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Old 7th September 2011, 15:24   #16
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Originally Posted by chetanhanda View Post
congrats on nearing 200K!!
just a few quick basic suggestions from the top of my head considering age of your engine and driving style.
I'd suggest begin with a compression test - just to see how much life you have left or if there is something serious you need to address 1st.
This will give you a rough idea how much life your engine has left with existing components i.e how your valves/piston rings etc are doing so far.

Probably inspect the following also -
1] check the condition of the distributor, rotor, cap etc - replace it if necessary
2]check your tappet setting , get them adjusted, I feel you should keep it closer to the upper range e.g if your specs are .13 to .17mm then keep it on the 0.16 mm.(Not sure what the specs are for a zen)
Atleast in my experience older engines need a bit more clearance when hot.
(Get it done exactly w.r.t TDC, some mechanics are lazy. I insist on matching the CMP exactly for every cylinder even if the mechanic says the mark on the crank pulley nearly matches, in carb you may have to rely on probaly the marking on the crank/cam pulley marking etc since you dont have this sensor)
3]check conditions of your cam lobes, rockers - in case they are worn out too much.
4] check all belts - if they are showing signs of being cracked,frayed at edges etc. I'd suggesting changing all the belts itself seeing the age of your engine and your driving style.Atleast change the timing belt and idler pulley to be on the safe side..but seems you haver already taken car e of that.Just a query did you change the belt only ? or did you also change the idler ?
5] gearbox oil - when did you change it last ? you can change the oil if reqd.How does your gearbox/syncros feel now?
6] bearings - get your all 4 bearings checked, raise it on the overhead jack and see if you have play in the wheels, try and pull/push down on the wheels from the sides and see if you have play. Maybe also just give them a rotation with your hand and see if you can hear something ?
replace if necesary
7] Bushings - raise the car and see the underside, just check the condition of all your bushings, I'm guessing you may see some cracked/deformed/crushed bushings.
8] Shocks/Struts - not sure what suspension you have on your zen but check if you can see some signs of wetting/damp spots indicating worn out seals etc. Probably replace the entire shock/strut..
9] I was going to say injector cleaning ... but
10]Synthetic engine oil - Flush with decarboniser , probably use a fresh quantity of some cheap mineral oil ...
Replace with fresh new synthetic oil.
I really dont think replacing with synthetic engine oil will create any problems.
11] Simple stuff like spark plugs. Go for factory spec ones only.
12] Ignition timing - Get your "base ignition" timing set exactly as per factory spec.
I really dont know what kind of a mechanical "ignition advance" mechanism the carb zen has. Probably get it checked also if it works as expected with a timing gun.
Probably in your carb system wed need to check the dwell angle also.
If you are replacing a worn out distributor I'm guessing this would take care of the dwell angle settings also.
If not then set the dwell correctly as per spec.
(If it was an ECU based system things would be diff, we'd disconnect the ECU for doing the base ignition and leave the advance to the ECU and its sensors etc, we dont have to worry about dwell angle)
13] Alternator : <Post edited you already took care of it>

Cant think of more stuff at the moment, will add if I think I've missed out something.

Thanks for this .

BTW this is a mpfi Zen, so it does have injectors and an ECU :P

Though most of these have been taken care of - Wheel bearing,distributor,belts,struts,rear suspension .... , I dunno the state of the cam ...will get it checked for sure .

Compression test..yeah ...this has been noted down..spark plugs are replaced every 20 K kms ..and its OE plugs.

Tappet setting was done long ago ( at about 1.1 L kms in 2008) ..will check that as well.

Can you please elaborate more on the "bushings"?

The entire Timing belt set was replced( belt,idler ,....)

BTW ...what exactly is done in a compression testing ? And what next ,if there is a problem with compression?

Is this done wrt each cylinder? What if one/two cylinders have an issue with compression?


Lastly,what happens in an engine OH? Does the engine operate the same way as before the OH ...or is it a case for a 1.3 mpfi engine

Last edited by GTO : 8th September 2011 at 15:18. Reason: Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another!
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Old 7th September 2011, 15:37   #17
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Default Re: Car approaching 200K kms ,what areas to be taken care of

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Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
Thanks for this .

BTW this is a mpfi Zen, so it does have injectors and an ECU :P

Though most of these have been taken care of - Wheel bearing,distributor,belts,struts,rear suspension .... , I dunno the state of the cam ...will get it checked for sure .

Compression test..yeah ...this has been noted down..spark plugs are replaced every 20 K kms ..and its OE plugs.

Tappet setting was done long ago ( at about 1.1 L kms in 2008) ..will check that as well.

Can you please elaborate more on the "bushings"?

The entire Timing belt set was replced( belt,idler ,....)
Oh ok..I dont know why I was assuming you had a carb zen
tappet setting - this will definately make a big difference.After getting the setting let it idle for 10 mins till it gets really hot and then see if its idling correctly as before, slight roughness means your engine finds the setting too tight, go for higher but within factory spec.
bushings - those rubber thingys used for the steering and suspension components. e.g the ones used for the stabiliser bar for the front suspension. Older ones create slight play and give a rubbery feel to the handling of the car and steering. There are quite a few you can spot if u raise the car and see from below. The mechanic will help you identify them easily.

Also check the tie rods, CV boots etc.
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Old 7th September 2011, 15:40   #18
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Default Re: Car approaching 200K kms ,what areas to be taken care of

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Originally Posted by chetanhanda View Post
Oh ok..I dont know why I was assuming you had a carb zen
tappet setting - this will definately make a big difference.After getting the setting let it idle for 10 mins till it gets really hot and then see if its idling correctly as before, slight roughness means your engine finds the setting too tight, go for higher but within factory spec.
bushings - those rubber thingys used for the steering and suspension components. e.g the ones used for the stabiliser bar for the front suspension. Older ones create slight play and give a rubbery feel to the handling of the car and steering. There are quite a few you can spot if u raise the car and see from below. The mechanic will help you identify them easily.

Also check the tie rods, CV boots etc.
Okay .The stabiliser bar bushes are also replaced every 20-25k kms:P and tie rods form part of the steering OH that is done almost every 40 K kms .I let Surakshaa take a call on whether to replace these.
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Old 7th September 2011, 15:44   #19
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Default Re: Car approaching 200K kms ,what areas to be taken care of

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Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
T

In addition to what the manufacturer specifies,some additional replacements that I do are :
1- Fuel Tank clean( Every 40 K kms)
2- Radiator Flush(Every 40 K kms)
3-Engine Decarbon( Every 10 K kms)
4-Engine Mounts( Replace every 40 K kms )
5-Stabilizer bar bush(Replace every 40 K kms)
6-Steering Overhaul( Every 40 K kms)
7-Throttle body clean ( Every 20 K kms)
200 K is quite a big score . . Could you give costs for each of the above for reference purpose ?
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Old 7th September 2011, 16:00   #20
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Default Re: Car approaching 200K kms ,what areas to be taken care of

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Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
Okay .The stabiliser bar bushes are also replaced every 20-25k kms:P and tie rods form part of the steering OH that is done almost every 40 K kms .I let Surakshaa take a call on whether to replace these.
Seems you have taken good care so far.
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Old 7th September 2011, 16:02   #21
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Default Re: Car approaching 200K kms ,what areas to be taken care of

I do all my servicing at Surakshaa ,so i don't bother checking the bills !
But yeah ,the 5K service usually costs me around 3K while the 10K service costs me around 5-6 K usually .So that's a max of around 1 Re/Km
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Old 7th September 2011, 16:14   #22
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Default Re: Car approaching 200K kms ,what areas to be taken care of

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I do all my servicing at Surakshaa ,so i don't bother checking the bills !
But yeah ,the 5K service usually costs me around 3K while the 10K service costs me around 5-6 K usually .So that's a max of around 1 Re/Km
Another thing I just remembered based on what you are saying about the condition of the beading etc-
I experienced this in the past 3 times with older cars.(Old civic, maruti 800 and OHC)
I was unlucky enough to get stranded with the glass totally stuck full way down.
Some of the components of the mechanism which holds the glass in place and help in winding it up/down also gives away after years of water/dampness etc. either the channels/runners or the base where the glass is stuck to the base support.
Just get the panel opened and inspect , these things will give away without warning in older cars with a lot of years on it.
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Old 7th September 2011, 16:36   #23
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Default Re: Car approaching 200K kms ,what areas to be taken care of

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Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
BTW ...what exactly is done in a compression testing ? And what next ,if there is a problem with compression?

Is this done wrt each cylinder? What if one/two cylinders have an issue with compression?


