Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 7th March 2012, 22:44   #31
Senior - BHPian
 
IQBAL VEERJI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SAAT BUNGLA, BAMBAI.
Posts: 1,040
Thanked: 282 Times
Default Re: Symptoms of a worn out timing belt?

My Camry V3 has done 43500kms when I went to A.S.S. they say there is no timing belt in my type of car , there is a timing chain in it and it is not to be changed at all. Is it RIGHT or WRONG pls give your reply.
IQBAL VEERJI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2012, 06:58   #32
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: New delhi
Posts: 120
Thanked: 30 Times
Default Re: Symptoms of a worn out timing belt?

A dormant thread, for some time but got some replies lately, thats good. Since, the moment one started the thread , I couldn't get many replies for some time.
Besides the point, anyways, the timing belt replacement job costs are relative to car manufactures. Maruti and Tata timing belt replacement costs may be inexpensive especially when compared to other car manufactures like GM cars or skoda cars. Nothwithstanding other factors like the period of timing belt replacement, whether chain type or rubber timing belt, et cetera.

I believe, chain type are far more durable than rubber based timing belt.But, cannot believe that in a car that has been using rubber based timing belt can be replaced with a chain type.

As far as, my previous car is concerned, which faced this problem--as well enunciated by me during the start of this thread-- my preferred mechanic not only changed the timing belt, but water pump, oil pump and many other things, check #34 of link for my previous car: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...-review-3.html (OPEL ASTRA club, 1.1 lakh km, long review)
ritedhawan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2012, 10:59   #33
BHPian
 
invincible7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Delhi NCR
Posts: 644
Thanked: 131 Times
Default Re: Symptoms of a worn out timing belt?

Ok mine is a 2009 Swift model so its not K2 engine.

The other thing I could check from the Maruti Service Booklet I got with the car, the timing belt needs to be changed at every 1 lakh kms for Swift (G13B) and periodically inspected including the water pump and if there is a wear it should be replaced.
invincible7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2012, 14:59   #34
Zed
BHPian
 
Zed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 467
Thanked: 270 Times
Default Re: Symptoms of a worn out timing belt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
Ok. Here's a question from a technically not sound person.

Can a timing chain be fitted to an engine which originally had a timing belt?
This is strictly a job involving a competent system suppier and OEMs engineering team. Not a retrofit that can be accomplished otherwise

Quote:
Originally Posted by IQBAL VEERJI View Post
My Camry V3 has done 43500kms when I went to A.S.S. they say there is no timing belt in my type of car , there is a timing chain in it and it is not to be changed at all. Is it RIGHT or WRONG pls give your reply.
Most timing chain systems (chain, sprockets, arms\guides & tensioners) are designed for or beyond the operational life of engines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ritedhawan View Post
A dormant thread, for some time but got some replies lately, thats good.

I believe, chain type are far more durable than rubber based timing belt.But, cannot believe that in a car that has been using rubber based timing belt can be replaced with a chain type.
l[/url]
Chain failures are almost unheard of in comparison with belts - one of the key drivers for OEs to decide in favor of chains. Yes - replacing belt with chain is outside the scope of mechanics \ service centres to the best of my knowledge
Zed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2012, 08:45   #35
BHPian
 
e4gleeyez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Navi Mumbai
Posts: 40
Thanked: 22 Times
Default Re: Symptoms of a worn out timing belt?

My Opel Corsa 1.4 has done 63k and approx 7 years old.

Yesterday was an unfortunate day, my timing belt snapped and the car was towed to a nearby garage. Purely my mistake, car is serviced at Nikhil Auto Navi-Mumbai and they reminded to get it changed and I delayed it by a month due to a 20k estimate and the result is catastrophic.

The car was rushed to a local garage where they replaced the belt and bearing. But car started miss-firing as if it is running on 3 cylinders. There is a 'kat-kat' sound coming from a cylinder.

- Any clue on whats the damage?
- Any reliable engine mechanics in and around Navi-Mumbai who can fix the engine like before?
- What should i do, repair and sell or retain the car? (The car is single owner, single hand driven with a very light foot and maintained extremely well till date.)

Mods: Please move my query to the appropriate thread if required
e4gleeyez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2012, 11:09   #36
BHPian
 
nozzlering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: BANGALORE
Posts: 80
Thanked: 29 Times
Default Re: Symptoms of a worn out timing belt?

You are overlooking simple PMS schedule, then how can you say that your car is well maintained!! The job of timing belt is to time the opening and closing of inlet and exhaust valves as per the firing order.
Now, since you mention some sound is coming from one cylinder, it is imperative that you do a complete checkup of engine. It could be a failed valve spindle!
Regarding misfire of a particular unit, the reasons could be
* Broken inlet or outlet valve, causing loss of compression, hence no firing.
* Faulty/ choked fuel injector of the particular unit (incase of diesel engines). I hope yours is a petrol.
It could be a minor thing too. Some one will sure help you out with a good workshop in around Navi Mumbai.
Sell or retain the car? First get it repaired. As no one will buy a car with abnormal sound from engine.
nozzlering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2012, 12:03   #37
BHPian
 
autocrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 668
Thanked: 537 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by e4gleeyez
My Opel Corsa 1.4 has done 63k and approx 7 years old.

Yesterday was an unfortunate day, my timing belt snapped and the car was towed to a nearby garage. Purely my mistake, car is serviced at Nikhil Auto Navi-Mumbai and they reminded to get it changed and I delayed it by a month due to a 20k estimate and the result is catastrophic.

The car was rushed to a local garage where they replaced the belt and bearing. But car started miss-firing as if it is running on 3 cylinders. There is a 'kat-kat' sound coming from a cylinder.

- Any clue on whats the damage?
- Any reliable engine mechanics in and around Navi-Mumbai who can fix the engine like before?
- What should i do, repair and sell or retain the car? (The car is single owner, single hand driven with a very light foot and maintained extremely well till date.)

Mods: Please move my query to the appropriate thread if required
Timing belt is a critical component. When it snaps, the camshafts stop rotating and the valves don't move. However as the pistons continue to work, they will slap against the valves that are still open. There definitely will be some damage. If the valves get pushed up, and the stalk breaks, you are fortunate as the damage is limited. However if the valve breaks and falls into the cylinder, it damages the piston and cylinder lining too. Costly repair. The service center must have assessed the damage before restarting the engine.

Edit: one more possibility is damage to cam profile / camshaft bend. Please get a thorough check up.

Last edited by autocrat : 19th May 2012 at 12:21.
autocrat is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2012, 11:58   #38
Distinguished - BHPian
 
mpksuhas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: KA03/KL11
Posts: 2,716
Thanked: 3,300 Times
Default Re: Symptoms of a worn out timing belt?

20K for timing belt replacement? Or was it along with other jobs (water pump replacement and all). Guess for all Maruti petrols timing belt change interval is 1Lac KM's. However had an experience some 6 yrs back while driving Omni engine power dropped suddenly. Vehicle was behaving as if petrol was empty. Thought may be fuel filter got clogged or something like that. Thankfully was able to drive almost till entrance of Maruti service centre nearby. Vehicle stalled some 50mts from the gate and had to be towed in.
Diagonized the issue as timing belt was worn out in a small area. Due to this thankfully engine was running though not smoothly. Dont remember the exact figure, but guess the bill came around 4K. However the car had did only around 60K KM's. Checked with the SA and as per him timing belt issues this early was not usually reported.

Also, is it possible to check timing belt as a DIY job. If Iam not wrong the only belt which is visible just by opening bonnet is drive belt.
mpksuhas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2012, 12:29   #39
BHPian
 
nozzlering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: BANGALORE
Posts: 80
Thanked: 29 Times
Default Re: Symptoms of a worn out timing belt?

Valve timing is very crucial for proper functioning of an engine. A small error would lead to catastrophe. A timing belt should have
  • Proper tension (not too loose, not too tight. Just optimum)
  • The pulleys should be in a particular position at the time when belt is mounted (to ensure correct timing).
So changing of timing belt should better be left to the professionals, who have knowledge and experience.

Just now noted that mpksuhas meant "check" and not "change". My bad. Well checking a timing belt can be done easily. Here are a few things I can put.
  • Check for the general belt condition. Presence of cracks should sound the alarm bells.
  • The belt should not be too loose. This will lead to early failure of belt.
  • Assuming, belt was last installed properly, so it can't get more tight. Still, I would like to mention that the belt should not be too tight.

Last edited by nozzlering : 21st May 2012 at 12:35.
nozzlering is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2012, 14:21   #40
Distinguished - BHPian
 
mpksuhas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: KA03/KL11
Posts: 2,716
Thanked: 3,300 Times
Default Re: Symptoms of a worn out timing belt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nozzlering View Post
Just now noted that mpksuhas meant "check" and not "change". My bad. Well checking a timing belt can be done easily. Here are a few things I can put.
Thanks for noting down what all to be checked. However, what I was asking was if Iam not wrong timing belt is a covered (not visible, unlike drive belt) component. So is it possible to do the check as a DIY
mpksuhas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2012, 16:38   #41
BHPian
 
nozzlering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: BANGALORE
Posts: 80
Thanked: 29 Times
Default Re: Symptoms of a worn out timing belt?

Yes timing belt is covered. As I said before, the cover should be opened only when you have proper tools and knowhow. It better be left to the service people. Yes, if you know how to check the belt condition, you wont be taken for a ride.
I would like to add one more point to the checklist. When checking the belt, check that all serrations on the belt are intact.

Correct procedure of checking/ changing the timing belt will be given in the maintenance manual of the engine manufacturer (Available only with the company service people).

Last edited by nozzlering : 21st May 2012 at 16:41.
nozzlering is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2013, 00:32   #42
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 109
Thanked: 30 Times
Default Re: Symptoms of a worn out timing belt?

my 2 cents. Timing belt (TB) (if your car is has one, not every car has TB, some cars have Timing chain (TC)) had to be replaced at the manufacturers recommended interval usually mentioned in the owners manual & in service manual. Now to decide on what else to replace along with it again go by manufacturers recommendation in the service manual or leave it to the service experts at dealers Garage or independent garage. Its best to trust them at-least in this case. However here is a quick tip.

1. Water Pump - ONLY if your engine water pump is driven by TB. The reason is if it fails in due course say 25 - 30k kms down the line after you change TB, then it will spoil the TB as well.
2.Tensioner - ONLY if its spring loaded -- the reason is the spring might have become loose over the period of time & it will loose its ability to hold the new TB at max tension. Hence its best to change it at the time of TB change.

Other components like oil pump / oil pump seal, cam seal & crank seal are all changed during this TB service only if they show signs of wear (like oil leaks etc).

Hope this helps.
ravigop is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2013, 05:36   #43
BHPian
 
FlatOut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Yorkshire Dales
Posts: 300
Thanked: 362 Times
Default Re: Symptoms of a worn out timing belt?

Timing belts can fail prematurely if handled badly (for example kinked) before installation. They can also fail prematurely if fitted wrongly (too tight, too slack) or if all the related pulleys and componentry (water pumps, tensioners etc) are not replaced at the same time or if they themselves fail prematurely, for whatever reason, such as frozen coolant.

If there is an oil leak which contaminates the belt, this can cause it to fail prematurely. Additionally, broken belt covers may let in stones or grit which could cause the belt to fail before it is due to be replaced.

The material composition of cambelts has improved over the years, but it is still basically a rubber band transmitting power from one part of the engine to the other and a hugely cynical piece of engineering, started by GM in the 1960s.

Some makes are better than others according to mechanics and fitters, some engines place bigger demands on the belt than others. Sadly, the motor industry has started to replace belts with chains which are equally under-engineered, to maintain failure/profit. Gears are generally most reliable, but I cannot think of any modern motor car with a gear-driven camshaft.

The old-fashioned pushrod driven from a camshaft within the sump or block was the most reliable - but belts were cheaper. It's all about profit, at the consumer's cost.
FlatOut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2013, 07:42   #44
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Coimbatore / MENA
Posts: 673
Thanked: 973 Times
Default Re: Symptoms of a worn out timing belt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlatOut View Post
Gears are generally most reliable, but I cannot think of any modern motor car with a gear-driven camshaft.
Not exactly a Motor car, but the Cummins B Series engines found on Ram Diesel pickups have gear driven cams.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cummins_B_Series_engine

Cheers
gthang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2013, 15:05   #45
BHPian
 
FlatOut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Yorkshire Dales
Posts: 300
Thanked: 362 Times
Default Re: Symptoms of a worn out timing belt?

There are plenty of early Land Rover Discovery TDi engines in the UK with a set of gears driving the camshaft as replacement for the original belt.

One engine I do know of which had a gear driven camshaft was Citroen's diesel engine from the 1970s-1980s, it powered their CX model. It was a little uncultured by modern standards but also a lot tougher and long-lasting. It was originally 2.2 litres but later 2.5, both n/a and turbocharged, in which guise the CX was by far the fastest diesel around at the time - 120mph. However the turbo variants used a belt, although it was a shortish one and not too convoluted.
FlatOut is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
alternator belt damages timing belt??? jalsa777 Technical Stuff 21 8th March 2015 10:52
Timing (cam) belt vs chain sbasak Technical Stuff 33 10th November 2009 16:00
Lancer diesel Timing belt Tensioner - Help! dilipkumar7278 Technical Stuff 6 9th November 2007 15:18
Trouble after timing belt change hamadrayad Technical Stuff 1 6th November 2006 20:05
Changing the Timing Belt .. ?? khaadu75 Technical Stuff 5 5th February 2006 19:38


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 02:28.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks