Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 23rd August 2011, 14:35   #1
BHPian
 
kri$hna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bhagyanagarabad
Posts: 230
Thanked: 29 Times
Default Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

I have given my fiat punto for 3rd service today and to my surprise, I was again advised for a brake pad replacement! I remember changing brake pads in the 2nd free service @15,000Kms.

And now, in 3rd free service @30,157kms, I am being told, the pads are almost done and will have to be replaced. When asked for an explanation of why this replacement at such frequent intervals, here is what I was told--

SA: "sir, your punto has ABS, so pads will need replacement every 15,000kms"
ME: "But isnt that dependent on driving style and amount of brake usage, i tend to use engine braking, so i dont think pads get worn out so soon, besides, in my baleno brake pads last for 40K kms easily"
SA: "Sir, in old vehicles it was possible, because of manual setting. In new vehicles no manual setting, ABS system pad ko paka leta hei" (i dono how this happens now!!)
ME: "I still feel you are bluffing me, so other puntos without ABS, what about them ? "
SA: "Those will last for 30 to 35,000Kms. Those pads are good"

Now i didnt have anything to say. I was so irritated with this "replace disc brake @every service" strategy, I cancelled my idea of suggesting a fiat to any prospective buyer.

But technically speaking, I dont think ABS should make that much of a difference in prolonging or reducing a brake pad life. I want to know from other similar segment car owners like Swift/Polo/i20/fabia having ABS comment on their experiences. Is it really necessary to change brake pads @15,000kms ?

I also came across a guy in the service center, who told me, he didnt listen to the service advisor and didnt change the brake pads @15k, which has resulted in a bigger loss.. He had to change both discs and pads at 30K service!! Now that's an alarming trend if it has become the norm.

I also notice a lot of black powder stuff on both the front wheels, probably from the brake pad rubber wearing out on friction. But this doesnt happen on my baleno, neither did i see this happen in the palio which i had earlier. Ofcourse, none of them had ABS, but does it make so much of a difference ? And these brake pads arent cheap also, costing around 3k its a real pain and frustration once every 15,000kms !!
kri$hna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2011, 14:42   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
black12rr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ridin earth now
Posts: 1,259
Thanked: 272 Times
Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

Even if it does , its cheap to replace . More over the safety and functionality they serve , is worth 1000 times ,for few hundreds you save .Just go and have a blast ,don't worry too much .

Even if it saves you one accident or even half ,isn't worth it ? .I don't care if even they come for just 10000 Kms .They just need to work good .

Last edited by black12rr : 23rd August 2011 at 14:49.
black12rr is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2011, 14:46   #3
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 229
Thanked: 48 Times
Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

The owner manual also mentions a change of brake pads at every 15k interval. Now, I'm not an expert in this area, but the SA checked the pads and advised a change after another 2-3k kms, when I gave the car for the 15k service. Not that it helps matters much, but for sure the pads need to be replaced.
I would also like to hear from other ABS provided non-Fiat car owners about their experience here.
royalcruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2011, 14:53   #4
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 487
Thanked: 110 Times
Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

The brake pads will surely wear out faster if you are jamming the brakes frequently, ABS or not.
And like Black said, be more concerned about safety. The ABS system will perform well if the brake pads are in good shape, no point in having ABS with worn out pads.
Drive safe!!
mb_jg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2011, 15:11   #5
Distinguished - BHPian
 
dhanushs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bathery/BLR
Posts: 3,446
Thanked: 4,055 Times
Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

@OP: Brake pads have to be replaced if the thickness of the friction material is worn down to a min of 3mm. Was that the case with your Punto?.
dhanushs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2011, 15:12   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 8
Thanked: Once
Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

Well in my ANHC which is having ABS, I had to change the pads in 17,000 kms. I have driven it majorly on highways and hills. I think frequent braking on the hills has resulted in that.
Otherwise My santro which is non ABS, has run 75,000 kms and I have changed the brake pads only once.
diksh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2011, 15:19   #7
BHPian
 
kri$hna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bhagyanagarabad
Posts: 230
Thanked: 29 Times
Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by black12rr View Post
Even if it does , its cheap to replace . More over the safety and functionality they serve , is worth 1000 times ,for few hundreds you save .Just go and have a blast ,don't worry too much .

Even if it saves you one accident or even half ,isn't worth it ? .I don't care if even they come for just 10000 Kms .They just need to work good .
True. I have chosen the ABS version only with safety in mind. No other thought about it actually !

But, replacing a brake pad every 15,000kms could also mean a design flaw which results in a badly worn out brakes. Even worse, it could damage the discs as well. Safety cannot be compromised for economics, but considering the maintenance costs running upto 8k for a regular FREE service, will you not think twice in recommending such a car to someone contemplating a new buy?

A car need not be expensive to be safe. Thats my point ! My baleno performs equally good (though i miss the ABS) and the brakes last much longer


Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcruiser View Post
I would also like to hear from other ABS provided non-Fiat car owners about their experience here.
Hmm this is what even i am looking for. I wanted to know if it is a general issue with every ABS version of all manufacturers or only Fiat specific issue.

If its a fiat issue, i am sure it can be corrected with a change in the brand of disk pads, may be buying ceramic pads can help ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mb_jg View Post
The brake pads will surely wear out faster if you are jamming the brakes frequently, ABS or not.
Drive safe!!
You are right, but with the same driver (myself) and driving style, there shouldnt be much change in the wear & tear of parts like brake pads, unless there is a design flaw ? or something which we dont know !

I never see such black powder coming off brakes on my baleno (atleast not as much as the punto) and i think that means a lot of friction there

@Dhanushs: I havent yet seen the worn out pads, But i have asked the service guys to keep them aside for a check. He said those were totally worn out and wouldnt last more than 500kms.

Last edited by kri$hna : 23rd August 2011 at 15:23.
kri$hna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2011, 15:24   #8
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,708
Thanked: 8,929 Times
Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

Kri$hna, My Punto has done over 40k kms now and is still running on the Brake Pads that came fitted to the car.

Check out this thread by GTO: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-overhaul.html (SCAM Alert "Saar, your car needs a clutch overhaul")
.anshuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2011, 15:27   #9
Team-BHP Support
 
Eddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 7,402
Thanked: 4,678 Times
Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcruiser View Post
The owner manual also mentions a change of brake pads at every 15k interval.
If this is true, then the SA is right in recommending the change, whatever the reason. I would then advice you to follow the manual and change every 15k and bear the cost. Don't take a chance.
Eddy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2011, 15:29   #10
Distinguished - BHPian
 
dhanushs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bathery/BLR
Posts: 3,446
Thanked: 4,055 Times
Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kri$hna View Post
@Dhanushs: I havent yet seen the worn out pads, But i have asked the service guys to keep them aside for a check. He said those were totally worn out and wouldnt last more than 500kms.
Yes please. I always make a note of checking the parts, before going in for the actual replacement. You know, those money suckers at the ***.
dhanushs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2011, 15:33   #11
Distinguished - BHPian
 
swiftnfurious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 6,448
Thanked: 6,429 Times
Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

I changed my swift VDi ABS' brake pads at 35,000 kms and checked with other owners in the forum and looked like normal. Also I was told that if I drove more on the highway, my brake pads would last much more due to reduced braking than in the city.

Not sure ABS has something to do with this. Why dont you try some performance pads once & check whether the cost justifies the life of those pads?

Edit
:: Two points I would recommend to you.

1. Please get hold of Punto owners [both ABS & non-ABS makes] and check with them on the status of brake pad change interval.

2. Try & grab the brake pads right after the change to inspect the stuff - Not being in the A$$ would give them the time to change the stuff & show you another piece, if they actually are doing fraud.

Also try & search in international fiat forums about this. You might wanna check in team-fiat.co.in as well which is exclusively for Fiat owners. Next time also make sure to take the opinion of another A$$ about the life of brake pads before the service schedule.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 23rd August 2011 at 15:39.
swiftnfurious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2011, 15:36   #12
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 229
Thanked: 48 Times
Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Kri$hna, My Punto has done over 40k kms now and is still running on the Brake Pads that came fitted to the car.
Just curious, didn't the SA never mention about the brake pad change during the 15k and 30k service? Do the brakes still have good enough bite?
royalcruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2011, 15:38   #13
Distinguished - BHPian
 
libranof1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: All over!
Posts: 3,727
Thanked: 2,822 Times
Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

About the OP's original question, technically speaking, does ABS wear out brake pads faster?
libranof1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2011, 15:39   #14
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bhubaneswar
Posts: 1,762
Thanked: 532 Times
Default Re: Does ABS result in much faster Worn-Out Disc pads ?

Your service center guy seems to be taking advantage of the "replace if required" phrase mentioned in Fiat service manual. The manual doesn't say you have to change every 15k kms.

We weren't even advised a change of brake pads at 15k Kms. I specifically asked whether it would be better to change it, but the SA said, the checking is more from a safety point of view, as the car has a long service interval by Indian standards. He said, unless your brake usage is very heavy, they should last upto 45k kms.

True, ABS will cause the brake pads to be used for a longer duration. Because in a non ABS car, once the brakes are locked no more wear will occur, as no more motion between pad and disc. But in ABS when lock up is about to occur, the brakes let go and re-apply till you come to a stop. Thus the pads are rubbing for a longer duration.

But the point remains, ABS kicks in for probably 5-10% of the total braking maneuvers. Thus the total extra wear due to ABS will be minimum.

Like I said, your SA is just thrusting this on you to make some money.

Last edited by julupani : 23rd August 2011 at 15:43.
julupani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2011, 15:46   #15
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,708
Thanked: 8,929 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcruiser View Post
Just curious, didn't the SA never mention about the brake pad change during the 15k and 30k service? Do the brakes still have good enough bite?
Yes the brakes in my car are perfectly fine.

Infact modern cars have a mechanism in disc pads which starts making a shrill sound when the pads are worn out, the sound is not due to worn out pad but a indicator pin designed to make shrill sound to indicate wear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
But the point remains, ABS kicks in for probably 5-10% of the total braking maneuvers. Thus the total extra wear due to ABS will be minimum.
Easily must be less than 1% in my case. With gentle driving i rarely ever experience wheels locking and ABS activation.

Last edited by .anshuman : 23rd August 2011 at 15:52.
.anshuman is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What was the average life of your car's brake pads? PatchyBoy Technical Stuff 296 14th November 2017 19:37
P220 disc-pads PowerTrained Motorbikes 11 22nd November 2011 00:14
Paint for disc brake pads & rear brake drums VC12 Modifications & Accessories 8 25th October 2011 17:18
Warranty declined for Front brake Disc worn out in 37 K Kms gadadhar Technical Stuff 18 18th March 2011 12:26
Rear Pads Worn Out Faster Than Front Pads! How is this possible? Tripod Technical Stuff 13 29th April 2009 22:16


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 17:28.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks