Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th November 2011, 11:28   #61
BHPian
 
Skyline GT-R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dubai
Posts: 594
Thanked: 202 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

To me it looks like a paid campaign to promote Petrol cars.

Today the car showrooms does not get any enquiries for Petrol versions in the 5 Lakhs+ range (atleast in Kerala). I am sure it will be the same in most of other parts as well.

All the companies are forced to give offers on Petrol versions. This calculation makes us Indian car customers feel like a bunch of fools?
Skyline GT-R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2011, 13:54   #62
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ghaziabad/Hyderabad/Mysore
Posts: 1,416
Thanked: 313 Times
Default Re: Zigwheels trying to mislead consumers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kadanaJ View Post
It really boils down to how much of a difference is there in the initial purchase price of the petrol and diesel models.

A friend of mine recently (2 weeks ago) bought a Skoda Superb Petrol. Naturally, with the price of petrol being as high as it is, I was shocked that he chose the gas-guzzler!
Upon asking him why he bought the petrol over the diesel, he told me, with the discounts and everything clubbed together, the diesel variant of the Superb cost over 3 lakh more than the petrol.

I argued no further.

Let us assume for five minutes that petrol and diesel would have cost about the same.

How much would he have saved in fuel costs over five years on a diesel (vs. petrol)? and is that a major differentiator when buying a 20L car?

I mean if you are that worried about fuel costs then just go ahead buy a cheaper car - that would save more money than petrol vs. diesel when you are in 15L+ category.




Also, since the thread was originally about petrol vs. diesel reliability, one question - how about comparison between turbo-petrol (only high end cars) and turbo-diesel (almost every diesel today)? Which one is more reliable?

Last edited by vina : 19th November 2011 at 13:58.
vina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2011, 16:15   #63
BHPian
 
kadanaJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 348
Thanked: 115 Times
Default Re: Zigwheels trying to mislead consumers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post
Let us assume for five minutes that petrol and diesel would have cost about the same.

How much would he have saved in fuel costs over five years on a diesel (vs. petrol)? and is that a major differentiator when buying a 20L car?

I mean if you are that worried about fuel costs then just go ahead buy a cheaper car - that would save more money than petrol vs. diesel when you are in 15L+ category.
I don't think he really would've saved a lot, his monthly running doesn't really exceed 1000km at best.

(FE Figures taken from Team-BHP Test Drive section)
Take into consideration the Petrol Superb gives an average of 7.8 kmpl in the city and petrol in Mumbai is around Rs. 73/litre, the per km cost is Rs. 9.35.
The Diesel gives 9.6 kmpl and costs Rs.45.28/litre, the per km cost is Rs. 4.72.
The Diesel would have saved him, in a month (1000 km) Rs. 4630.
In a year, it saves him Rs. 55,560.
That's Rs. 2,77,800 over 5 years.

He would have to keep the car for around 6 years to break even. That's not including the Interest he could've earned on the money initially saved.

Also, you can't really say "go ahead and buy a cheaper car if FE is a concern".
For some people cars are a matter of prestige. He wanted a big, spacious cars with lots of features. The Skoda Superb fit the bill.

If fuel efficiency was a primary criteria, everyone would be driving WagonR's or something .

As for savings in fuel costs in the 20 Lakh segment being a major differentiator, I honestly don't know.
I do know that diesel cars in that segment far outsell their petrol counterparts, but I can't speculate what goes through people's minds when choosing petrol or diesel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post
Also, since the thread was originally about petrol vs. diesel reliability, one question - how about comparison between turbo-petrol (only high end cars) and turbo-diesel (almost every diesel today)? Which one is more reliable?
That is a question even I would love to have answered, but not just only high end cars.

Lets compare a C segment salon like the Fiat Linea T-Jet with it's diesel counterpart as well.
kadanaJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2011, 17:53   #64
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ghaziabad/Hyderabad/Mysore
Posts: 1,416
Thanked: 313 Times
Default Re: Zigwheels trying to mislead consumers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kadanaJ View Post
I don't think he really would've saved a lot, his monthly running doesn't really exceed 1000km at best.
...
that's what I was trying to point out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kadanaJ View Post

Also, you can't really say "go ahead and buy a cheaper car if FE is a concern".
For some people cars are a matter of prestige. He wanted a big, spacious cars with lots of features. The Skoda Superb fit the bill.

If fuel efficiency was a primary criteria, everyone would be driving WagonR's or something .

As for savings in fuel costs in the 20 Lakh segment being a major differentiator, I honestly don't know.
I do know that diesel cars in that segment far outsell their petrol counterparts, but I can't speculate what goes through people's minds when choosing petrol or diesel.



That is a question even I would love to have answered, but not just only high end cars.

Lets compare a C segment salon like the Fiat Linea T-Jet with it's diesel counterpart as well.

Well, I bought a Ford Figo TDCi because (1) I needed space, and save for Vista no other car had it, even Vista had a tiny boot - not enough to fit in the pram of my infant along with the weekly shopping bags. (2) Between petrol/diesel on the Figo, I had heard diesel drives better (otherwise I had not intentions of shelling out 1L more on a car that costs 6L on road)

So yes, there are reasons beyond FE for chosing a car.

However here's the thing - Once you are in 15L+ range, unless you are running several 1000km/month there is no saving in fuel costs that will justify diesel over petrol on costs alone - I mean I would consider a guy downright cheap if he buys a Skoda Superb to show off his wealth and then goes for a disel merely to save on a few thousand rupees per month in fuel costs.


Now I haven't had the opportunity (nor did I seek it) to drive a Laura diesel vs. Laura petrol, but I have heard that the diesel is more fun to drive for some people - this may or may not be true for Laura in particular but for a 20L+ car if diesel is more fun to drive then that is a good reason to buy diesel.

Otherwise frankly I personally would laugh in the face of a guy who tells me he bought a diesel Superb to save less money per month in fuel costs than I pay the driver of my father's M800 in salary.

In fact I would extend that reasoning to even a T-Jet. I mean if someone wants the fun factor and hence is willing to spend the $$$ on a T-jet vs. a slightly cheaper sedan, he is a fool if he buys a diesel (more often than not). This is not 2000, we are in 2011 - there are just so many Mercs on the roads that nobody gives a damn about them and somebody thinks he bought a T-Jet so he is better than others !


In particular I would give an example of a cousin of mine - the guy got married to his school sweetheart last year and his father in law "gifted" a Honda City to him. Now the guy works as a supervisor in a Call Center (nothing wrong with that) and makes less than 8L/year - he drives his father's old Esteem on CNG for which he spend hours every month in the queue. And the Honda City is understandably eating dust in front of his house (they don't have enough parking).

The car advertises their stupidity (the father in law could have been easily persuaded to shell out cash for down payment for a flat, and buy a cheaper car) and underscores the fact that they can't afford the fuel - what kind of a status symbol is this?

Last edited by vina : 19th November 2011 at 17:59.
vina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2011, 19:04   #65
BHPian
 
kadanaJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 348
Thanked: 115 Times
Default Re: Zigwheels trying to mislead consumers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post
However here's the thing - Once you are in 15L+ range, unless you are running several 1000km/month there is no saving in fuel costs that will justify diesel over petrol on costs alone - I mean I would consider a guy downright cheap if he buys a Skoda Superb to show off his wealth and then goes for a disel merely to save on a few thousand rupees per month in fuel costs.

Otherwise frankly I personally would laugh in the face of a guy who tells me he bought a diesel Superb to save less money per month in fuel costs than I pay the driver of my father's M800 in salary.
Hahahaha
I completely agree with you!

But the fact is, there are a very large number of people who do buy the diesel for that very reason. To save money.
Call it Indian Mentality 'Penny-Pinching' (who know's what goes through people's minds), but people still buy the diesels because they believe the diesel's will be lighter on the pocket.

If you'd laugh at the people who bought the diesel Superb to save money on fuel, I shudder to think of your reaction towards those who bought BMW 520D's or Audi 2.0 TDI's for the same reasons.

Edit: I look forward to seeing what you'd do to those people.

Last edited by kadanaJ : 19th November 2011 at 19:06.
kadanaJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2011, 19:31   #66
BHPian
 
Skyline GT-R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dubai
Posts: 594
Thanked: 202 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

Fact is that you can buy a more expensive (diesel) car with a minor rise in the EMI over 5 or 6 years of loan tenure.

But the fuel bills have to be paid from the pocket right away or within 45 days (if you use CC)
Skyline GT-R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2011, 20:35   #67
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ghaziabad/Hyderabad/Mysore
Posts: 1,416
Thanked: 313 Times
Default Re: Zigwheels trying to mislead consumers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kadanaJ View Post
Hahahaha
I completely agree with you!

But the fact is, there are a very large number of people who do buy the diesel for that very reason. To save money.
Call it Indian Mentality 'Penny-Pinching' (who know's what goes through people's minds), but people still buy the diesels because they believe the diesel's will be lighter on the pocket.

If you'd laugh at the people who bought the diesel Superb to save money on fuel, I shudder to think of your reaction towards those who bought BMW 520D's or Audi 2.0 TDI's for the same reasons.

Edit: I look forward to seeing what you'd do to those people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline GT-R View Post
Fact is that you can buy a more expensive (diesel) car with a minor rise in the EMI over 5 or 6 years of loan tenure.

But the fuel bills have to be paid from the pocket right away or within 45 days (if you use CC)


Well, I would have thought the guys who do buy a 20L+ car can see that paying gradually is in fact preferable to paying all in advance (opportunity cost of money), especially when the sum paid gradually is actually usually less than what you pay upfront.

The only time diesels make sense irrespective of the per month mileage is when it is a gift (or dowry) car - the guy paying the fuel bills is not the same as the guy paying the price of the car.

Anyway, right now we are quite a bit off topic.


the topic was regarding relaibility, so here a question I asked earlier: how about reliability of turbo-petrols vs. turbo-diesels?
vina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2011, 16:32   #68
BHPian
 
praveenp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 57
Thanked: 8 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

I believe that the article makes sense though not all factors are taken into consideration. The article would have been more realistic if it was written based on the worst-case and best-case scenarios. This means, what if the interest rates are either increased or decreased. The possibility of reducing the interest rate is quite high due to the upcoming 2012 UP elections. Remember the same thing had happened just before 2009 general elections. So considering this factor alone, diesel may look more attractive. But, again the on-road price of the car also plays a big role. If the car is priced between 4 and 6 lakhs, then the breakeven would happen after around 3 years of purchase but if it is priced between 7 and 10 lakhs, the breakeven would happen after 5 years. Hence, before looking at whether diesel or petrol, it makes sense to look at the segment in which your calls falls into. Also, you should factor in the number of years you intend to keep the car. Isn't it?
praveenp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2011, 00:23   #69
Senior - BHPian
 
thoma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kerala
Posts: 1,750
Thanked: 1,073 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

Quote:
Originally Posted by thoma View Post
Why I am giving more importance to the maintenance and running costs is that, it is easy for you to spend money as a one time investment rather than taking money out of your pocket every now and then.

This is where the importance of the thread's title comes into play. Diesel or petrol, which is more reliable? Ultimately reliability translates into maintenance cost, right?
I think I have to go against the tall claims by high mileage diesel owners, on the reliability of the diesels, going by these examples -

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2161144

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2605401

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2075181 (My VW Polo TDI Trendline at 2000 kms.)

A car is as reliable as its weakest components only. Going by the high costs involved in correcting an easily malfunction-able turbo, cylinder head, fuel pump or injector, can we conclude that the diesels are nowhere reliable as claimed?

Or are we still continuing to debate that the diesel car is as reliable as the petrol? I would love to be proved wrong, as I have a fetish riding on the torque of a diesel.

Last edited by thoma : 14th December 2011 at 00:27.
thoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2014, 21:34   #70
BHPian
 
Satshan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 163
Thanked: 172 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

Few of my colleagues have recently purchased Diesel cars. Two simple reasons behind this were:

1. Lesser cost of Diesel.
2. Better mileage than Petrol cars.

However, their running for the whole month is somewhere around 250-300 kms only. They use their cars only during weekend drives and not during everyday use.

From what I have read about Diesel cars so far, these require regular running and should be purchased only if the monthly run is around 800-1000 kms. I understand that the regular running is necessary from cost of ownership point of view (since Diesels car sell at a higher premium).

However my question is, are there any disadvantages from the engine standpoint that if it does not run regularly, will it cause any engine defect/damage in the long run?

Any help from the experts will be appreciated.
Satshan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th May 2014, 19:08   #71
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 776
Thanked: 687 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

@satshan:
  1. Diesels are definitely costlier to maintain in the long run compared to Petrol, though they are much improved these days.
  2. Diesel is a heavy fuel, so u cant leave the car parked for a few weeks if you go out of the country as it tends to settle & thicken
  3. Diesel engines are best maintained with regular & a decent amount of running, less than 15K kms per year running, then not worth it
gsurya is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 28th May 2014, 19:24   #72
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,376
Thanked: 528 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satshan View Post
Few of my colleagues have recently purchased Diesel cars. Two simple reasons behind this were:

1. Lesser cost of Diesel.
2. Better mileage than Petrol cars.

However, their running for the whole month is somewhere around 250-300 kms only. They use their cars only during weekend drives and not during everyday use.
In my view, these are the reasons (why people choose diesel variant even when the usage pattern doesn't demand one)
  • Running costs are low.
  • Many buyers are OK to pay initial high cost of diesel cars and they are even proud that they have bought the most expensive variant of the model
Guna is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 28th May 2014, 21:43   #73
Senior - BHPian
 
ad3952n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Noida (U.P)
Posts: 1,583
Thanked: 1,837 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability

In context of reliability, my point of view may appear to be very ordinary but having owned petrol cars all my life I feel they are better in terms of long-term maintenance as compared to diesel since diesel engines face much more strain than the petrol engines so their condition deteriorates faster as compared to petrol engines.

Secondly, Over the years I have found petrol engines to be far silent than the diesel ones. I am taking into account the Scorpio Diesel of my uncle that he bought in 2006 and my Esteem (comparing only the engines not the segment). Also, earlier their were issues with diesel engines requiring to heat up prior to ignition in winters with use of heaters but the petrol engine never required it and went on smoothly.

On the basis of cost comparison, I feel both type of cars result in equal cost down the line. The logic being that initially the Diesel car is priced higher than the Petrol car but over the years the expense that goes into the fuel (say for 2 years) in a petrol car will ultimately equalize the cost factor.

In case one has to drive for 3k-4k in a month then a diesel car is worth apart from that the petrol car is better. In end I would like to say Diesel engines may lead to cheaper economics but they are a bigger hazard to the environment than the petrol engines because they emit much more fumes and smoke than the petrol engines.

Thanks.
ad3952n is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Petrol versus Diesel Cars jessie007 The Indian Car Scene 431 17th September 2017 20:09
Key decision points for Audi A4 versus Mercedes C220 versus BMW 320D ashishkashyap Luxury, Imports & Niche 40 30th April 2017 19:35
Petrol Versus Diesel: Toyota Corolla Altis druberoi Sedans 26 14th December 2010 08:56
Calculated:Diesel versus Petrol. Baleno /NHC/ Accent Crdi Buffetfan Sedans 23 19th September 2005 18:20


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 16:54.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks