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Old 22nd October 2011, 04:34   #106
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Well done Humyum,
A great online lesson for down shifting the gear.If some one follows the y can drive in plains as well as Mountains. Every driver should learn and follow the downshifting for a safe reach. Some of my friend just break in 5 or 4 with out shifting and they will pick up from there itself. I will insist them to read this post.
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Old 22nd October 2011, 10:22   #107
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
Test Driven New Swift ZDi today again, while observing its each & every detail very carefully.
My observations are;
-Looks, Fit & finishing are good.
-Interior dashboard is having good design but its Plastic Quality is really poor as compared to Polo, Punto, Fabia & Micra.
-Plastic panels are really very flimsy with having very fragile feel, especially the Door pads & handles.
-Claustrophobic cabin(even for Driver & front passenger also) as the Window line is still very high further plagued by Dark Coal black Interior shade.
-Engine performance is good with Turbo kicking into action at around 1800Rpm.
-I was Shocked to see that even with 185-section tyres, Swift ride is very light & at 60kmph+ speeds it doesn't inspire any confidence either or maybe In other words, I'm spoiled by the Test Drives of Solid & Pliant ride of European cars.
-Car retardation(Deceleration) due to engine is now better than Old Swift(which always tends to accelerate even while taking the feet above the accelerator pedal).
SE called this some 'Rapid Deceleration technology', which is now introduced into this New Swift.
-Braking performance is good & somehow 'Adequate'in ZDi variant, but I'd still rate Polo, Punto & Micra's brakes better.

Good observation CRtorquefan.

Though I agree with most of the points, as far as feeling Claustrophobic in the front side is concerned it is not true in my opinion, about the back I don't know never sat on the back seat .

The car handles extremely well at high speeds (unbiased opinion). Agreed that European cars are built like tanks and instill confidence at high speeds. I have pushed my ZDI to 150+ speeds and it handles superbly without any vibrations of the steering.

The interior is top class and do not look cheap (to each his own ) as in the older swift. Only the side view mirror control joy stick seems fragile. The rest of the stuff looks preety sturdy and by no means flimsy.

No idea about the 'Rapid Deceleration technology', maybe you could enlighten us on this.

I have a feeling that braking for whichever car is concerned is preety subjective from driver to driver feel and is debatable when considering the cars in the same segment. I fould the brakes good for Polo, Punto, Micra & ZDI.

Last edited by Racer_X : 22nd October 2011 at 10:27.
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Old 22nd October 2011, 13:29   #108
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Rapid Deceleration - I think he is referring to the new-gen ABS module used in the new swift, nothing more. Anyways as observed earlier, swifts braking is definitely not one of its strong points even with ABS.

Did anyone escalate this issue to Maruti and get a response from them? In the last gen V/L DI's, they did a replacement free of cost only if the customer's complained about the braking performance and not otherwise. They never made a recall/accept the issue and this change was only done with the authorization of the Maruti's RSM to the service center. Service center's in most cases denied such a development and made customer's run from pillar to post to get this change done. I'm not sure how many last gen L/VDI owners outside the forum are even aware of an upgraded booster, I'd say hardly any!

If maruti had still persisted with 10 inch booster's in their new swift, it doesnt show them in good light.

Last edited by bala80 : 22nd October 2011 at 13:31.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 10:39   #109
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
Test Driven New Swift ZDi today again, while observing its each & every detail very carefully.
My observations are;

-Braking performance is good & somehow 'Adequate'in ZDi variant, but I'd still rate Polo, Punto & Micra's brakes better.
+1 to that. I TD'ed the Swift and then the i20 CRDi /Punto 90, the 'bite' that unto braked had was far batter than the Swift's. Swift ZDi with ABS, EBD and brake assist does not inspire confidence like what the Punto does.

I tried braking on both cars at 80-90 kmph and i'll certainly rate the i20/Punto superior to the Swift. Swift is just adequate nothing more.

But knowing Maruti i'm sure they'll provide an upgrade if customers complain, but whether they'll do it on Zdi model which already has ABS, Brake assist and EBD is a question.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 14:15   #110
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Looks like a common issue / feeling about the braking performance among many Swift owners, but seeing the number of misconceptions / assumptions floated on this thread, I think a few things need to be clarified.

(1) What is Brake Assist?
In emergency braking situations, drivers tend to press the brake pedal quickly, but due to panic, not keep the brake pedal pressed fully. Brake Assist is a feature which can sense this rapid travel of the brake pedal and increase the brake boost automatically. Mechanical brake assist (present in cars like the Swift), uses a mechanical system inside the brake booster to increase the boost automatically when panic braking is judged, thus increasing the braking force at the wheels.

(2) If Brake Assist is so useful, why does Maruti not give it in the LDi and VDi variants?
Brake Assist increases the brake boost, taking the braking force upto the wheel locking condition. In a vehicle without ABS, this would cause wheel locking, and thereby, vehicle instability. Therefore, Brake Assist is provided only in vehicles with ABS. That is why, Maruti has not given Brake Assist in LXi, LDi, VXi or VDI; and only in ZXi and ZDi. In case of ZXi and ZDi, brake assist increases the brake pressure upto wheel locking condition, from where ABS takes over and prevents wheel lock. This gives the best possible braking condition for a given vehicle.

Bottomline is, Brake Assist should not be given in a vehicle without ABS. It can cause wheel lock!

(3) Does the Swift have a brake booster?
Yes. All Swift variants use a 9 inch brake booster. The only difference in ABS equipped models is the addition of Brake Assist feature. The ONLY MSIL model in the current line-up which does not have a brake booster is the M800.

(4) L and V grades have poorer brakes than the Z grade. How could MSIL do such cost-cutting on a safety feature like brakes?
Fact: L, V and Z grades use the same base brake system, except for addition of ABS, EBD and Mechanical Brake Assist in Z grade. This does not have anything to do with normal braking performance. ABS or Brake Assist comes into play ONLY in a panic braking situation. EBD (Electronic Brakeforce Distribution) is purely a replacement for the mechanical proportionating valve (P-valve) used for distributing the brake pressure between the front and rear axles, due to the weight transfer during braking.

(5) In the older Swift, MSIL upgraded the booster size due to customer feedback. It looks like MSIL did not carry over this change for the new Swift. They have done some cost-cutting!
Fact: The Swift always had a 9 inch brake booster. The only upgrade which was done on the previous Swift Diesel was a change in the servo ratio of the booster, due to market feedback. All variants of the new Swift also have a 9 inch brake booster, with the improvement in servo ratio carried over.

(6) If not in the brake booster, MSIL has done cost-cutting somewhere in the braking system of the new Swift for sure!
Fact: The brake specifications are exactly the same for old and new Swift.

I respect the feelings of all Swift users / potential owners about the braking performance, but it looked like this thread was going in the wrong direction with a lot of assumptions. Hope this is taken in the right spirit.

@moralfibre: It would be a good idea to get your brake system checked at the nearest MASS, and have it bled to be doubly sure that there is no air-entrapment in the circuit.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 14:26   #111
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viju View Post
I respect the feelings of all Swift users / potential owners about the braking performance, but it looked like this thread was going in the wrong direction with a lot of assumptions. Hope this is taken in the right spirit.
With all due respect, if all that you have stated above are true - and if there is indeed no change wrt to the old swift.

Can you explain why the brakes feel weak compared to the older generation? Now, dont tell thats its just an assumption. We have owners and other senior members complaining of the same. Its been highlighted in the official review as well.

And if its a problem with bleeding - all new cars have to be checked for the same? If so, Maruti would be better off doing a recall.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 14:36   #112
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
No idea about the 'Rapid Deceleration technology', maybe you could enlighten us on this.
Speaking in simple words,
Even after taking the right foot off the Accelerator pedal(while slowing down), the engine of previous Swift continues to be in the state of Active motion(unlike other engines which slows down to Idle immediately as you keep your foot off the Accelerator pedal).
Which in turn keeps the momentum of the car alive, until the brakes are applied & many times this has lead to fatalities.
As per SE that issue is resolved in New Swift by calibrating its ECU.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 14:44   #113
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

@Crazy Driver: No, to be honest I cannot explain why the brakes feel weak when compared to the older generation. In fact, I have not lived with either the old or the new car to have a conclusive opinion in a comparative manner. But in the short drives I had in either vehicle, I could not find a significant difference in the braking either.

Like I mentioned before, my only intention was to clear some of the misconceptions, and not justify the braking performance (or the lack of it).

And the suggestion I gave to moralfibre was only that - a friendly suggestion to see if the situation improves. It did not imply that all new Swift owners should go in for a brake bleeding.

I do not intend to get into a war of words. As a member of this community, I only wanted to share some information that I was sure of, so that this discussion has a better direction. Peace.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 15:02   #114
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viju View Post
(3) Does the Swift have a brake booster?
Yes. All Swift variants use a 9 inch brake booster. The only difference in ABS equipped models is the addition of Brake Assist feature. The ONLY MSIL model in the current line-up which does not have a brake booster is the M800.
What !!
Even Hyundai Santro features 9-inch Brake booster, while Alto & Wagon-R uses 8-inch brake booster.
But the worst thing is that why a Big & High Speed car, like Swift can boast of just adequate specification, when it's having other things like Power, FE, Handling in excess.
Or MSIL is smartly keeping this Weak Braking a Weak link for its owners to prevent Over-speeding, as If you evaluate Current Swift's braking & tyre-spec is adequate upto 80-90kmph which inturn is a limit for its light Body crashworthiness also.
Imagine a Swift with Punto-like powerful brakes, everybody will be driving it at 120kmph+ speeds on Highways, which inturn can be easily achieved by its Torquey & powerful 1.3 DDiS diesel engine.
What will be Safety of car at that speeds except Brakes !
-Light thin metal body, light car weight, current Suspension setup, etc nothing will be the saviour then.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 15:13   #115
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viju View Post
(3) Does the Swift have a brake booster?
Yes. All Swift variants use a 9 inch brake booster. The only difference in ABS equipped models is the addition of Brake Assist feature. The ONLY MSIL model in the current line-up which does not have a brake booster is the M800.
Okay I need to make a correction here, The Older Swift Diesel factory fitted had a 10 inch brake booster and on complaining it was replaced to an 11 inch brake booster.

If the new Swift uses a 9 inch brake booster, then there lies your problem. It would have brakes weaker than what the swift older swift's originally 'weaker' brakes and hence an unstoppable bullet.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 16:05   #116
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
But knowing Maruti i'm sure they'll provide an upgrade if customers complain, but whether they'll do it on Zdi model which already has ABS, Brake assist and EBD is a question.
Why not to ZDI. If they are doing somethnig, it will be an up gradation of break booster which is same on all models. ZDI has break assist.
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Old 24th October 2011, 00:02   #117
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
What !!
Even Hyundai Santro features 9-inch Brake booster, while Alto & Wagon-R uses 8-inch brake booster.
But the worst thing is that why a Big & High Speed car, like Swift can boast of just adequate specification, when it's having other things like Power, FE, Handling in excess.
Or MSIL is smartly keeping this Weak Braking a Weak link for its owners to prevent Over-speeding, as If you evaluate Current Swift's braking & tyre-spec is adequate upto 80-90kmph which inturn is a limit for its light Body crashworthiness also.
Imagine a Swift with Punto-like powerful brakes, everybody will be driving it at 120kmph+ speeds on Highways, which inturn can be easily achieved by its Torquey & powerful 1.3 DDiS diesel engine.
What will be Safety of car at that speeds except Brakes !
-Light thin metal body, light car weight, current Suspension setup, etc nothing will be the saviour then.



purposely have weak brakes so that car will be driven slowly?
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Old 24th October 2011, 00:23   #118
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by devil_klm View Post
Why not to ZDI. If they are doing somethnig, it will be an up gradation of break booster which is same on all models. ZDI has break assist.
Yup if its a brake booster that needs to be changed then it will be done on ALL variants i guess.

These initial problems that are typically found in the first few batches of any is what makes wait and not buy at launch, anyway that's a different topic altogether.
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Old 24th October 2011, 11:42   #119
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
With all due respect, if all that you have stated above are true - and if there is indeed no change wrt to the old swift.

Can you explain why the brakes feel weak compared to the older generation? Now, dont tell thats its just an assumption. We have owners and other senior members complaining of the same. Its been highlighted in the official review as well.

And if its a problem with bleeding - all new cars have to be checked for the same? If so, Maruti would be better off doing a recall.
I agree, MUL must recall and fix the breaking issue. I am surprised that no one has gone back to MUL with this and probably file a PIL on them. This was not expected by one of the oldest car manufacture in the country.
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Old 24th October 2011, 17:22   #120
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Default Re: Attention: New Maruti Suzuki Swift Brake Issue

Firstly thank you for the informative post.

Are you implying it is impossible to get the wheels locked in the L/V DI variants since it doesnt feature brake assist? I never could get the wheels locked in my swift during emergency braking and that was my major complaint against it. Wouldn't you attribute the locking of wheels on non-ABS model to be maximum braking force/bite that can be acheived? (Its a different story that the maximum braking is not equal to effective braking as it has to be on the threshold point just before the wheels get locked up)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viju View Post
Bottomline is, Brake Assist should not be given in a vehicle without ABS. It can cause wheel lock!
As humyum mentioned above, Im too one of those who got the booster assembly of my earlier generation swift changed and my understanding too was that they had replaced the old 10 inch booster with a 11 inch booster. Pardon my ignorance but for changing the servo ratio, does the entire booster assembly has to be replaced?

Quote:
Fact: The Swift always had a 9 inch brake booster. The only upgrade which was done on the previous Swift Diesel was a change in the servo ratio of the booster, due to market feedback. All variants of the new Swift also have a 9 inch brake booster, with the improvement in servo ratio carried over.
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