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Old 24th August 2011, 17:06   #31
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

Unless you drive like a bat from hell there's no way those pads are going to wear off in 15 k kms. This is reason why FIAT is loosing clients. You are being bluffed.
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Old 24th August 2011, 17:06   #32
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

My Punto E+ MJD( with ABS ) has done 28,000 km , still running on original pads.

There have been some complaints on the teamfiat forum on the low life of Punto/Linea pads. However, some owners have had a good life from the pads as well.

I had left an enquiry on the Bosch India website on Punto aftermarket pads.Got a call from Bosch and they told me that KBX( KBX is a bosch company) pads were available for the Punto , and that he would get back to me on the pricing etc. - but he never did.

Easiest is to take out the wheel and inspect the thickness yourself to get a rough idea.

If the SA is replacing, insist on getting the old pads back.

Last edited by sdp1975 : 24th August 2011 at 17:08.
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Old 24th August 2011, 20:49   #33
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

A few pointers I'd like to add after having used both abs and non abs cars.

First, as others also cited, ABS only kicks in when your wheels are about to lock. So it depends on how you drive, if you drive hard/brake harder, the ABS will kick in regularly; if you do it occasionally, the ABS will come in rarely.

Second, when you buy the car, the brake discs and brake pads are new and hence the first set of brake pads last longer. A car with ABS leads to uneven wear of discs because when ABS kicks in, the brake pads are made to release the discs as soon as they are about to lock (the pressure is taken off) and then again try to grip it (the pressure is increased again).. this happens from 10-15 times a second. This leads to uneven wear of discs. You may sometimes also feel vibration in steering while braking if the discs are worn unevenly.

Third, the uneven wear of discs leads to the next set of brake pads also wearing unevenly and hence the shorter life span compared to the previous one. Therefore, it is advisable to face the discs before you install new pads, especially in cars with ABS..

The first set of pads in my cedia lasted for 30k kms (had another 15k kms of life in it but they went hard), before the second set I got the discs faced and the second set lasted 26k kms (with lot of heavy braking), before changing to third, I didnt get the discs faced and hence the pads lasted only 14k kms (the outer ones on both the front discs were fine for another 15k kms but the inner ones went bad because of uneven disc. And now the fouth set is over 6k kms old (i got the discs faced) and their current condition tells me that they should last around 25k kms in total..

I would suggest that you take advice of independent garage before you get the pads changed. If the garage says that you need replacement, get the pads changed (from ASC or independent garage, up to you).

Lastly, do you by any chance run on under pressure tyres? Braking on under pressure tyres also leads to uneven and fast wear of pads..

Under normal day to day driving, the pads should last atleast 25-30k kms at minimum..

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
However, in a track prepared Ferrari / Porsche / exotic, I am inclined to think that the traction control / ABS would indeed lead to faster wear & tear of pads.
Lolzz.. remember the EVO, Rehaan and you drove, had worn off pads and second set of tyres at just 7k kms..

Last edited by gaurav_chopra04 : 24th August 2011 at 20:58.
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Old 24th August 2011, 21:01   #34
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

Here are my thoughts:

Unless you push the vehicle to the limit almost always, the ABS will not activate.

If and when the ABS goes active, effectively the pad wear should reduce because the contact time between the pad and disk is reduced. Same theory behind an LED lasting longer if pulsed.

I think such stories are given rise to by service guys to whom ABS is still a myth.

As for uneven disk wear, that might be caused by EBD and not ABS. Some cars have both, some only ABS. Again EBD causing uneven wear is negligible unless the car is constantly driven in a manner where EBD kicks in often.

So going by logic, I won't replace my pads until and unless I'm convinced they need replacing. Visually inspect a new pad so that you know what sort of wear we should looking at while replacing it.

Last edited by Tassem : 24th August 2011 at 21:03.
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Old 24th August 2011, 21:07   #35
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tassem View Post
As for uneven disk wear, that might be caused by EBD and not ABS. Some cars have both, some only ABS. Again EBD causing uneven wear is negligible unless the car is constantly driven in a manner where EBD kicks in often.
The swift has EBD, but no one has reported any issues of uneven wear of discs in swift.. But the civic and cedia has EBD and ABS and most civic and cedia owners have reported uneven wear of discs..just a thought..
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Old 24th August 2011, 21:26   #36
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04 View Post
The swift has EBD, but no one has reported any issues of uneven wear of discs in swift.. But the civic and cedia has EBD and ABS and most civic and cedia owners have reported uneven wear of discs..just a thought..
The Swift is a better car?

Jokes apart, I didn't know that Swift had EBD. I was always under the assumption that it came only with ABS.

But don't you think EBD has a higher probability of causing uneven wear than ABS? Or is it that ABS works independently on wheels instead of on all wheels at the same time? I always thought unless the car has EBD, ABS is active on all wheels at the same time, when needed.
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Old 24th August 2011, 21:48   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tassem

The Swift is a better car?

Jokes apart, I didn't know that Swift had EBD. I was always under the assumption that it came only with ABS.

But don't you think EBD has a higher probability of causing uneven wear than ABS? Or is it that ABS works independently on wheels instead of on all wheels at the same time? I always thought unless the car has EBD, ABS is active on all wheels at the same time, when needed.
Lolzz... What you are saying definitely adds to the confusion. But I still think the releasing and applying of brakes again and again leads to uneven wear. The EBD is more like more brake boost to the wheel with more traction..... Maybe i am wrong...
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Old 24th August 2011, 22:24   #38
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

EBD is only responsible for brake boost based on traction / weight on respective tyres .
ESP is more higher version of EBD / ABS where logic circuit monitors difference in rotation of all 4 speeds and effectively brakes automatically tyres which are going faster than the slowest .

But yes ABS can certainly lead to brake pad premature failure when you end up activating ABS most times during braking .
Also higher the frequency of ABS circuit for actuating / releasing wheel cylinders/calipers the faster will be the rate of loss of friction material from brake pad but at the same time higher the frequency the better will be your brakes and more stable your car will be when steering under braking at higher speeds or , in braking in gravel etc.
(And more expensive to replace the actuating valves / callipers )

Last edited by Trust_In_Thrust : 24th August 2011 at 22:28.
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Old 24th August 2011, 22:40   #39
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

It may be true that the manual recommends a change only if required every 15000 km, but the fact is that where brakes are concerned, most of us would not risk ging against the counsel of the service advisor. If the SA is just recommending a change for the hell of it, it's a sad reflection on Fiat's A.S.S. Having said that, Swift owners are used to MASS advisors telling them to change the clutch at every service. But brakepads I don't remember!
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Old 24th August 2011, 22:52   #40
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Quick query: Does the Punto have a 15k km service interval? That might explain why brake pads are replaced every 15 k km even if not required.
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Old 24th August 2011, 23:45   #41
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Quick query: Does the Punto have a 15k km service interval? That might explain why brake pads are replaced every 15 k km even if not required.
Yes. The punto has a 15k service interval but the service booklet clearly mentions 'check and replace brake pads if required'.
I too was asked to get my brake pads changed at 15k by Rama Motors. I got it checked from my friendly neighborhood mechanic who told me they were good for at least 10k. I finally changed them around the 33k mark when they began squeaking.

Please do not take the word of the S.A in this case. It's just a money making tactic.
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Old 25th August 2011, 00:41   #42
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

I am at 35600 odd kms on my Linea MJD. The SA on my 30000 KM service advised me to change the brake pads as they are worn out. I was amazed and furious at the same time, i was not at the *** to visually determine the same. I asked him to let the same be, and i would come back later if required.

I asked him why does it have to wear out at just 30000 KM.

The response was, that these are eco friendly brake pads and they are very good.
And i am getting more furious by the minute. I am like, How can they be eco friendly when the last just 30000 KMs and you are polluting the environment so often, It can be called eco friendly if it lasts a 100,000 KMs at least.

I share that the pads on my Palio ran for 47000 KMs. He is like the Linea and Punto wear out faster.

I decided to wait as there were no audible warnings while breaking and now at 35600 KMs later it still so far (Touchwood) feels clean, i tend to watch out for any squealing sound though.

He also indicated a cost of INR 3000 or more + labour for the same.
While i am conscious of safety, i do not want to be taken for a ride.
I will wait till they start squeaking and get Bosch or some other brand and most probably change it myself.

I believe its a way to make a fast buck. If you actually look at a FIAT Linea service bill, you will see that there are 3 major components
1. Oil @ INR ~1800
2. Fuel Filter with Sensor @ ~ INR 1800
3. Labour -- I am not sure how much this will be, as upto 30000 KMs, its a labour free service. i assume that it will be around INR 1000 atleast.
4. Miscellaneous components, this might come to ~ INR 500 - 700

So the oil is expensive and mandatory. The fuel filter i feel is a rip off.
So if you look at it, I believe they make a huge margin on the fuel filter, beyond that there is no scope to inflate the bill and make money, hence i believe all these issues.

OFFTOPIC.
I got scammed today at the Sadashivnagar Bhashyam Circle, Sangam Fuel Station. (Bangalore).
I have been using this fuel station as it very close to where i live and i would like to give business to people in the vicinity.

@ ~ 8.30 PM I fill fuel and go to have the air refilled in the tyres, Hand him a INR 10 note as i do not have change ---

The air attendant goes around the car filling air, he comes back and tells me that the valve on the rear left wheel is faulty and you will have a problem (Now its 2 months since i have filled air and its down to 24, i keep it at 33). I am like so what, he says he has one and he will change it for INR 25, i laugh at him, he say okay i will do it for 15.
I ask him how does he come to this conclusion. He says he applied spit on the valve and it is bubbling.

I am tired at the end of a relatively long day, so agree to let him change it.

NOW, he pulls out these valves from his pocket, takes a valve tool and releases the air from the wheel, a few seconds later throws A valve on the ground, pretending to have replaced the original one, and re tightens the valve.

I am absolutely furious now, i tell him i do not have change (I did not have as i always use a debit/credit card) and will come meet him on the weekend.

I will meet him during the day on the weekend ask him to change another valve in the short time (~ half a minute or lesser). If he can do the change in the super short time, will give him the remaining INR 5 or report the same.

Well long post, but i guess everybody has an ace up their sleeve today.
Take care, all.
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Old 25th August 2011, 01:31   #43
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

Hi buddy,

It isn't a mandatory replacement required for brake pads every 15k km. Service intervals (read replacement interval) specified in owner's manual is derived from the worst condition trials (sometimes very abuse trials) Instead of going by the manual have the pads checked before replacing.

PS: change the pads when it starts making the noise, else it will spoil the disc (you can see the visible marks in it) resulting in less friction area (contact area) and hence poor braking.
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Old 25th August 2011, 17:00   #44
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

a. 15k service interval. hence manufacturer advice to have a look at the brake pads.they intend to help you avoid visits to the pit-stop in between usual services.fair enough.
b. interesting opportunity, says the SA. he advises you to change the brake pads. He is only going by what the manufacturer said, who is going to record the exact conversation?
c. FIAT makes heavier-than-usual cars. plus you ought to admit that most fiat owners push their cars that little bit harder than your neighbourhood friendly swift wala would dare to. something to do with tijori-on-wheels and hps.

the key IMO, is to keep your eyes open. visual inspection of the brake pads is easy, atleast on the linea with alloy wheels. I do that every other weekend ( read 1500kms). so if you've been doing that, you will be more confident when the SA tries to get smart. but then, you should also be equally willing to visit the pit-stop as soon as the pads start talking ( squeals, or visual inspection).


that brake dust is annoying tho. those pretty alloys get so dirty because of it.

and lastly, NO. ABS has nothing to do with brake pads wearing down sooner. unless you drive like a schummi-want-to-be or get enthusiastic when you see a turn.

Last edited by BuRnT RuBbEr : 25th August 2011 at 17:05.
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Old 5th September 2011, 02:56   #45
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Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

All,

The Linea MJD is at ~ 38400 KMs, the disc pads is begining to squeal.
So looking out for Bosch Brake Pads. Might do a DIY. Seems to be pretty straightforward job, if the right tools are available.

Will update shortly.
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