knowledge/ ability to think what may be causing the problem).

PS if any more info is needed just ask.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 11:10   #2
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Default Re: An Indica needs your help

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Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
Well if you are still reading I can say for sure that you are a true tbhpian.
This last one really made me smile! Its great gift to be humurous even in the middle of trouble!

I couldnt think that one car can have all these issues. I've heard my friends saying two-three issues, but not so many. I guess you are a bit unfortunate to have too many issues together..

Still, I'm surprised that you want to invest more into it?

For the first two issues, I suspect that the engine cooling is not effective enough. Are there scales in the radiator tubes? In such cases, the engine could run at higher temperatures. But if you were using proper coolants (instead of plain water) I guess you shouldnt have the scaling issues. But if you have not checked, better to have it checked. If the engine cooling is not effective, I have seen that power drops.

As of now, I dont have answers to others. If I get some clues from my friend will update this thread.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 11:32   #3
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Default Re: An Indica needs your help

My suggestions are underlined

1. Low pickup in hot weather ;Current max speed is 120 km/h while last time when I checked on expressway the car did above 150 on odo although that was 2 years and 15000kms earlier Fuel pump service or calibration needed - true

2. Engine is running a bit hotter than usual. It reaches to halfway mark very quickly and stays there or a bit higher (depending on weather). Radiator fan is getting on at right time i.e. Somewhere between ľ and Ĺ mark on temp needle and it is working almost continuously. as long as the temperature remain around halfway mark don't bother;have you got coolant repalced at regular intervals earlier?

3. Clutch was replaced about 2k km ago as original was fried. Job was done by a roadside mechanic and new one dose not have the feel of a new clutch. Donít know whether he changed the clutch bearing and cable or not. Clutch pedal also have quite sideways play. Is it possible to use the same clutch plates if I get it opened to check the bearing? (Get the clutch cable setting adjusted, if not worked out will get a new clutch. should I change the clutch pedal? was the pressure plate changed?

4. Putting in first gear is very hard work. Reverse makes sound while engaging. Others donít have any feel except second which seems fine. One canít even tell by feel whether the fourth and fifth got engaged or not. ( mechanic says clutch setting will improve the gear change but i donít think it will make any difference in 3rd 4th or 5thís feel and I have no idea about how to rectify it so suggestions please)a new clutch should improve gear engage ; looks like your "new clutch plate" is not ok


7. This is a weird one because it is very random and I canít reproduce it. Sometimes when key is rotated to start the engine it behaves as if the battery is down. Sometimes when this happens self keeps rotating the engine even if the key is moved to off slot and taken out. This happens for around 30 sec to 1.30 min then it stops. (Weak self and solenoid problem. Self-motor needs service) old model indica starters are bad;


9. Recently the car was parked outside during continuous rains for 2-3 days (you donít have option if you are in a city like Noida) without cover. After that when I got in it smelled terrible so I checked and found water under rear foot mats and carpet beneath them was wet. ( mechanics have no idea about the place from where water can reach there neither do I, so suggestions again) - door beadings/partially open windows/an improperly fitted windscreen(if windscreen was changed sometime)

Now the upgrades partÖ

1. Is it possible to install FICD system on this car?not as far as I know

2. I want to install the heater that comes standard with DLX model. I know it can be done but donít know whether doing so will cause any complexities in future or is it safe and hassle free. So please guide me.

3. Is it possible to install a voltmeter or any other device to monitor the battery condition? you can periodically check teh voltage across battery with gaadi off (12.5V normal) and gaadi on(13.8-14.2 volts)
4. I need seat covers with better thigh and lumber support. And if possible a bit of height increase in front seats (about 1- 1.5 inches). I donít know where to look out for such a job and whether such job will be able to serve its purpose after some use (deformation in shape of material used etc.) get the seat foam reinforced and seat cover redone;a good upholstery guy should be able to do it.approx 6-8k

6. What are the places from where a mouse can enter the cabin? Lately mice have made this car their den and all the plastic panels and seatbelts have bite marks. Is it possible to cover such places with steel mesh? (Will changing the Ganesha idol to Shiva or Durga idol help ) - can think of some openings in the floorpan OR the engine firewall or the ac fresh air intake
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Old 22nd August 2011, 13:14   #4
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Default Re: An Indica needs your help

If the coolant has not been replaced for long, better to get the radiator pressure cleaned at a proper service station. This will prevent big overheating problems that are very common in V2 Indicas. Or if it was changed in the past 1-2 yrs, a DIY job is possible. Use a radiator flush (i used Cyclo) follow instructions. Drain coolant. Then disconnect the two pipes which attach to the reservoir, and attach a normal garden hose to the radiator drain plug (located at the radiator bottom on the left). This will dislodge all the sludge from the radiator pipes and water pump, prepare to be shocked at the kind of stuff which comes out!

If you plan on keeping this car past 100K, then ask your mechanic to check the water pump at the time of changing timing belt. It can be changed as a preventive measure.

Starter and fuel pump repairs/checkup is best done at your local Lucas-TVS shop. They are more efficient at the job than TASC. Do not go to local mechanics for these.

Regarding the entry of mice, there are two holes located in the firewall near to the clutch cable on the driver's side. Normally there is a rubber cap sealing these holes, it is likely that has fallen off. The holes will be better visible from the front with the hood open.

The people at Lucas-TVS will be the best ones to help you about installing FICD

Last edited by adityamunshi : 22nd August 2011 at 13:20.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 13:36   #5
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Default Re: An Indica needs your help

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
1. Low pickup in hot weather especially low-end torque is missing. Moving the car (either with full load or AC on) from a standstill is a pain. Fuel economy is flat 14-16 kmpl irrespective of whether it is a highway run or in city drive. Current max speed is 120 km/h while last time when I checked on expressway the car did above 150 on odo although that was 2 years and 15000kms earlier (Fuel pump service or calibration needed.)
check the clutch and clutch plate

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
2. Engine is running a bit hotter than usual. It reaches to halfway mark very quickly and stays there or a bit higher (depending on weather). Radiator fan is getting on at right time i.e. Somewhere between ľ and Ĺ mark on temp needle and it is working almost continuously. ( First I will get the radiator flushed even then if problem arises I guess head work is needed)
well I think this is normal

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Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
3. Clutch was replaced about 2k km ago as original was fried. Job was done by a roadside mechanic and new one dose not have the feel of a new clutch. Donít know whether he changed the clutch bearing and cable or not. Clutch pedal also have quite sideways play. Is it possible to use the same clutch plates if I get it opened to check the bearing? (Get the clutch cable setting adjusted, if not worked out will get a new clutch. should I change the clutch pedal?)
did you bought the OEM part or Local clutch and plate. I doubt that. hence problem 1 & 3

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Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
4. Putting in first gear is very hard work. Reverse makes sound while engaging. Others donít have any feel except second which seems fine. One canít even tell by feel whether the fourth and fifth got engaged or not. ( mechanic says clutch setting will improve the gear change but i donít think it will make any difference in 3rd 4th or 5thís feel and I have no idea about how to rectify it so suggestions please)
I again suspect clutch bad or gone, I am not sure here, when was gear oil changed last?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
5. A very deep sound from suspension that can also be felt in feet even at very low speed and on uneven roads with good surface. This sound is like if something very heavy is hitting some body part but there is rubber in-between. (Showed the car to different mechanics and some said ďbush kat gaye hain naye dalege, baki to kholne ke baad hi pata chalegaĒ while others either canít hear the sound or said ďIndica hai kuch to bajega hiĒ. (I canít figure out what is this sound because this is different than the metallic rattle that comes when something in suspension/steering system wears out. Suspension is only 25k km old and car is never overloaded or driven on bad roads since then )
This is rubbish, I had Pre v2 Indica and never had this problem in 1 lakh km of ownership, get the suspension check at TASC

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Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
6. Radiator fan is blowing fuses and makes enough vibration and noise as a badly maintained maruti 800 engine. Vibration can be felt in whole car. Even the fuse socket has melted (TASS guy told me that we will put a new separate special fuse and the problem will be solved but was unable to tell me why it is happening). FYI fan motor was changed in april 2009 as the old one was gone.
Special fuse can cause more worst problem. they will just put it heavy fuse. This could be because of some short in wiring. get the all electrical checked thoroughly.

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Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
7. This is a weird one because it is very random and I canít reproduce it. Sometimes when key is rotated to start the engine it behaves as if the battery is down. Sometimes when this happens self keeps rotating the engine even if the key is moved to off slot and taken out. This happens for around 30 sec to 1.30 min then it stops. (Weak self and solenoid problem. Self-motor needs service)
No idea :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
8. At the speeds between 60 and 80 car feels like jumping up and down, not very pronounced but quite noticeable especially between 65 to 75kmph. ( mechanics always say itís the road but I am sure it is something else. Front tyres are only 3k old while the rears are old but sidewalls are in good condition. There is no sideways wobbling or steering vibration even at 120 km/h. Have no idea what can cause it)
when the was wheel balancing done last?

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Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
9. Recently the car was parked outside during continuous rains for 2-3 days (you donít have option if you are in a city like Noida) without cover. After that when I got in it smelled terrible so I checked and found water under rear foot mats and carpet beneath them was wet. ( mechanics have no idea about the place from where water can reach there neither do I, so suggestions again)
Most probably side beeding of doors

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
1. Is it possible to install FICD system on this car? If yes then what are the things that I should know about.
Yes, TASC people can do it, make sure get the full kit. I go it installed in my Indica, Pickup with AC on was improved drastically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
2. I want to install the heater that comes standard with DLX model. I know it can be done but donít know whether doing so will cause any complexities in future or is it safe and hassle free. So please guide me.
again pretty simple change, will not cause much load on engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
3. Is it possible to install a voltmeter or any other device to monitor the battery condition? If mechanics canít do it, I will do it myself if you guys can provide ideas on how to do it and whether it will be useful. I also want to install a tachometer (something like the maruti A-STAR) if possible( donít know whether this car supports a techo or not)
There are many after market stuff available, I have one which I can directly insert in 12V socket and see the voltage
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Old 23rd August 2011, 23:34   #6
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Default Re: An Indica needs your help

Note from Mod : Please use the "THANKS" button, instead of typing a post to say just that.

Last edited by GTO : 24th August 2011 at 16:59.
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Old 24th August 2011, 06:00   #7
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Default Re: An Indica needs your help

Its nice to see someone is still using the 2001 Indica (Close to 10 years). I also had a 2001 Indica which was sold in 2008. Is this a V2 model or a V1 model. I think in Diesel in 2001 the V2 started coming from Jan onward.

Although i had an Indica Lxi (Petrol top end) some of the problems listed above were common and hence my response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
2. Engine is running a bit hotter than usual. It reaches to halfway mark very quickly and stays there or a bit higher (depending on weather). Radiator fan is getting on at right time i.e. Somewhere between ľ and Ĺ mark on temp needle and it is working almost continuously. ( First I will get the radiator flushed even then if problem arises I guess head work is needed)
This is a perennial problem with Indicas of those times. In my car the temperature meter would cross the half way mark (a little) and then stay there. Occasionally it also shot above it. The heat was so much that it could be felt on the feet (near the accelerator/brake pedal) and all around the front seats. The car had multiple stays at Concorde multiple times we got the radiator fixed, the radiator fan fuse would blow up every time until the SA decided to put the higher capacity fuse. The radiator fan itself was repaired multiple times and finally it used to make quiet a racket when it ran. I could feel the fans vibrations on the steering. In the final stages before i decided to sell the car we used to run the car without AC as with AC the engine got heated up quiet fast.

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Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
6. Radiator fan is blowing fuses and makes enough vibration and noise as a badly maintained maruti 800 engine. Vibration can be felt in whole car. Even the fuse socket has melted (TASS guy told me that we will put a new separate special fuse and the problem will be solved but was unable to tell me why it is happening). FYI fan motor was changed in april 2009 as the old one was gone.
Same as described above, the final rewinding that was done on the radiator fan lasted little longer but would vibrate very heavily.

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Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
9. Recently the car was parked outside during continuous rains for 2-3 days (you donít have option if you are in a city like Noida) without cover. After that when I got in it smelled terrible so I checked and found water under rear foot mats and carpet beneath them was wet. ( mechanics have no idea about the place from where water can reach there neither do I, so suggestions again)
Although this has never happened on my Indica i saw many Indicas close by which had water getting in problem. This was one of the biggest problems in V1 Indica untill Tata fixed it in V2. If yours is a V2 indica possible causes could be the door beading gone bad or brittle so as the water is getting in. Also what i saw from my experience is the boot door hinges on top would very soon get rusted and saw some cases of water coming in from there.

A question, don't get me wrong, we all love our cars but why are you not thinking about selling the car?
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Old 24th August 2011, 10:39   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
9. Recently the car was parked outside during continuous rains for 2-3 days (you donít have option if you are in a city like Noida) without cover. After that when I got in it smelled terrible so I checked and found water under rear foot mats and carpet beneath them was wet. ( mechanics have no idea about the place from where water can reach there neither do I, so suggestions again)
i think youve got enough to solve your other problems.
starter motor, and clutch(OE), were what i thought.
as for the above, was there water in the front footwell too?
Check the drainage lining between the windscreen and the bonnet(the plastic bit right below the wipers.), to see if there is some stuff/leaves/hard dirt) packed up below it.
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Old 24th August 2011, 11:01   #9
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old model indica starters
The old model Indicas used to come with Lucas starters(just check) which I am told don't work well in hot weather+hot engine when more cranking is needed.

You can service the starter and see
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Old 24th August 2011, 13:45   #10
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3. Clutch was replaced about 2k km ago as original was fried. Job was done by a roadside mechanic and new one dose not have the feel of a new clutch. Donít know whether he changed the clutch bearing and cable or not. Clutch pedal also have quite sideways play. Is it possible to use the same clutch plates if I get it opened to check the bearing? (Get the clutch cable setting adjusted, if not worked out will get a new clutch. should I change the clutch pedal?)



4. Putting in first gear is very hard work. Reverse makes sound while engaging. Others donít have any feel except second which seems fine. One canít even tell by feel whether the fourth and fifth got engaged or not. ( mechanic says clutch setting will improve the gear change but i donít think it will make any difference in 3rd 4th or 5thís feel and I have no idea about how to rectify it so suggestions please)
3.1. Have pressure plate inspected and changed if necessary.
3.2. Check for possible leaks in clutch master or slave cylinders or hydraulic line
4.1. First, fourth & fifth gear problem could be due to shift linkage issue. Reverse gear problem could be because of clutch not releasing fully - therefore leading to clashing gears and "grinding noise". Getting the clutch fully serviced could help. One suggestion - have the transmission dropped from the engine and properly inspected for any problems.

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Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
6. Radiator fan is blowing fuses and makes enough vibration and noise as a badly maintained maruti 800 engine. Vibration can be felt in whole car. Even the fuse socket has melted (TASS guy told me that we will put a new separate special fuse and the problem will be solved but was unable to tell me why it is happening). FYI fan motor was changed in april 2009 as the old one was gone.
6.1. Have the wiring to the radiator fan motor checked thoroughly, if needed replace it. In a car of this age it is possible you may be having shorts intermittently causing the problem.
6.2. Secondly , change the mounts for the radiator fan , and alignment of the radiator fan blades checked - this could help in vibration reduction.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
9. Recently the car was parked outside during continuous rains for 2-3 days (you donít have option if you are in a city like Noida) without cover. After that when I got in it smelled terrible so I checked and found water under rear foot mats and carpet beneath them was wet. ( mechanics have no idea about the place from where water can reach there neither do I, so suggestions again)
9.1. As someone already suggested, there is a drainage hole for rain-water between the windscreen and bonnet. Sometimes leaves, twigs and other debris gets into this and clogs it up, leaving the water no other escape route but into the cabin.

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10. This one is not a problem just a thought. Lately I am getting a feeling that front wheels lock quite easily during heavy breaking ( like on highways when u saw a cyclist or a cow trying to cross the road in front of you while cruising around 80-100kph). By any chance is it possible that rear drums are not working properly which in turn causes the weight balance towards front and the skidding. Rear brake liners are original and hand break works perfectly even on very steep slope. This is just a thought so please forget it if this whole idea seems like a joke.
10.1. Have your brake pads and drums cleaned.
10.2. Check for any leaks in the brake hydraulics
10.3 Have the brakes bled properly.
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Old 24th August 2011, 15:22   #11
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Hi, the problem you have mentioned are quit common with Indicas, some have solution some do not. Here goes.
The low pick up when hot is common with engines done 75000km and above, the temperature in the bay actually is more as compared to hence the engine is new, have tested it with a Digital [industrial] thermometer.
The Fuel pump needs calibration/service every 75000 km according to service manual.
The fan fuse blowing is an electrical issue, no one can explain, but the truth is even my is running a external fuse [not done by A.S.S. but my electrician]. My deduction is, the wiring and the FAN motors are not that good quality [cost cutting], hence the electrical [wiring] and the motor [bush bearing], degrade as time passes, and draws more current than the designed specs.
Gear change difficulty , can be due to clutch/pressure plate ware, also check the gear control rods from the lever to the box, the joint gets a play over use and need to be tighten, bushes changed.
The starter motor has a solenoid that goes bad [the spring] and hence this happens, service of the motor and replacement of parts like solenoid should solve this.
The water in the car in rains is due the outer window seal [the bottom one] going bad the water going through the inside of the door and come out to the internal panel [bottom]. Some time the beading [lining of the door], near the A-pillar going bad and water penetrate from there. Also check the ac intake, it is under the wipers[ the grill below the front windscreen] , there are pipes going from there and feeding the Ac, fresh air, water gets in from there, too.
The locking of front wheels [the feel ] is when the rear breaks are worn out and are not engaging completely.
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Old 28th August 2011, 20:22   #12
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6) We own two Indigos viz. Indigo LS (2004) which has run 2,23,000+kms and Indigo XL Grand Dicor (May 2007) which has run 1,36,900+ kms. The 40A Radiator Fuse got burnt (and stuck) in its socket in both the cars. The TASS had routed separately two wires from the wiring harness for both the cars and had stick (with PVC Tape) the Fuse with the same rating. The Fuse did not face any problem after that.
I am unable to understand why did the same problem crop in both the cars.

Upgrades--

1) Your's is DLE Model i.e with AC. So there should be a FICD pre-equipped. So why do you want to install a FICD again?

2) What kind of heater do you want to install?
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