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Old 12th October 2011, 11:21   #31
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Talking Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

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Originally Posted by spadix View Post
Don't try this on inclines but of course, which sane driver does 100+ kmph on inclines/ghats anyway?
Completely agree.

Sane drivers stick to 80 kph while ascending hill stations like Dharamsala !
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Old 12th October 2011, 11:27   #32
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
I bought the Gen 3 Maruti Suzuki Swift VDi just over a month ago. The car is an excellent package. Arguably the best Diesel Hatch available in the market today. The large number of orders Maruti Suzuki received before launch is a testimony of the success of the product. I have driven my car for 3,500 kms in a month and have been happy in all aspects except the brakes!

As soon as I took delivery of the car, I upgraded the tyres in my car from the skinny 165/80/R14's to 185/70/R14's to have enough grip for highway travel. I thought I was done for many miles of happy motoring. But, I was wrong, the initial impressions showed that the brakes would prove "adequate" but they are NOT. They are simply POOR. To make sure it wasn't just me I did offer test drives to my friends and ALL of them complained that the car doesn't have enough braking power. To put things in perspective I would like to report that the brakes on a non-booster assisted Maruti 800 are better.

I drove to Goa on Thursday and realized that in panic braking situations, the car simply leaps forward instead of coming to a grinding halt screeching its tyres. At one occassion, I almost went into an oncoming Innova because the car refused to stop in time, I had to swerve to avoid collision. This was on a State highway at speeds between 60-80 kmph. The first 40% of brake pedal travel doesn't give any braking feedback, the rest is just like stepping on a hard piece of rubber that isn't holding up. The brakes feel spongy. After about 200 kms of highway driving on NH4, there was brake fade. The brakes wouldn't respond at speeds over 100 kmph unless you literally stepped on them.

If you go through the test drive experiences of fellow bhpians in the official car review, there is just one common echo, "Bad brakes". I haven't driven the ZDi but many posts on this forum confirm that the Z spec has better stopping power compared to the V and L variants.

The Swift simply fails in the braking department and I have changed my driving style to accomodate the lack of brakes on the Swift. I posted a separate thread in order to ensure that this issue is highlighted to fellow bhpians wanting to opt for an LXi/LDi/VXi/VDi Swift. They simply refuse to stop and its time Maruti Suzuki fixes this issue on their assembly line.

I would like to say that brakes play a major role that too looking at Indian Road condition- where suddenly some one would come from nowhere & you need to brake.

With Manufacturer like Maruti who is a bulk player- I feel that they should take this as “vital Improvement opportunity” & replace/redesign the system to take care of all the customer who has brought this product.

Things like Improvement opportunity take a back seat normally & now when you have so many issues’ going on in maruti,

I get worried that whether this issue would be addressed in a timely manner but till that time comes the existing customer’s who have the product needs to suffer.

Thanks & Regards
Anupam
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Old 12th October 2011, 11:59   #33
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Dear Lord, not that "put it in neutral before braking" debate again. There is a thread dedicated to that, please post there, guys. Kiran has a serious problem that seems to be shared across a lot of new Swift owners and these digressions will only take away from the main topic of discussion.

Incidentally, I have never driven a diesel car for any sustained period of time but from my limited experience, didn't notice any significant difference in the braking technique vis-a-vis petrol cars (which I've driven for nearly 20 years now). So what was that comment about him "braking like a petrol owner"?
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Old 12th October 2011, 12:18   #34
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

I shift to neutral or a lower gear when I feel the engine resist the braking which happens mostly due to the high torque and almost always at about 1000 rpm.
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Old 12th October 2011, 12:22   #35
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
To be fair I havent driven the new VDi but did test drive the ZDi and the brakes were pretty good. Shame that Maruti has chosen to equip the middle and low variant with such brakes. Did you not test drive before buying it?
Overdrive had a comparo between 6-7 hatchbacks. they used the z variant of swift and stopping distance was 33.xx meters while the best was 26.xx and worst 36.xx meters. I wonder what it would be if they used the V or L variants
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Old 12th October 2011, 12:30   #36
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

May be it is because of my lack of experience, I have never felt the need of shifting to neutral while breaking. I have tried shifting to neutral and break, while costing to a stop, but some how, i feel more comfortable breaking in gear than in neutral.

I have done couple of long drives (including ghat sections) on couple of different petrol cars, but never felt any difference in breaking between petrol and diesel cars (90% of driving experience is on diesel cars, starting with our old Ambassador).

I think irrespective of the car being a diesel or petrol, breaks should provide adequate stopping power. There is no point in blaming different 'techniques' because 90% of these cars will be driven by common man (ie - non-petrol\diesel heads) and when they press break pedal, they will expect the car to come to a stop.

As @noopster have pointed out, "Kiran has a serious problem that seems to be shared across a lot of new Swift owners and these digressions will only take away from the main topic of discussion."
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Old 12th October 2011, 12:34   #37
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Its a shame to hear about the poor braking in the lower variants of the new Swift, hope MSIL address this quickly. That kind of experience on a highway can be downright scary.

And now, before I forget all that I have learnt over three & a half decades of driving & braking in both Petrol & Diesel cars, I better get out of this thread!
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Old 12th October 2011, 12:41   #38
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

let us not get side tracked on "how" to brake.

is there any statistical data available for 100-0 time and distance for the gen 3 swift in any of the magazines? (w/o ABS and vis a vis time in Z spec).

+1 to suman, i might soon forget all the breaking techniques learnt so far!

Last edited by govigov : 12th October 2011 at 12:53.
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Old 12th October 2011, 12:50   #39
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

This is the reason why one should wait for at least an year after launch so that niggles with initial batches are sorted out. Of course "early-adapters" will protest but I will rather be safe with my cash than sorry.

That said this is definitely not a niggle. Its a major issue. I can see Maruti issuing a recall for this issue.
But given the ongoing tussle at its plants I am not sure when it will happen.

Strange that they removed ABS from V variants. I mean if someone is willing to pay for it then whats the problem in providing the same.
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Old 12th October 2011, 14:02   #40
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Dear Lord, not that "put it in neutral before braking" debate again. There is a thread dedicated to that, please post there, guys. Kiran has a serious problem that seems to be shared across a lot of new Swift owners and these digressions will only take away from the main topic of discussion.

Incidentally, I have never driven a diesel car for any sustained period of time but from my limited experience, didn't notice any significant difference in the braking technique vis-a-vis petrol cars (which I've driven for nearly 20 years now). So what was that comment about him "braking like a petrol owner"?
Dear Lord,

Why don't you try it practically in a swift diesel (pref prev gen) before you reply?

I am a swift owner with 73k driven - I am giving him a solution which works rather well in my experience at daily triple digit (or close enough) speeds.

Are you implying that because it is not something you have experienced, or because it doesn't intuitively agree with your experience - it is not an attempt to help him? Dear Lord! Please read!

I am just sharing what works for me every single day in the hope that he can use it right away. So what is your comment about? Dismissing it outright. Spare me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnrajdeep View Post
I shift to neutral or a lower gear when I feel the engine resist the braking which happens mostly due to the high torque and almost always at about 1000 rpm.
Therefore, if you were to regularly drive in the turbo zone (again high torque) on the expressway - then we are in agreement.

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Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
May be it is because of my lack of experience, I have never felt the need of shifting to neutral while breaking. I have tried shifting to neutral and break, while costing to a stop, but some how, i feel more comfortable breaking in gear than in neutral.

I have done couple of long drives (including ghat sections) on couple of different petrol cars, but never felt any difference in breaking between petrol and diesel cars (90% of driving experience is on diesel cars, starting with our old Ambassador).

I think irrespective of the car being a diesel or petrol, breaks should provide adequate stopping power. There is no point in blaming different 'techniques' because 90% of these cars will be driven by common man (ie - non-petrol\diesel heads) and when they press break pedal, they will expect the car to come to a stop.

As @noopster have pointed out, "Kiran has a serious problem that seems to be shared across a lot of new Swift owners and these digressions will only take away from the main topic of discussion."
Anoop, I agree on your basic premise - braking should be simpler for the common folk. However, again, why do you think my technique cannot be useful for Kiran?

Let me give u another data point - a female friend (non techie common driver) who TD'ed my swift complained about the absolutely shoddy braking compared to her santro. Thereafter I demo'ed my driving style - and now she drives her Ikon TDCi in a very similar fashion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Its a shame to hear about the poor braking in the lower variants of the new Swift, hope MSIL address this quickly. That kind of experience on a highway can be downright scary.

And now, before I forget all that I have learnt over three & a half decades of driving & braking in both Petrol & Diesel cars, I better get out of this thread!
I would much rather that you either post a practical rebuttal than obliquely dismiss it without giving any logic. You're welcome for a demo anytime - maybe this way, you will actually attend one of our Gurgaon meets!

Quote:
Originally Posted by govigov View Post
let us not get side tracked on "how" to brake.

is there any statistical data available for 100-0 time and distance for the gen 3 swift in any of the magazines? (w/o ABS and vis a vis time in Z spec).

+1 to suman, i might soon forget all the breaking techniques learnt so far!
Snide comments aside, why is sharing my practical experience, a sidetrack? I am giving my experience that has worked in the previous generation of the same car and you are obliquely dismissing it like suman. Spare me the preaching.

As always, any disbelievers can always hitch a ride with me in Gurgaon anytime and I will gladly demonstrate it. Which is why I asked Spadix to post here!
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Old 12th October 2011, 14:12   #41
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post

Anoop, I agree on your basic premise - braking should be simpler for the common folk. However, again, why do you think my technique cannot be useful for Kiran?
Bro, I never said or felt your technique will not work for Suman, all I said was, I was not really comfortable to shift to neutral and break.

My concern is about the common folk who presumably will not have access or know how to different techniques.

What you have given is a workaround - there is no issues in giving a workaround, but a workaround is not a solution. Do you really think all these people who complained (including GTO) have raised the concern without a base?

While you and all of us are here to give workarounds and possible alternate solutions, what about the common man who do not have access to the know how?

Last edited by theexperthand : 12th October 2011 at 14:14.
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Old 12th October 2011, 14:16   #42
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
I would much rather that you either post a practical rebuttal than obliquely dismiss it without giving any logic. You're welcome for a demo anytime - maybe this way, you will actually attend one of our Gurgaon meets!
So does the Diesel Swift have different parameters compared to other Diesels?

Never in my 1.10 lakh kilometers odd of driving Diesels have I ever had to switch to "Neutral" while braking. In fact, shifting to neutral & "coasting" is one of the worst diseases that plague a large number of drivers on our roads today

And, to be honest, all this about how a person brakes a Petrol car versus a Diesel car is pure conjecture on your part methinks. Do let me know the number of kilometers clocked in a Petrol car as compared to the 73k on your current ride. I have never felt a difference in the past six years when I have been driving both the Diesel & the Petrol in-house, side by side. Lets not try to defend shoddy braking on the Swift. Can't say I've heard anyone else complaining about this on any other Diesel Car versus its Petrol sibling so why the Swift? It is just poor brakes IMHO, that's all.

Last edited by suman : 12th October 2011 at 14:20.
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Old 12th October 2011, 14:16   #43
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Kiran thats a sad news. however when i tried it in city i found the braking ok sorts. but as you say highways is a different story.

well if maruti is not solving this problem how about trying a performance brake pad from brembo or ebc or something similar?
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Old 12th October 2011, 14:41   #44
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Brakes are The most critical part in an automobile which separates you from life and death in most accidents. Any manufacturer compromising on that is not fit to be in the industry.
Cmon don't educate on a forum like team-bhp how to brake. For me this is totally involuntary. I won't even be able to put together the sequence.
If a car is having bad brakes which is widely reported, accept the reality and get answers from the company.
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Old 12th October 2011, 15:11   #45
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Phamilyman,

Your sarcasm is lost on me. I am also not taking your bait when say "Are you implying...?" Simple answer: Nope am not implying anything other than what I said, which I stand by.

About the "hit the clutch when you brake" debate that I mentioned, well... don't take my word for it. This (Shifting to Neutral or Pressing the Clutch when Braking - Is this right?) is the link:

Also, a significant part of this more recent discussion (Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down). Pages 6 through 11 mostly.

Appeal to mods: please clean up this thread. Kiran is an experienced driver and has a genuine problem. This debate can surely be continued in the other threads dedicated to this subject.
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