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Old 16th October 2011, 20:35   #16
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Default Re: Are brakes on Civic really bad?

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Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post
Wikipedia itself says that ABS increases distance under certain conditions (on gravel for example). May be one should check Wikipedia himself before suggesting others to check Wikipedia
I saw that before writing the post. My intention was to provoke a discussion.
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Old 16th October 2011, 23:28   #17
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Default Re: Are brakes on Civic really bad?

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Originally Posted by dot View Post
This is something new for me. Is it true that ABS increases braking distance? A quick search on the net revealed the opposite. Guys, check wikipedia. Lets have some discussion on this.
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Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post
Wikipedia itself says that ABS increases distance under certain conditions (on gravel for example). May be one should check Wikipedia himself before suggesting others to check Wikipedia
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Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
dot, under certain conditions, ABS does increase braking distances. You can find a detailed discussion under the "ABS Discussion Thread"
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Originally Posted by dot View Post
I saw that before writing the post. My intention was to provoke a discussion.
I agree that ABS increases braking distance, from my own experience. And I feel it is more in all conditions [tarmac / gravel]. I believe the reason is because it prevents the tyres skidding by modulating the pressure and hence the vehicle goes a slightly more distance than when the vehicle skids [in a straight line].

In gravel, the story is altogether different, ABS will act as if the brakes are NOT even working irrespective of the pressure you put on the pedal. Trust me, I had my heart in my mouth when I had to get down to gravel and tried to stop my car. I am sure that's the last thing what I want to go thru once again in my life.

Edit
:: And in fact I have found that pumping the brakes fetch better stopping distances compared to the continuous braking. I don't think this is something that's suggested to do with an ABS equipped vehicle, but it improves my confidence & have seen better braking efficiency in my car.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 16th October 2011 at 23:31.
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Old 17th October 2011, 09:55   #18
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Default Re: Are brakes on Civic really bad?

Been working on these technologies for over a decade. On ABS enabled vehicles, the pumping action - stop release is taken care by the ecu and the user just have to depress the brakes throughout. ABS increases stopping distances on normal situations and prevents a wheel lockout and skid providing you with maneuverability of the vehicle. The driver too needs to be prepared to use the control provided to him, else the technologies are just technologies. So if you expect ABS cars to have better stopping - check your understanding, it's better control. The vehicle stops for sure!
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Old 17th October 2011, 12:18   #19
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Default Re: Are brakes on Civic really bad?

I took my cousin to a closed road today to see what is going on in my Civic. First things first, the tyres, brakes, brake pads, oil are in perfect condition, that is what we ensured with the Honda people. They told they will show it to an engineer shortly.

Now, I braked the car extensively again and again at high speeds. Now what I realised was that there was more screeching sound from the front right tyre. Secondly, whenever there was even slightest gravel, the front right tyre locked faster than the left one and then a lot of spring etc etc sounds as if something is working more than it should. Alignment and balancing done and when again taken to the empty stretch, again same thing. What can it be that caused one tyre to behave so differently.

Now, is it because of some fault in the tyres itself? If so, the tyre change will take time, what to do? Maybe I should try changing front with rear one's. Any inputs? I can't tell how freakish hard breaking is in normal driving conditions.....imagine you hear all those 'things breaking' sounds before you actually get scared of colliding into an object
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Old 19th October 2011, 08:18   #20
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Please check the car on ramp without tyres. Ask someone from workshop to run the car and brake while others observe. The calliper piston may be at fault on the side which is taking longer time to stop. Kindly check for over heating of the two front wheels under normal driving cycle. My OHC-Vtec owned had this problem which was rectified in this similar manner.
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Old 19th October 2011, 15:25   #21
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Default Re: Are brakes on Civic really bad?

I have driven Lalujis civic, It was driven hard and braked hard, we never felt it was bad in terms of braking; actually it was very good. Hopefully your car doesn't have any fault in the braking system and has decent tyres. please get it checked thoroughly once
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Old 19th October 2011, 16:10   #22
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Default Re: Are brakes on Civic really bad?

Modern ABS systems are better than what all but the very best can achieve with 'cadence braking', so we must trust them. Also, it is very rare for the ABS to increase the stopping distance.
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Old 19th October 2011, 20:08   #23
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Default Re: Are brakes on Civic really bad?

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
I agree that ABS increases braking distance, from my own experience. And I feel it is more in all conditions [tarmac / gravel]. I believe the reason is because it prevents the tyres skidding by modulating the pressure and hence the vehicle goes a slightly more distance than when the vehicle skids [in a straight line].
Skidding tyre (locked wheels) have same Mu as wheel at threshhold?

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In gravel, the story is altogether different, ABS will act as if the brakes are NOT even working irrespective of the pressure you put on the pedal.
??

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Originally Posted by laluks View Post
So if you expect ABS cars to have better stopping - check your understanding, it's better control. The vehicle stops for sure!
Better than what, worse than what?

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Sutripta
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Old 19th October 2011, 20:40   #24
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Default Re: Are brakes on Civic really bad?

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Skidding tyre (locked wheels) have same Mu as wheel at threshhold?
Could not understand this statement.

When you apply brakes in gravel, an ABS equipped car will roll much more than what you expect, since there is no skidding. From my experience, the distance to stop in gravel is considerably more than that on tarmac & can scare the driver & passengers.

Once, when I had to get down to gravel at some good speed, my friends in the car said that they thought I never applied brakes, seeing the way the car moved in gravel; though I had applied brakes to the fullest!
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Old 19th October 2011, 20:53   #25
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Default Re: Are brakes on Civic really bad?

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Could not understand this statement.
Mu refers to co efficient of friction.
When you apply brakes in gravel, an ABS equipped car will roll much more than what you expect, since there is no skidding. From my experience, the distance to stop in gravel is considerably more than that on tarmac & can scare the driver & passengers.

Once, when I had to get down to gravel at some good speed, my friends in the car said that they thought I never applied brakes, seeing the way the car moved in gravel; though I had applied brakes to the fullest!
Re gravel:- Well known, well documented. And predicted. Not just gravel, any loose surface.
Could not understand your previous statement about ABS and gravel.

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 19th October 2011 at 20:56.
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