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Old 29th November 2011, 08:26   #76
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@vina and libranof1987,

I was purely talking about city driving in India where ABS is not required, as I said it may sound radical, but that is my opinion indeed.

As for your comments about gravel roads in India, this is exactly where ABS may not be useful, as it will increase braking distance.

Last edited by Figopian : 29th November 2011 at 08:29.
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Old 29th November 2011, 08:53   #77
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One more entry from me: Follow me home headlights.

A few years back, for one of the cars being sold in India, the TV ad was very prominently advertising this feature.
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Old 29th November 2011, 09:24   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figopian View Post
@vina and libranof1987,

I was purely talking about city driving in India where ABS is not required, as I said it may sound radical, but that is my opinion indeed.

As for your comments about gravel roads in India, this is exactly where ABS may not be useful, as it will increase braking distance.
ABS is a function which prevents locking and it has noting to do with high way or city driving. With ABS you get more control to maneuver the car out in case of a emergency situation. it can happen any where !


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One more entry from me: Follow me home headlights.

A few years back, for one of the cars being sold in India, the TV ad was very prominently advertising this feature.
At time is useful and times not, some time its very help full at night, where the surroundings is not lighted. I would prefer a option to activate or deactivate this function.
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Old 29th November 2011, 10:01   #79
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As for your comments about gravel roads in India, this is exactly where ABS may not be useful, as it will increase braking distance.
I assume you are not experienced ABS in action. While it is a well-documented fact that ABS actually increases the braking distance, one should not forget that the car will retain its maneuverability and you can take evasive action. Ordinary brakes can bring the car to dead-stop slightly better but chances are you will still remain in the collision path and the other vehicle may not be able to stop in time.

In the above scenario, if both vehicles are fitted with ABS both can brake hard and take evasive action at the same time.
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Old 29th November 2011, 10:29   #80
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Let me correct you, ABS increases distances only in snow and loose gravel conditions where the loose surface creates a wedge between tyre and surface reducing friction
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Old 29th November 2011, 10:39   #81
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One more entry from me: Follow me home headlights.

A few years back, for one of the cars being sold in India, the TV ad was very prominently advertising this feature.
I find this a very useful feature, especially in rural areas. Its usefuly to have the lights on for a while when you get back home and there is no power. I have used it nearly half a dozen times, especially during the monsoon when outages are more frequent, gives you enough time to open the door and get an emergency lamp.
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Old 29th November 2011, 10:39   #82
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Someone mentioned parking sensors as unimportant.
I could not disagree more.
I've fitted a simple one, with a screen that gives me a read-out and a voice that tells me the numbers (since my eyes are usually not on the screen whilst reversing). It's made parking the SX4 such a breeze, I wish I'd had it in my previous cars, would have saved me a few scratches and dents.
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Old 29th November 2011, 11:21   #83
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Default Re: Unnecessary OEM equipment in today's cars

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Originally Posted by Figopian View Post
@vina and libranof1987,

I was purely talking about city driving in India where ABS is not required, as I said it may sound radical, but that is my opinion indeed.

As for your comments about gravel roads in India, this is exactly where ABS may not be useful, as it will increase braking distance.
I'm sorry, it may be your opinion, but it is a wrong notion. And this is exactly what several companies like Maruti feed on, when they omit such important safety-features in their cars.

City-driving, highway driving, it dun matter. ABS prevents your car from locking under hard braking, and assures you control over your car, despite the hard-braking, over less-grippy surfaces.

Pretend you're driving in the rain, in the city. You're about to approach a wide sweeping turn. Let's say it's the turn from Lavelle Road into St. Marks Road. You can't see what's ahead of you until you actually get into the road. And then mid-corner, you brake hard because there is this bus parked by the side of the road.

ABS will ensure that you don't skid out of control. It keeps your car planted. In a non-ABS car, if you brake hard over wet roads while turning, for example, you might spiral out of control in a second.

If you think ABS is a fancy gizmo that can be done without, then I'm afraid you're highly mistaken, Sir.
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Old 29th November 2011, 11:41   #84
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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
I'm sorry, it may be your opinion, but it is a wrong notion. And this is exactly what several companies like Maruti feed on, when they omit such important safety-features in their cars.

City-driving, highway driving, it dun matter. ABS prevents your car from locking under hard braking, and assures you control over your car, despite the hard-braking, over less-grippy surfaces.

Pretend you're driving in the rain, in the city. You're about to approach a wide sweeping turn. Let's say it's the turn from Lavelle Road into St. Marks Road. You can't see what's ahead of you until you actually get into the road. And then mid-corner, you brake hard because there is this bus parked by the side of the road.

ABS will ensure that you don't skid out of control. It keeps your car planted. In a non-ABS car, if you brake hard over wet roads while turning, for example, you might spiral out of control in a second.

If you think ABS is a fancy gizmo that can be done without, then I'm afraid you're highly mistaken, Sir.
Obviously, I have not experienced ABS, my opinion was purely based on some discussions around ABS on this very site else where. I agree its a safety feature and may come into action anytime/anywhere, the fact remains that it is not seen helping as much as the manufacturers/authorities would have wanted it to be. This based on some survey done by the US department of road transportation (if I am not wrong). Unfortunately, I am not able to find the thread that mentioned this.

Having said that, you may be right that ABS is a MUST everywhere, it's just that I find it hard to believe
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Old 29th November 2011, 11:46   #85
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Default Re: Unnecessary OEM equipment in today's cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Figopian View Post
@vina and libranof1987,

I was purely talking about city driving in India where ABS is not required, as I said it may sound radical, but that is my opinion indeed.

As for your comments about gravel roads in India, this is exactly where ABS may not be useful, as it will increase braking distance.
The function of ABS is not to decrease driving distance but to ensure the vehicle's maneuverability when traction is reduced.

Under normal braking condition, ABS doesn't necessarily kick in; and even when it does kick in, be it in India or abroad, it doesn't necessarily decrease braking distance. That is just not it's function.

And the effect of ABS can be felt during city driving too.

Last edited by libranof1987 : 29th November 2011 at 12:00. Reason: Typo. Thanks figopian.
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Old 29th November 2011, 11:48   #86
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Default Re: Unnecessary OEM equipment in today's cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Figopian View Post
Obviously, I have not experienced ABS, my opinion was purely based on some discussions around ABS on this very site else where. I agree its a safety feature and may come into action anytime/anywhere, the fact remains that it is not seen helping as much as the manufacturers/authorities would have wanted it to be. This based on some survey done by the US department of road transportation (if I am not wrong). Unfortunately, I am not able to find the thread that mentioned this.

Having said that, you may be right that ABS is a MUST everywhere, it's just that I find it hard to believe


opinion, and you're entitled to it.

You may be looking for this:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...side-down.html (Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down)

We've had an EXTENDED discussion here as to how ABS works, and what to do/not do..
Lets not repeat the whole of that here too.
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Old 29th November 2011, 11:51   #87
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Very sad that safety equipments are being discussed in the unwanted OEM parts in a car thread of an automotive forum. That too when the safety norms, occupant safety, etc are ridiculously low in comparison to developed countries.
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Old 29th November 2011, 11:55   #88
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Default Re: Unnecessary OEM equipment in today's cars

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Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
The function of ABS is not to decrease driving distance but to ensure the vehicle's maneuverability when traction is reduced.

Under normal braking condition, ABS doesn't necessarily kick in; and even when it does kick in, be it in India or abroad, it doesn't necessarily decrease driving distance. That is just not it's function.

And the effect of ABS can be felt during city driving too.
Of course, I know that. Did you mean braking distance by driving distance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post

opinion, and you're entitled to it.

You may be looking for this:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...side-down.html (Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down)

We've had an EXTENDED discussion here as to how ABS works, and what to do/not do..
Lets not repeat the whole of that here too.
Thanks, but not this one, that thread was exclusively dedicated for ABS I think.

And agree with you that everyone here do understand what ABS is for and its importance (except me? ) No need to have ABS related technical discussion here, let's just leave my opinion with me for now

EDIT:
I found the correct thread - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...tml#post152175 (The ABS discussion thread)
Excerpts from the comment -
For all those who think ABS is an essential safety equipment in modern cars and will make a difference, here's a bit of a surprise:

A study, designed, conducted and excellently analysed by U.S. Department of Transport, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration can be downloaded from their website at: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca...inalreport.pdf (Caution: This is a 67-page, 1 MB PDF file. Right-mouse click and Save Target As...)

This white paper states (among other things) "...Numerous crash data statistical analyses conducted over the past few years suggest that, for automobiles, the introduction of four-wheel antilock brake systems (ABS) has produced net safety benefits much lower than originally expected. The studies indicate that the apparent increase in single-vehicle crashes involving passenger cars equipped with four-wheel ABS almost completely offsets the safety advantage such vehicles have over their conventionally-braked counterparts..."

The report also goes on to say that "NHTSA’s Light Vehicle ABS Research Program has only been a first step in assessing the anticipated safety benefits from ABS. This program deals solely with trying to learn why the crash data studies did not find the anticipated increase in safety (i.e., reduction in crashes) for ABS-equipped automobiles. The development of countermeasures to resolve any problems discovered is left to future research..."

Hope this piece of evidence at least will put some end to a seemingly endless debate on these forums...

Last edited by Figopian : 29th November 2011 at 12:06.
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Old 29th November 2011, 12:14   #89
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Default Re: Unnecessary OEM equipment in today's cars

Let me join in too. Whereas all other features can be debated, but I feel ABS should be made mandatory, given the general attitude of Indians towards safety. Just ask Puneites for opposing "Compulsory Helmet Rule" with all sorts of flimsy excuses, & till date not made mandatory due to such illogical opposition. One of the lamest excuses was "It spoils our Gelled Hairs." Though there are n number of cases where Helmet saves life(twice MINE) & lack of it causes Loss of life. Similarly, how many people wear seat belts out of habit & concern for safety?(Excluding Team BHPins of course ) Not only on highways, there are maniacs in cities too, which sometimes force hard braking & ABS proves useful in such cases. Unless made mandatory, few will opt for this & to boot, manufacturers provide these only on top end models, where they throw in all kinds of unwanted/ unnecessary equipment to rob the customer, which sometimes makes one compromise on this feature(Me included). Had to buy POLO trendline TDI as Highline was way over budget. Though Brakes of POLO are quite good, but would have certainly preferred ABS, even as an option. I didn't want any of their other add ons & being robbed of close to Rs. 2L for these.
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Old 29th November 2011, 12:23   #90
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Default Re: Unnecessary OEM equipment in today's cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Figopian View Post
Excerpts from the comment -
For all those who think ABS is an essential safety equipment in modern cars and will make a difference, here's a bit of a surprise:

A study, designed, conducted and excellently analysed by U.S. Department of Transport, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration can be downloaded from their website at: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca...inalreport.pdf (Caution: This is a 67-page, 1 MB PDF file. Right-mouse click and Save Target As...)

This white paper states (among other things) "...Numerous crash data statistical analyses conducted over the past few years suggest that, for automobiles, the introduction of four-wheel antilock brake systems (ABS) has produced net safety benefits much lower than originally expected. The studies indicate that the apparent increase in single-vehicle crashes involving passenger cars equipped with four-wheel ABS almost completely offsets the safety advantage such vehicles have over their conventionally-braked counterparts..."

The report also goes on to say that "NHTSA’s Light Vehicle ABS Research Program has only been a first step in assessing the anticipated safety benefits from ABS. This program deals solely with trying to learn why the crash data studies did not find the anticipated increase in safety (i.e., reduction in crashes) for ABS-equipped automobiles. The development of countermeasures to resolve any problems discovered is left to future research..."

Hope this piece of evidence at least will put some end to a seemingly endless debate on these forums...
This is the most logical conclusion I've drawn from this, after going through it a few times:

- The number of cars on the road are increasing by the minute. More the number of cars, the more chances of an accident happening. It's simple logic.

- The people driving on the road are getting dumber by the day. Driving a car has become ridiculously easy these days, and that only would mean that the person behind the wheel is getting sloppier and shabbier.

-----------------------------------

Sir, if I may,

ABS is not a wonder-drug. It's not Superman that will lift you off the road and put you down to safety. It's merely a driving-aid that helps you have better control over your car in less than perfect conditions. It's engineering.

It's not a miracle, that may be disputed. It doesn't have a set of followers who preach it, while on the other hand another party who despise it.

Now if one chooses to defy the laws of physics and drive like a mad-man, darting into a corner at speeds far beyond the limit of his driving-ability and the car itself, and then brake and hope to stay on the road, praying that ABS will save his life, then I'm sorry that person is heavily mistaken.

The link Mayank put up a few posts earlier, is an illustration to the point that I'm trying to make here. The Captiva capsized (I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself ) because the driver pushed it beyond a limit where only God can save you.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 29th November 2011 at 12:37.
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