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Old 23rd August 2011, 15:46   #16
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

How do we know of the end-of-life of the pads? I believe in the disc brake setup, there is a very loud squealing noise that indicates the brake pads are worn out. this is like a safety measure - the brakes will still function adequately, but need urgent replacement (within like 100-200 km or so).
I have experienced this in the BMW and the civic as well. also read about it someplace. can some experts verify?

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake#Brake_squeal
Finally, some lining wear indicators, located either as a semi-metallic layer within the brake pad material or with an external squealer "sensor", are also designed to squeal when the lining is due for replacement.

Last edited by zeddo : 23rd August 2011 at 15:52. Reason: added wiki link
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Old 23rd August 2011, 15:57   #17
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeddo View Post
How do we know of the end-of-life of the pads? I believe in the disc brake setup, there is a very loud squealing noise that indicates the brake pads are worn out. this is like a safety measure - the brakes will still function adequately, but need urgent replacement (within like 100-200 km or so).
I have experienced this in the BMW and the civic as well. also read about it someplace. can some experts verify?

from Disc brake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Finally, some lining wear indicators, located either as a semi-metallic layer within the brake pad material or with an external squealer "sensor", are also designed to squeal when the lining is due for replacement.
Yes when the brakes start squealing they indicate they need urgent attention but have enough life for few hundred kms. I am a kind of person who always carries back the replaced parts back home, all the cars i have owned in past had this thing, from the bare basic Zen to the ABS equipped Elantra.

AFAIK the BMW 3 series displays worn out pads in MFD.

Last edited by .anshuman : 23rd August 2011 at 15:58.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 15:58   #18
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Also try & search in international fiat forums about this. You might wanna check in team-fiat.co.in as well which is exclusively for Fiat owners. Next time also make sure to take the opinion of another A$$ about the life of brake pads before the service schedule.
yup, i checked on a few international sites and team-fiat as well. This seems to be an universal issue with fiat punto & linea ! Or should i say, a service strategy (read scam)

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Kri$hna, My Punto has done over 40k kms now and is still running on the Brake Pads that came fitted to the car.
How much of it was in city and on highways ? I am confused with this issue only because none of my other cars ever had such a frequent change of brake pads ! In fact i am always worried about suspension/lower arms because of my driving style on pothole filled hyd roads

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
Your service center guy seems to be taking advantage of the "replace if required" phrase mentioned in Fiat service manual. The manual doesn't say you have to change every 15k kms.
exactly !

Quote:
We weren't even advised a change of brake pads at 15k Kms. I specifically asked whether it would be better to change it, but the SA said, the checking is more from a safety point of view, as the car has a long service interval by Indian standards. He said, unless your brake usage is very heavy, they should last upto 45k kms.
But, in few other forums I see people talking about replacing discs & pads because of their negligence in replacing the pads at proper time ( thats @30K) Even the other owner I met today was talking about this very issue!


Quote:
But the point remains, ABS kicks in for probably 5-10% of the total braking maneuvers. Thus the total extra wear due to ABS will be minimum.

Like I said, your SA is just thrusting this on you to make some money
In regular driving scenarios, ABS rarely kicks in and I am not a panic brake guy, so I rarely slam the brakes hard enough to let ABS intervene.

Are the brake pads same for ABS & Non-ABS versions ? How is it that these last long on non-ABS versions ? Any manual setting is really there (i guess that would increase gap between pads & disc, which isnt safe) ?
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Old 23rd August 2011, 16:03   #19
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

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Originally Posted by kri$hna View Post
How much of it was in city and on highways ? I am confused with this issue only because none of my other cars ever had such a frequent change of brake pads ! In fact i am always worried about suspension/lower arms because of my driving style on pothole filled hyd roads
For the first 15-20k kms it was around 60:40 City and Highways, then i handed over car to my Dad so now it does 30:70 City and Highways.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 18:04   #20
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
We weren't even advised a change of brake pads at 15k Kms. I specifically asked whether it would be better to change it, but the SA said, the checking is more from a safety point of view, as the car has a long service interval by Indian standards. He said, unless your brake usage is very heavy, they should last upto 45k kms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Yes the brakes in my car are perfectly fine.
Infact modern cars have a mechanism in disc pads which starts making a shrill sound when the pads are worn out, the sound is not due to worn out pad but a indicator pin designed to make shrill sound to indicate wear.
Considering my driving style, I have never had any panic braking in the past year of driving, though driving largely in B'lore I am forced to use the brakes more often than I would like, even though I typically first opt for engine braking.
I hear no noise so far from the pads during braking and find the brakes as effective as they ever have been! Methinks, I should go back to the SA and recheck once again if a change is indeed needed.
More often than not, its the doubts these SAs induce in our minds that makes us follow their advise!
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Old 23rd August 2011, 18:18   #21
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

I have Punto 1.3 MJD Emotion(ABS variant). I had changed my brake pads @ 15K Kms.They had started making a squealing noise. I attributed this to the way my brother drives. He brakes very hard.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 21:10   #22
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

Hi,
Brake pads are easy to change. You can do it yourself.

My suggestion: Buy a new set. Eyeball it. Measure it. Take out your old ones and compare. Then decide.

Even better, put in the new ones and then take it for service. See what your SA says then.

How often have you felt the ABS kick in?

If worn, do replace.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 23rd August 2011, 23:11   #23
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

My original brake pads are @ 35K kms now. Can you visually inspect your brake pads and see if they are worn out? A pic would be of great help
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Old 23rd August 2011, 23:17   #24
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

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Originally Posted by Soccerfan View Post
My original brake pads are @ 35K kms now. Can you visually inspect your brake pads and see if they are worn out? A pic would be of great help
Yes, as I mentioned earlier, the friction material on the pads should have a minimum thickness of atleast 3mm.
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Old 24th August 2011, 08:29   #25
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

Post Deleted by the Team-BHP Support : SMS / Slang is STRICTLY prohibited on this community. We would much appreciate your using full & proper English in posts, for the benefit of other forum users.

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Last edited by GTO : 24th August 2011 at 16:41.
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Old 24th August 2011, 12:38   #26
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

ABS has absolutely nothing to do with wearing out of brake pads. 99% of times, ABS does not kick in while using brakes anyway! It's like saying My dashboard plastics are fading and developing cracks because I have airbags. Or My wheel alignment goes haywire every 3000 km because I have power steering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeddo View Post
How do we know of the end-of-life of the pads?
Brake pad thickness can be visually and manually checked, and there is a metal wear strip incorporated into ALL brake pads to give audible feedback when the pads are worn down below acceptable limits (though squealing can occur for other reasons as well).

Call the SA's bluff, ask to visually inspect brake pads and compare them with new ones before accepting that they need changing. Even with severe brake usage, IMO brake pads ought to last out at least 20-25k km.
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Old 24th August 2011, 13:27   #27
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

I don't think having an ABS equipped car means more brake pad wear, I have a Safari with ABS and my brake pads have not been changed even after 50k kms, during the last service(45k kms) I had infact asked the pads to be changed, but the SA told me that the pads are still having sufficient useful life, so I feel, brake pad wear is completely dependent on the driving style.
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Old 24th August 2011, 13:41   #28
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

ABS is just a device to enhance the already existing braking system (or in other words, magnifies the existing safety system), which in turn keeps the car in control during panic braking. It surely does not wear out the brake pads faster.
In that logic, today's cars, with all the added electronics should be wearing out the battery faster, right!
It depends completely on driving habits if a part is wearing out before expected. Worse come worse, it could be due to a design flaw or faulty mechanicals.

Last edited by mb_jg : 24th August 2011 at 13:42.
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Old 24th August 2011, 14:08   #29
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

One specific question. Did you ever happen to get the ABS to engage. if not then having an ABS is irrelevant. ABS is like airbags - good to have but you hope they are never needed. When I was road testing the Civic and the Corolla try as I might I could not get the Anti-Blockier to come on.

My Santro is an AT (far higher brake pad wear) but even here I happily get 20-25,000 per set. Ditto for my earlier Zen AT and Esteem MT (pre-ventilated disc days).

To me the only criteria is to check on the pad wear. IF enough material is there then no need to change. Yes, pads and linings can delaminate in about six years but I am yet to see pads lasting anywhere near to that. The squeal can come from the pad base rubbing on the disc (BAD) or the small metal indicator clip rubbing against the disc. The latter is normal and a warning to change the pads.
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Old 24th August 2011, 16:46   #30
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

It's important to step back & think about how frequently the average car actually uses its ABS system.

Once a week?
Once a month?
Once in 3 months?
Once in 6 months?

Remember, the ABS will kick in only in a braking condition where your wheels are locking. That usually means slamming on the pedal at speed. Just how often do you do that?

The service advisor in question needs a change of career, as he clearly doesn't know what he's talking about to a hatchback owner.

However, in a track prepared Ferrari / Porsche / exotic, I am inclined to think that the traction control / ABS would indeed lead to faster wear & tear of pads.
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