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Old 27th October 2011, 00:07   #16
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Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

I dont know if we can generalise on this one..

In new generation cars, do we really get "engine" problems before 2 lakh kms?

From my experience, I've had the chance to live with an esteem (carb version) which ran to 1,85,000 kms and an opel astra diesel which clocked 1,75,000 kms. Both did not require any overhauling, but the opel engine felt like it's at the end of its life when we sold it. It vibrated too much and was far less entertaining to drive when compared to how it was new. I did not feel the same thing with the esteem. So I guess, with the older generation cars, petrol required less maintenance.

But if I look at the cars I own now, the octavia diesel had much fewer visits to the garage than my santro. The octy's clutch showed trouble only at 90K whereas the santro clutch lasted only 35K. I also had to get the crankshaft overhauled at 60K for the santro.

But again, the two cars are a couple of segments apart.
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Old 27th October 2011, 08:07   #17
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Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

My Diesel Lancer is 1,60,000 KMs old and never asked anything more than oil change once in 5000 KMs. Nothing else in true sense.

So is the Alto in the garage. As for as I have been seeing, both Petrol and Diesels are equally good. But this may hugely be dependent on the brand where the engines originate. No offence intended for other brands since I do not know much about them.

I had seen Innovas comfortably running touchwood post 1.6 lakh KMs though.
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Old 27th October 2011, 08:32   #18
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Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

Have done almost half a million kms in various diesels including Indica/Indigo/Scorpio/Innova/Figo, I can safely say that Diesel being not reliable/require very high maintenance is a pure myth in current day scenario. Friends in Taxi business are successfully running almost any diesel on other side of quarter million in EVERY car. Needless to say, that require periodic checkup/servicing and sticking to trusted bunker for refueling.

Having said that, I am currently driving a Petrol/CNG Swift with almost 1.5 Lac kms on odo and that too is working flawlessly

So probably all modern day engines are built to last provided you take good care of your machine
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Old 27th October 2011, 11:24   #19
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Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

I would like to re phrase my earlier query: Will Diesel engine serve me as efficiently without major problems over long haul, even if I do not take it out daily?
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Old 27th October 2011, 15:57   #20
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Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

Diesels being unreliable and requiring higer maintenance is a thing of the past. Oil change intervals have increased and they are less smokier and noisy in addition to being much more powerful.

A cousin of mine has an 8 year old Esteem Petrol MPFI. The car has done 1,80,000 km and is going steady.

I have Esteem Diesel, of the same age. Today the odo stands at 3,20,000 km. Heres a Link.

Both engines were serviced religiously. In both the cars, the body is aging but the engine is still going strong. None of the engines seem to have any loss in performance over the kilometers.
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Old 27th October 2011, 16:20   #21
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Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

Have no experience with diesels, but a conversation I had couple days ago came to mind.

A doctor I know in Kerala had a Santro as his 1st car many years ago - was mighty happy with it. After some 4-5 years he decides to upgrade, and exchanges it for a Verna-D (pre-Fluidic). He missed the high-seating of Santro, but overall looked happy. Couple days ago he sold the Verna after using it for 4 years and I assumed he would be upgrading to either a costlier diesel sedan like Cruze or a diesel SUV. Was surprised when he said he plans to buy either the Swift-P or Accent-P.

Reason : As per him, diesels cost a lot to maintain. I don't think he has had reliability issues with the Verna, but looks like he was paying a packet for regular maintenance, which put him off. Not sure if this is true for all diesels or due to Hyundai charging a bomb for maintenance - of late keep reading a lot about costly Hyundai maintenance on the forum, while my assumption was they are almost there with MSIL.
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Old 27th October 2011, 18:46   #22
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Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

My perspective on this discussion..

A diesel engine normally operates at a much higher compression ratio than its petrol counterpart. Other factors remaining identical, the higher compression ratio would lead to an early breakdown and comparatively higher maintenance of a diesel engine as compared to petrol. Petrol engines are also lighter and hence the tyre wear-tear is bound to be less. Less weight will also mean lesser suspension system and steering related problems. Diesel engines require higher capacity batteries to start. If the fuel price difference is not considerable and if the low end torque on a diesel engine is something that can be overlooked, I will prefer a petrol engine.
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Old 27th October 2011, 19:13   #23
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Even i am not sure, But since i was looking to second hand cars, i always found diesel cars maintainence as very bad compared to pertol ones. test drove couple of diesels and was not satisfied, may be they are driven pedal to metal to extract torque or something.

Even the Indica diesel runs lakh and lakhs of kms, but will i buy that? NO

1. The Accent CRDi engine doesnt last more than 50k, forget 1 lakh, that was i was told by a mechanic. This is the same as Verna Old CRDI, the torque put by the engine cannot be sustained by the other components over a period of time.

2.I tried test driving Accent CRDI, and it had loud noise and drove kind like a van, of course the car was not maintained well.

3. My relatives Skoda octavia turbo charger when kaput, had to be imported from germany, costed nearly 2 lakh rupees. Well these and alll i have heard from people and not what i have experienced.

I am sure the expenses of a diesel and petrol will pretty much be similar, No way diesel in longer run can be cheaper to maintain to its petrol counterpart.

I think its a combnation of Brand, After sales service, situation and luck which makes diesel a better buy. But certainly though out the years i must admit that diesel technology and cars have come a long way. I dont think we can judge the reliability of a Diesel engine by the max km run, but how it runs, even a petrol engine can be in trouble after running 50 k in that matter.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Please use the "edit" button if posting within 30 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

Last edited by Technocrat : 29th October 2011 at 00:33. Reason: Please read the note in your post, thanks
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Old 27th October 2011, 20:49   #24
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Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

Speaking from the experience of 2 TCIC safaris - the most vehicle with the nighest niggilibility quotient. Even after parking for extensive periods of 6 months, it started with half a crank. Drove them for about 100,000 kms across the length and breadth of India. Gujarat Rajasthan Leh Arunachal China Border - never did the engine have any problems. So Diesel reliability isn't an issue.

However, it is everywhere else that created problems, but that's true for any Tata Vehicle.
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Old 28th October 2011, 10:18   #25
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Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

I can't generalize about a diesel engine vs. petrol, but like many I have personally witnessed high mileage examples.

1. Sumo (first generation) -- my maternal uncle owns it & has run it probably close to 2 lacs till date without any hiccups. He swears by it & has no plans of selling it in the near future.

2. Innova -- my office cab, has done about 7.27 lacs till date on stock engine & the reason I had even asked about the mileage was because it didn't feel out of shape despite being a taxi.

3. Alto -- my own car, with more than 1.5 lacs & I can safely vouch for the reliability of this small car.

4. Logan -- numerous taxi drivers speak for themselves

5. Indica -- I believe a lot of you may not agree, but the Indica is a favourite among taxi drivers in my office. The owner of the company who runs this cab service keeps telling me that when your car is gonna run more than a lac in about 7 months, in hatchbacks, it is the Indica which you want to buy.

Drive safe.
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Old 28th October 2011, 11:23   #26
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Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

I own a Innova diesel, but this is about my friend's Santro Xing, which is about 6 years old, and run over 1Lac km. Still feels like new, and engine runs silky smooth. No drop in pickup or power or kmpl. The batteries are still OEM, not changed! Tyres are changed once. Does servicing religiously at authorized centres of Hyundai.

Overall, he has been happy with Santro, though he also sometimes cribs about higher service cost. But then it is sometimes his fault, where he doesnt bother to check what 'value additions' the service centre has done!
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Old 28th October 2011, 19:36   #27
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Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolvap View Post
My perspective on this discussion..

A diesel engine normally operates at a much higher compression ratio than its petrol counterpart. Other factors remaining identical, the higher compression ratio would lead to an early breakdown and comparatively higher maintenance of a diesel engine as compared to petrol. Petrol engines are also lighter and hence the tyre wear-tear is bound to be less. Less weight will also mean lesser suspension system and steering related problems. Diesel engines require higher capacity batteries to start. If the fuel price difference is not considerable and if the low end torque on a diesel engine is something that can be overlooked, I will prefer a petrol engine.
I thoroughly disagree. Diesel engines have stronger internals. Higher compression ratios have nothing to do with early breakdowns.

Petrol engines are definitely much lighter -- if you shoehorn a large diesel into a puny car like a zen or esteem, you can expect your tyres to wear out faster. Should not make much difference on larger cars.

Have you taken into consideration, that a diesel engine does not require an ignition system at all and can start as long as fuel is fed into the engine? This itself makes a 'traditional' diesel engine way more reliable than a petrol.

I drive both petrol and diesel. No diesel can substitute a petrol engine in terms of outright refinement. However, diesels, if taken care of last much longer than petrol engines.
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Old 28th October 2011, 19:39   #28
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Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

Quote:
Originally Posted by rangarx View Post
My Diesel Lancer is 1,60,000 KMs old and never asked anything more than oil change once in 5000 KMs. Nothing else in true sense.
IMO, the Lancer diesel is the most reliable diesel. I have clocked 3,50,000 on mine and the only parts I have replaced are the water pump and the timing belt.
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Old 28th October 2011, 20:00   #29
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Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

I can tell you guys that most diesel engines wear out prematurely due to :

1) Owners being ignorant / careless about service intervals
2) Owners not changing the timing belts, water pump, crank seal, tensioner and idler pulleys every 1,00,000 kms
3) Adulterated fuel
4) Incorrect injection timing -- most service stations and workshops assume that it's easy to install a new timing belt on diesel cars. Little do they realise that the injection pump rotates a bit when they are installing a new timing belt. The only way to do this professionally is to get an injection sprocket lock for locking the cam and injection sprocket before removing the old timing belt. the engine gets noisier every time you miss a 'tooth' as far as timing is concerned. A noisier engine means the engine mounts will disintegrate faster and the crankshaft damper pulley may also get damaged due to the vibrations.

As for newer diesels :

VAG engines:
1) VWs are notorious for water pump failures. They use a plastic impeller that loosens on the shaft it's moulded on. The water pump assembly appears okay from the outside, but oftentimes, the impeller spins freely on the shaft it's supposed to spin with.

2) A few VWs have issues where the timing belt prematurely wears out.

Mercedes Benz diesels (particularly the E270 CDI)

1) Prone to crankshaft damper pulley failures.
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Old 28th October 2011, 23:42   #30
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Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

@thermalpaste..
How to get the Timing Belt adjusted Correctly from a Local Mechanic?
Local Mechanics avoid "Correct Adjustment of Timing Belt" since Incorrect Adjustment leads more revenues to them.

Is it correct that Common Rail Engines don't start if Timing Belt is not PERFECTLY fitted?

If slight variation is present, will it result in rough idle?
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