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Old 31st October 2011, 15:28   #1
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Default The strange Santro issue - switches off after 2kms

Was talking to a mechanic friend (at whose garage I spend my free time, trying to learn stuff) and he was mentioning a strange case with a Santro, that he was currently working on.

Start the car in the morning, it starts at first crank, drive around and within 2kms, it will just switch off. Even if you stay stationary, it will switch off after a few minutes. Now try to start the car, it will take a few cranks before it starts. For the unsuccessful cranks, it looks like no current is getting through. After the car starts, it is now no longer predictable when it will shut off next. Maybe soon or might take some time. Scary because if you are in the middle of an overtaking manouvre and the engine dies.

The owner showed the car at various garages (HASS and non-HASS) - each suggests changing some part of the other, but problem still exists. He has changed the plugs, plug-cable etc. Was asked to change some sensor, but since there is no surety that issue will be fixed with changing this, he has not gone ahead. One HASS even suggested he change the ECM !!!

My mechanic friend also has tried various checks without success. If there was a donor Santro available at his garage, he could have tried changing all the suggested parts. He also checked with other mechanics, but other than suggestions like "try changing this or that", no sure-fire fixes. On a lark, I said I will check tbhp and hence this thread. He was a bit surprised, because his idea was that tbhp is for just discussing cars, not fixing issues in cars.
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Old 31st October 2011, 15:47   #2
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Default Re: The strange Santro issue - switches off after 2kms

Can you remove the petrol pipe going to the fuel rail, add a fuel pressure gauge and see if it can hold 40+ psi, the only way you can do this is to direct the fuel pump and check.
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Old 31st October 2011, 19:33   #3
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Default Re: The strange Santro issue - switches off after 2kms

Rule out coil pack and fuel pump issues, these are the most common issues related to the symptoms you have described. Psycho is also referring to the latter i guess.
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Old 31st October 2011, 20:19   #4
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Default Re: The strange Santro issue - switches off after 2kms

Is the car overheating or knocking before shutting down ? Did you rule out the water pump not functioning ?
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Old 31st October 2011, 21:05   #5
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Default Re: The strange Santro issue - switches off after 2kms

Thanks for the responses, guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho
Can you remove the petrol pipe going to the fuel rail, add a fuel pressure gauge and see if it can hold 40+ psi, the only way you can do this is to direct the fuel pump and check.
Did not understand the part in bold.

@Jaggu, I believ the coil-pack has been ruled out. Not sure about fuel-pump. Will have him check that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum
Is the car overheating or knocking before shutting down ? Did you rule out the water pump not functioning ?
No overheating. Since the engine suddenly dies while driving, there is the shuddering due to being in gear. But no knocking AFAIK. Will check about the water-pump anyway.

Adding here suggestion received from planet_rocker via PM so that all info is at one location.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planet_rocker
What is the condition of:
1. The Throttle Body / Idle Air Control Valve (clean / mucky) - a sticky throttle body will cause similar problem
2. Mass Air Flow sensor - cleaner the better.
3. Earthing of all electricals
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Old 31st October 2011, 21:12   #6
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Default Re: The strange Santro issue - switches off after 2kms

I remember reading about a similar issue. It was an old book I had found in my college library.

A car was suffering a similar issue.
They found some cloth inside the tank. This would get sucked into the fuel pump inlet and block fuel.

With engine off and car left alone, the cloth would float back to the top of the fuel.
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Old 31st October 2011, 21:21   #7
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Default Re: The strange Santro issue - switches off after 2kms

Fuel starvation.
Psychos suggestion +1. Then start tracing back.
Does the santro have a filter in the tank?

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 31st October 2011, 21:47   #8
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Default Re: The strange Santro issue - switches off after 2kms

Same problem in my santro, fuel pump, fuel filter, replaced. fuel line cleaned, fuel tank also cleaned.

Working fine, no problem since the last 8 months.
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Old 1st November 2011, 10:45   #9
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Default Re: The strange Santro issue - switches off after 2kms

Conveyed to him the suggestions on this thread, which mostly seem to point to "fuel-deprivation" as the possible cause. Also told about possibility of cloth in fuel-tank blocking fuel-pump inlet.

He said that he had checked fuel pump/filter. Also, ignition-coil assy and plug-wires were already changed by the owner on suggestion by another garage. Since the owner was not for random changing of parts, my friend asked him to have the car inspected at HASS with the scan-guage connected when the problem happens in the morning.

Thanks once again for all the suggestions. Will update this thread, when the issue is (hopefully) resolved at the HASS.
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Old 1st November 2011, 11:27   #10
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Default Re: The strange Santro issue - switches off after 2kms

Hi,
It could either be the reasons below:

1. Fuel Pump
2. Distributor Cap

How old is this Santro ?, I saw both these problems in my old 800. The pump had to be replaced as no other component was failing. Having it replaced, there was no problem.

Another time, the car would start, but being driven for less than 1 meter, it would stop and then have a hard time starting up. The problem was found out to be a plastic part in the distributor cap that seems to have been broken, as that part oscillates many times a second - routing the high voltage between the points.

Hope this could be of help...
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Old 1st November 2011, 11:32   #11
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Default Re: The strange Santro issue - switches off after 2kms

Well sounds like you have tried everything mechanical. So this is just a suggestion. The santro these days comes with password coded keys. And my mechanic at the HSS told me that a duplicate key no matter how exact a copy will not work in the car to start it (dont know how true this is). We have to use either of the 2 supplied keys always.

My suggestion is to ask the owner whether his santro is a newer model with this feature. If this feature is present in the car then ask the owner whether he is using the keys that came with the car when he first bought it.

If the owner is using the originally supplied key then use both the keys and see if it makes any difference.

It could also be a case of the keys being ok but the password sensor in the lock malfunctioning as well so try to check for that.

I say the above because a 2 yr old santro in our neighbourhood was stolen a few months ago. But the car was found barely 2 kms away abandoned. When the owner got to the car, he found nothing wrong and just started the car and brought it back home. This is just a guess, but we all thought it must be due to the thieves using duplicate keys, so the car shut down after a while due to fuel starvation triggered by the security system.

My santro was also broken into but I have an alarm installed so they ran away when the alarm went off. As a precaution I changed all the locks and it cost me approx Rs 9,500 and took 4 hours. The guys at Hyundai told me the cost was high due to the password mechanism. And I saw them attaching a computing device at the steering column to set the new password in so i guess that the system is not just a gimmick, it must do something.

Do try this and let us know how things go.
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Old 1st November 2011, 11:44   #12
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Default Re: The strange Santro issue - switches off after 2kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
. . . .For the unsuccessful cranks, it looks like no current is getting through. . . . .

Please get the fuel pump relay checked. Had a similar problem with my Esteem few years back. MASS changed the fuel pump but the problem still persisted. Later it was found that that real culprit was a 250/- rupees relay, for which I had already coughed up 9k for the pump unnecessarily.
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Old 1st November 2011, 12:34   #13
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Default Re: The strange Santro issue - switches off after 2kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by amrisharm View Post
Well sounds like you have tried everything mechanical. So this is just a suggestion. The santro these days comes with password coded keys. And my mechanic at the HSS told me that a duplicate key no matter how exact a copy will not work in the car to start it (dont know how true this is). We have to use either of the 2 supplied keys always.
So, you mean something like an Immobilizer. But why let the car be driven for 2kms?

The Immobilizer that most cars have these days don't allow the fuel lines to open at all if the correct key is not inserted.
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Old 1st November 2011, 15:14   #14
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Default Re: The strange Santro issue - switches off after 2kms

Its definitely a fuel supply issue. The simplest way to confirm is to remove the fuel lines to the engine and check.

This is how its done in an IKON, I'm sure there must be a similar way in a Santro.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post2413262
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Old 1st November 2011, 15:33   #15
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Default Re: The strange Santro issue - switches off after 2kms

We had an old 800 which had this issue. The cause was finally traced to the fuel pump which had "overheating problems".
Do this.
Start the car and keep sprinkling cold water on fuel pump. If it does not die, then you have the answer.
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