Lastly,what happens in an engine OH? Does the engine operate the same way as before the OH ...or is it a case for a 1.3 mpfi engine
In simple terms withou going crazy technical since this is originally a 200K main thread.
It will test how much pressure your engine can still mantain, good power = proper compression of the air/fuel mix.
The compression test will determine if there are any leaks which will not let you obtain a proper compression and will show as drop in pressure on the "compression testing machine" (for now let it be a blackbox to keep it simple)
These leaks can be due to say for e.g worn out piston rings which will not let the cylinder compress the air fuel mix properly, it may leak past and not acheive the proper 8.5/9.5:1 compression etc
could also be due to issue with your valves/cams. if the valves are not closing properly they will allow the piston to properly compress during the compression stroke.(u will also probably be also looking at a burnt valves if they are not seating propely due to x number of reasons like cam, tappet, cam timing , overlap whatever etc)

I can go on ..there can be a lot of reasons, but you get the picture.

Yes its w.r.t to each cylinder.
If there is issue with 1 out of the 4 cylinders you will notice it in idle but not so much during normal driving..depending how bad the diffrence is in the cylinders.

What does OH stand for ?

Last edited by chetanhanda : 7th September 2011 at 16:38.
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Old 7th September 2011, 16:40   #24
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Default Re: Car approaching 200K kms ,what areas to be taken care of

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Originally Posted by chetanhanda View Post
In simple terms withou going crazy technical since this is originally a 200K main thread.
It will test how much pressure your engine can still mantain, good power = proper compression of the air/fuel mix.
The compression test will determine if there are any leaks which will not let you obtain a proper compression and will show as drop in pressure on the "compression testing machine" (for now let it be a blackbox to keep it simple)
These leaks can be due to say for e.g worn out piston rings which will not let the cylinder compress the air fuel mix properly, it may leak past and not acheive the proper 8.5/9.5:1 compression etc
could also be due to issue with your valves/cams. if the valves are not closing properly they will allow the piston to properly compress during the compression stroke.(u will also probably be also looking at a burnt valves if they are not seating propely due to x number of reasons like cam, tappet, cam timing , overlap whatever etc)

I can go on ..there can be a lot of reasons, but you get the picture.

Yes its w.r.t to each cylinder.
If there is issue with 1 out of the 4 cylinders you will notice it in idle but not so much during normal driving..depending how bad the diffrence is in the cylinders.

What does OH stand for ?
My bad ! OH was OverHaul .
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Old 7th September 2011, 16:52   #25
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Default Re: Car approaching 200K kms ,what areas to be taken care of

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My bad ! OH was OverHaul .
ok..
For older 200K engines ..I think it depends on how much you are willing to spend and the % of confidence you have on the job being done will be good as you think it will be.
Personally if I had options of getting some major piston, cam or some other internal engine work done on the old engine I'd rather go for a 1.3 swap and invest time and money in getting the new engine upto spec.
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Old 7th September 2011, 19:38   #26
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Default Re: Car approaching 200K kms ,what areas to be taken care of

Okay Thanks so much .I am planning to stick to this engine as long as it runs fine .A 1.3 mpfi engine is definitely part of long term plans.
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Old 8th September 2011, 22:22   #27
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Default Re: Car approaching 200K kms ,what areas to be taken care of

For the confidence in the jelly bean.
I too have a '99 carb Zen which has done a little over 70K. Still runs like a dream. Only rust seems to be creeping in here & there.
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Old 8th September 2011, 23:11   #28
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Default Re: Car approaching 200K kms ,what areas to be taken care of

Superb!!!Please keep it till it reaches 300000 kms!
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Old 9th September 2011, 14:02   #29
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Default Re: Car approaching 200K kms ,what areas to be taken care of

Congrats on reaching the milestone. My Santro has also clocked 170k. Besides regular services, I have not done anything and the car has worked perfectly for the last 6+ years. The decarbonising interval for Santro is recommended every 30k kms but after some research here, I had skipped the decarbonising at the 150k service.

Considering your driving style I do think the the engine will need to be overhauled some time soon, so would actually recommend you change your car now. While I do not redline my Santro, at 170k the car finally felt old (not mechanically though) and I have changed it earlier this week.

Cheers!
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Old 9th September 2011, 16:00   #30
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Default Re: Car approaching 200K kms ,what areas to be taken care of

Congratulations for the landmark. My Aug-2000 Zen is closing on this mark, currently at 185,000KM. My car is mainly used for city runs and that makes me lazy on maintenance part, but looking at your thread I am inclined to get it more regularly serviced and fix some issues which I have been overlooking.
Congratulation once again!
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