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Old 14th May 2012, 08:58   #211
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

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Originally Posted by MutantX View Post
This issue is existant right from Lxi to Vxi and Zxi.
I thought the 'Z' variants were good with the brakes. I only read about a smaller booster being used in the 'Z' variants compared to none in the 'L' & 'V' variants.

I would agree with Sankar, may be someone can try to source the brake booster parts from the Older Swift and try installation in the New Swift.

However faster the new Swift could go, with poor brakes its not going to go anywhere.

@MSIL, brakes are not the right place to cut costs
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Old 14th May 2012, 09:10   #212
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

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I thought the 'Z' variants were good with the brakes. I only read about a smaller booster being used in the 'Z' variants compared to none in the 'L' & 'V' variants.

I would agree with Sankar, may be someone can try to source the brake booster parts from the Older Swift and try installation in the New Swift.

However faster the new Swift could go, with poor brakes its not going to go anywhere.

@MSIL, brakes are not the right place to cut costs
anachronix, the brakes are decent enough but the issue exists in the brake booster that pumps in vaccume for effective braking. MASS had checked for brake booster pressure, leaks in vaccume hose, brake pads, brake drum, disc etc., but the problem is that, at low engine rpm, with half clutch this issue comes into existence.

When I take a reverse, I usually keep half clutch and use the brakes to alter speed. When I press the brake the first time, it is fine, second time the brakes show a little resistance, third little more resistance and finally at the fourth, the brakes become rock hard. At this stage, I will need to pump the clutch once or twice for the brakes to regain its effectiveness. I have been driving a santro (LE- non PS) and i10 for all these years and never had such an issue. But with this new gen swift, this particular problem seem to be really worrying.
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Old 14th May 2012, 09:47   #213
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

You can read about a similar issue here

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ake-issue.html (Punto Active brake issue)

A smaller OE booster could also be the cause for this problem!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MutantX View Post
anachronix, the brakes are decent enough but the issue exists in the brake booster that pumps in vaccume for effective braking. MASS had checked for brake booster pressure, leaks in vaccume hose, brake pads, brake drum, disc etc., but the problem is that, at low engine rpm, with half clutch this issue comes into existence.

When I take a reverse, I usually keep half clutch and use the brakes to alter speed. When I press the brake the first time, it is fine, second time the brakes show a little resistance, third little more resistance and finally at the fourth, the brakes become rock hard. At this stage, I will need to pump the clutch once or twice for the brakes to regain its effectiveness. I have been driving a santro (LE- non PS) and i10 for all these years and never had such an issue. But with this new gen swift, this particular problem seem to be really worrying.
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Old 14th May 2012, 10:36   #214
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

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Sankar, I have a slightly different problem. I issue is that brakes become rock hard at low speeds. The engine is less than 1000 rpm, speed at 10 km/hr and in 1st gear/reverse gear with half clutch, the brake pedel becomes very hard after several half brakes. I had to press the clutch fully for the brakes to become effective once again. It is scary while taking reverse as the brakes become totally ineffective during such time.

I have talked to Maruti A$$, most of them dont seem to understand the main issue. Anyways, I managed to get a few other people who have the same issue and got it tested which prompted MASS to send an technical report to maruti for further analysis. Waiting since last week to heard from Maruti. This issue is existant right from Lxi to Vxi and Zxi.
I hope they come up with some upgrade to the brake system than some excuse why the brakes are good as it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
I would agree with Sankar, may be someone can try to source the brake booster parts from the Older Swift and try installation in the New Swift.

However faster the new Swift could go, with poor brakes its not going to go anywhere.

@MSIL, brakes are not the right place to cut costs
This is what i plan to do. I think i don't have a choice other than Swift VXI in this price bracket which ticks all the right boxes. Brio was good, but its a smaller car. I'm stuck with the Swift

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Originally Posted by MutantX View Post
When I take a reverse, I usually keep half clutch and use the brakes to alter speed. When I press the brake the first time, it is fine, second time the brakes show a little resistance, third little more resistance and finally at the fourth, the brakes become rock hard. At this stage, I will need to pump the clutch once or twice for the brakes to regain its effectiveness. I have been driving a santro (LE- non PS) and i10 for all these years and never had such an issue. But with this new gen swift, this particular problem seem to be really worrying.
I have seen a similar behaviour in my AStar, but with the engine OFF.

This is a sign of booster not having/getting enough vacuum during consecutive operations. Either a problem with the booster design or maybe the engine manifold (in Petrol) is not seeing enough vacuum (but i highly doubt the latter).

In my Maruti AStar with the engine OFF when i press the brake pedal the first time the pedal goes down as its assisted by the servo. During the second pedal press the brake pedal doesn't go as easily as it did the first time. And during the third to fourth pedal press the brake pedal feels wooden it doesn't get any servo effect. But when the engine is running, even if its in idle there is no such problem as you are experiencing while reversing.

Bigger vehicles like Safari has a vacuum chamber which stores nothing (vacuum) for brake booster application when the engine is not running. I'm not sure if there is a separate vacuum reservoir in small cars, maybe not and in that case this vacuum reservoir would be integrated into the booster to hold a little bit of nothing for emergency when the engine is not running.

I guess there is something wrong with the new booster. But i can only say for sure after i get the car and do a swap experiment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
You can read about a similar issue here

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ake-issue.html (Punto Active brake issue)

A smaller OE booster could also be the cause for this problem!
But tbhp member Viju says the booster diameter is the same as that of the outgoing Swift. But he says booster ratio would might be different.
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Old 14th May 2012, 10:38   #215
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
You can read about a similar issue here

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ake-issue.html (Punto Active brake issue)

A smaller OE booster could also be the cause for this problem!
read it and I too thought I could wait and decide based on how frequent the issue occurred. But at times while taking reverse in an incline, the issue seem to be dangerous. I will wait for Maruti technical team to get back to us.
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Old 14th May 2012, 12:13   #216
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
I guess the brochure clarifies why the new Swift brakes poorly, please see the attached pages - look under Safety & Security. The old one says it's got Brake Assist in all the variants and its NOT optional. In the new Swift brochure Brake Assist is only on the Z variant.
...
...
If this brake assist thingy is inside the brake booster i think swapping out the new Swift's booster with the old one's might get some bite back into the brakes. Just my thoughts.
Spot on Sankar. I did conclude the same on this thread. I think I'll try to swap out the old VDi brake booster and plonk it into this one. Does anyone here know the cost of the brake booster?
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Old 14th May 2012, 12:22   #217
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Hello Bhpains

I didn't find any issue with brakes on my swift Zdi , i have been driving hard and there has been no problem so far . I have driven 13000 kms so far without any issue with brakes . There were some instance i have to brake hard at time and it came to halt in limits . If there is issue with lower variants then do escalate to maruti engineers , maruti really works hard to resolve customer problems .
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Old 14th May 2012, 12:44   #218
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

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Originally Posted by Safari_Beast View Post
Hello Bhpains

I didn't find any issue with brakes on my swift Zdi , i have been driving hard and there has been no problem so far . I have driven 13000 kms so far without any issue with brakes . There were some instance i have to brake hard at time and it came to halt in limits . If there is issue with lower variants then do escalate to maruti engineers , maruti really works hard to resolve customer problems .


I have been pushing my ZDI hard in the past 3-4 months and have covered about 14k on the Odo. Not faced a single issue with the braking, but really irritated with the Tyre noise
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Old 14th May 2012, 12:47   #219
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Tyre noise is there but is at high speeds , its not too much but its there . I changed the tyres to bridgestone turanza er 60 on very first day . Is your swift on OEM tyres or you have replaced it .

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I have been pushing my ZDI hard in the past 3-4 months and have covered about 14k on the Odo. Not faced a single issue with the braking, but really irritated with the Tyre noise
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Old 14th May 2012, 12:57   #220
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Yes, I am still on the stock tyres.
Planning for a change at 25k. Probably will go for A or S drives.
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Old 14th May 2012, 13:45   #221
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Spot on Sankar. I did conclude the same on this thread. I think I'll try to swap out the old VDi brake booster and plonk it into this one. Does anyone here know the cost of the brake booster?
Cost of brake master cylinder with booster should be around 3 to 4k as per the excel sheet.
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Old 15th May 2012, 13:51   #222
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Hello friends, I am also not satisfied with my swift Zdi braking character. Till date done about 3k kms . What i feel is that the brakes do work well to control higher speeds ie. to come to a halt or slow down from 60 - 80kmph.Because to achieve this we will automatically apply more pressure on the pedal than to stop from 20 - 40 kmph. This is what i feel .Also the zdi brakes are not as razor sharp as the brakes on my 2006 swift Zxi petrol.
To compare the two, what i do is accelerate hard to about 60-70kph & apply brakes in rapid succession .The older zxi responds to each & every jab on the brake pedal & shows urgency in stopping in every action on the pedal & the suspension (front) dips on every jab. Now the Zdi only shows some urgency in stopping when the brake pedal is pressed harder & a mere jab or light pressing fails to get it to do anything significant.
So, i concluded that the newer Zdi lacks the bite as compaired to older Zxi.But i am afraid to get it diagnosed as the Mass may keep on experimenting on it without any solution & to my satisfaction.So i generally drive it sedately.
Also i have upsized to 195/60/R15 Michellin primacy LC running F/R 32/30psi air pressure. Any inputs are welcome.
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Old 15th May 2012, 14:10   #223
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Are the Dzire vdi and ldi too plagued by poor brakes like the swift or are things different for the Dzire?
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Old 15th May 2012, 17:27   #224
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

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Are the Dzire vdi and ldi too plagued by poor brakes like the swift or are things different for the Dzire?
I am assuming that you are talking about the new DZire. If yes, then there isn't any mechanical difference between the DZire VDi / LDi and the Swift VDi / LDi as mentioned in the official review: link.
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Old 19th May 2012, 19:03   #225
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

I own the all new swift Vxi (Nov. 2011 batch). Since the initial stage, I have this issue with brakes getting hard at low speeds (or reverse) with half clutch and when brakes are applied multiple times. I have been posting here and in other places too. I am not alone, there are close to 5-6 people who reported this issue with maruti. **I have already explained this issue in the previous posts in this thread**

During the 2nd service (dated: 12-May), I had given my car with this complaint, the SA never understood this issue. I escalated it to the manager who drove the car and confirmed that the brakes are becoming rock hard at low speeds (1st gear, say 5 km/hr) and during reverse. Meanwhile, he said he will look into the issue and try to correct it. Got the car after the service and the issue doesnt seem to be corrected.

I shot an email to maruti customer care. Was told to bring back the car the service center. Had a talk to the maruti territory manager who said it is all normal. His point of view were:

At low rpm, the engine does not produce sufficient vacuum and there-by the brakes get really hard. He had asked me not to use half clutch but instead wanted me to use full clutch before braking. Though his theory seem all that nice and good, I wasnt sure it will be practically possible. In stop-and-go traffic, half clutch+brake is the way to go. Traffic in chennai is terrible and B2B almost 80% of the time. I am forced to use half clutch+brake. Driving style is the same even while taking reverse.

At last the manager agreed that the engine at lower rpm does not produce sufficient vacuum to enable effective operation of the brake booster. He said it is a feature to which I could only laugh at his face. I told him about the near accident experience in which my brakes become rock hard and i nearly rammed into a car infront of me. He then said they will look into the issue and change the brake booster. I was ok as long as the issue is resolve
Today, the brake booster arrived. Got them changed but the issue still exists. The service center and maruti are in talks to get this issue rectified. The manager of the service center said, he will not be able to deliver the car unless the issue is resolved. I admire maruti's commitment to customer satisfaction! but i feel they need to find a solution to this issue.

MODs: I didnt want to open a new thread for this issue. You could move it to the appropriate thread if a thread for new swift's niggles and issues exists. If maruti isnt able to resolve this issue, the better replace the car or refund my money.
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