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Old 29th September 2011, 11:10   #31
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Default Re: Is the Innova engine outdated?

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Originally Posted by Nitrous Power View Post
Each engine is designed for specific usage for specific cars. Scorpio is SUV and 2.2 is developed keeping that in mind. Why Xylo is not using the same engine? Instead using 2.5 liter engine with less power than 2.2, reason being Xylo is MUV and requires different engine tuning. Same way, Innova is MUV and does not require outright power only. Please compare apple to apple.
Cost is also a factor buddy.

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But the general population has a different view point. Innova, Altis and Fortuner are miles ahead in sales chart than competition. That proves something.
Innovas & Scorpio sell neck to neck, I dont see Altis rocking the sales chart either. I agree that Fortuner is selling well, probably due to lack of competition.
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Old 29th September 2011, 13:26   #32
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Default Re: Is the Innova engine outdated?

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Originally Posted by nitinbose View Post
Toyota cars in India are tuned to function to as little as 50% of their capability, according to my research and understanding. The main reason is for engine longevity and to provide the maximum fuel efficiency.

I had requested Nandi Toyota to adjust the tuning for better performance for my Fortuner and they did some "magic" and now the car really blazes off! Ofcourse, this is at the cost of fuel efficiency drop from 10km/liter to about 8.Xkm/liter in the city.
Can you share what was done exactly, and what difference you are seeing? Did Nandi mention anything about reliability with the new state of 'tune'?
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Old 29th September 2011, 19:04   #33
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Default Re: Is the Innova engine outdated?

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Originally Posted by nilanjanray View Post
Can you share what was done exactly, and what difference you are seeing? Did Nandi mention anything about reliability with the new state of 'tune'?
If I am not wrong, Toyota has some TRD ( Toyota Racing Development ? ) kit in other markets that can take the power and torque to 200 bhp and 400 NM respectively. Though I am not sure about this, but the dealer might have got access to that ECU mapping. This is not just adding a chip which actually cheats the ECU, but most likely a remap. Again I am not sure about what exactly this is.

@nitinbose :
Do update the thread if you get any information about your upgradation specs.
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Old 29th September 2011, 20:12   #34
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Originally Posted by raj_5004

Cost is also a factor buddy.

Innovas & Scorpio sell neck to neck, I dont see Altis rocking the sales chart either. I agree that Fortuner is selling well, probably due to lack of competition.
Again you are comparing apples to oranges. Scorpio is an SUV and Innova is MUV. Please compare engines and sales numbers of Innova and Xylo and not to Scorpio. This will give you right picture. Innova sells much higher than Xylo even though being costlier.

FYI, Altis is segment leader as well. Please check monthly sales threads.
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Old 30th September 2011, 09:08   #35
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Default Re: Is the Innova engine outdated?

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Originally Posted by nilanjanray View Post
Can you share what was done exactly, and what difference you are seeing? Did Nandi mention anything about reliability with the new state of 'tune'?

Well, they simply mentioned about adjusting the clutch.... but the vehicle now jolts from rest when you step on the accelerator... I can feel about 1.5X the original performance. The acceleration has increased and the 0-100 time is also less, but of course at the expense of fuel consumption which is now 9km/l as opposed to 10km/l.
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Old 14th November 2011, 10:00   #36
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Default Innova. Why it is so popular despite having poor engine parameters?

Innova is hugely popular and has been lavishly praised by GTO and others despite its plain jane looks, high prices, apparently poor engine parameters (102BHP, 200Nm max torque).
Can somebody enlighten me why Innova has so much less max. torque (200Nm) (almost equal to a Swift), while having such large cubic capacity engine (2500cc to Swift's 1300cc)? Even the power is not much. Is it due to it being an obsolete technology engine? I am sure there is some catch which I am unable to understand. After-all it is not selling in such huge quantity for no reasons.

- Is the torque enough to make Leh ladakh kind of trip carrying 6+ adults?
- If it has obsolete inefficient engine than why it is still so popular, selling almost double than Xylo which is much cheaper?

Thanks and best wishes.
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Old 14th November 2011, 10:24   #37
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Default Re: Innova. Why it is so popular despite having poor engine parameters?

Because its a perfect all round package. A powerful engine mated to a poor gear box will not perform as well as a decent engine mated to proper gear box. How are you saying the technology is obsolete? Just from the numbers?

I did the Leh trip in the Innova no problem at all except ground clearance but in proper hands it is easy. These cars are built to last and not just the engine but as a whole unit. Also there is a saying 'No replacement for Displacement' or something like that.

Drive one don't just go by numbers they sometimes do not present a true picture.
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Old 14th November 2011, 10:30   #38
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Default Re: Innova. Why it is so popular despite having poor engine parameters?

there is a pressing need for our large extended Indian families and their luggage and whatnots to be ferried about in reasonable chauffeur driven comfort, significant economy and with lots of head room/ legroom and so on.
the innova, being a diesel powered van which delivers excellent reliability and economy of running, upkeep and maintenance - this extreme VFM proposition is like manna from heaven for those with the need state as defined above.
here in India, anything can be forgiven, provided the vehicle delivers extreme VFM - which the Innova does.
Hence Toyota appears to have got it right first time out - Qualis and then the Innova! such a simple formula really, but it took a Japanese manufacturer to do the job properly. No wonder our compatriots are flocking to it in droves and voting positively with their wallets!
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Old 14th November 2011, 10:39   #39
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Default Re: Innova. Why it is so popular despite having poor engine parameters?

There are many reasons:

1) Higher than other cars like sedans. Advantage in visibility, rains, water logged roads.
2) Body on Frame construction ( a big advantage in rough operating conditions, overloading, etc. ). Helps in durability, something the sedans lack.
3) Space.
4) Easy to drive. For most families, cruising on highways below 110-120 kmph this car does fine. Its a different thing that they cruise at much higher speeds
5) Dynamics. Almost car like to drive, this along with given height, space and ability to carry 7 humans is added advantage which leads to rather invincibility.
6) Long lasting engine, helped by lower state of tune also.

No other car has this combination of height, good dynamics, space, ability to take abuse, seating capacity, ride quality.

That said, I agree that it is over priced by over 3 lakh now, given what Xylo and XUV500 can do. Hats off to Mahindra.
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Old 14th November 2011, 10:42   #40
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Default Re: Innova. Why it is so popular despite having poor engine parameters?

I must confess that when I read this thread for the first time, I was confused, since I've been driven in an Innova umpteen times, and its never come across as being underpowered. When I compared the specs with the Scorpio, I saw that Scorpio has a 120 BHP(86.7kw), 290 NM @ 1800-2800 rpm v/s the Innova's 102 PS(75kw), 200NM @1400-3400 rpm. So, yes on paper it does appear underpowered against the Scorpio, but then its about 200-300 kgs lighter than the Scorpio.

However, whatever the specs on paper, the Innova does not seem to lack power onthe road, it has a gem of an engine in terms of refinement, NVH, and reliability. Also the excellent Toyota service and build quality help it win customers despite the slightly lower spec engine.
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Old 14th November 2011, 10:51   #41
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Default Re: Innova. Why it is so popular despite having poor engine parameters?

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Originally Posted by ajay0612 View Post
- Is the torque enough to make Leh ladakh kind of trip carrying 6+ adults?
Yes, Innovas by the dozen go to Leh carrying much more than the kind of load that you have mentioned and come back successfully, multiple times in a single year. Remember it is based on the Hilux platform to a certain extent which is as reliable as the Sun.
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Originally Posted by ajay0612 View Post
- If it has obsolete inefficient engine than why it is still so popular, selling almost double than Xylo which is much cheaper?
The Xylo has its own share of handling, fit and finish and ergonomics niggles to battle. Moreover the Toyota brand is known for its supreme reliability, cheap ASC costs and the reputation that has been built up over decades.

The Innova, while being slightly underpowered, offers a near ideal combination of power, torque, reliability, image and customer satisfaction which no other vehicle in its segment has been able to match.
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Old 14th November 2011, 10:56   #42
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Default Re: Innova. Why it is so popular despite having poor engine parameters?

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Originally Posted by ajay0612 View Post
- Is the torque enough to make Leh ladakh kind of trip carrying 6+ adults?
Yes It can easily. Frankly Innova is not menat to do leh kind of trip. What would you choose if you are having family of 4 Adults + 2 children? None of hatch/sedan will help you. Whats left in market? SUV/MUV. There are lots option in SUV, but none will offer decent ride quality. Believe me 80% of 6+ passenger personal buyer does not look for offroad/sports kind of thing. You do not want your 60+ & 6+ passengers in jumping state in rear seats. That's where Innova/Xylo comes in to the picture.

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Originally Posted by ajay0612 View Post
- If it has obsolete inefficient engine than why it is still so popular, selling almost double than Xylo which is much cheaper?
Innova is charged with premium of 1-1.25 Lacs. But Xylo is not cheaper either. Actually Innova should be available at Xylo's prices & XYLO should be available at 1-1.25 Lacs lesser than its current level. This will only happen if you have 7-8 models competing in one category.

Is anyone remembers Honda City's original prices?

Oh yes... Ertiga will change all these picture.

Last edited by zalaps : 14th November 2011 at 10:59. Reason: Ertiga!
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Old 14th November 2011, 11:00   #43
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Default Re: Innova. Why it is so popular despite having poor engine parameters?

When our extended family travels together, we always hire an Innova V. Till I read your post, I never thought of it to be an under powered car (it is really very car like, so I often refer to it as a car). This is despite the fact that I drove an Ikon 1.6 earlier in India. I think, the power is much more like the way Aston Martins or RR describe it: "adequate". It is a great mile muncher and it has sufficient capacity to get you from A to B, in a quick pace.

You will possibly need to drive it yourself to be convinced.

BH

Last edited by BurningHeart : 14th November 2011 at 11:01.
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Old 14th November 2011, 11:10   #44
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Default Re: Innova. Why it is so popular despite having poor engine parameters?

+1
Toyota is a reliable brand. Innova is very easy to maintain like a car and it has a very good resale value and class. Till recently our family had a Qualis which never created a problem and were able to sell it for a very reasonable price. I never say that all other brands are bad but just because of past experience, we will blindly go and get a Toyoto, if there is a requirement.

Last edited by coolclouds : 14th November 2011 at 11:19.
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Old 14th November 2011, 11:18   #45
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Default Re: Innova. Why it is so popular despite having poor engine parameters?

Toyota
When it replaced Qualis - A huge multifold step forward.
Large - most spacious front facing 7 seater. - Xylo came too late and the quality did not match up.
Decent Fuel Effeciency.
Very Reliable
Spares cost quite a bit but are not required too soon in the life of the vehicle.
Rattle Free for a lot of kms giving a feel of it being built to last - though a lot of the materials are plane Jane.
Updated at the right time - first time round. - Needs one more soon.
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