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View Poll Results: If you have faced a DSG mechatronics failure, please vote here(Multiple option poll):
My car is a Laura Petrol 1 5.88%
My car is a Laura Diesel 4 23.53%
My car is a Superb Petrol 5 29.41%
My car is a Superb Diesel 3 17.65%
It is a 6-speed DSG 6 35.29%
It is a 7-speed DSG 11 64.71%
The car is mostly chauffeur-driven 6 35.29%
The car is mostly self-driven 9 52.94%
Most of my drive is in crawling / stop-start traffic 6 35.29%
Most of my drive is in free-flowing traffic 4 23.53%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 21st December 2011, 11:34   #16
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

The 7 Speed DSG in Superb 1.8 TSI has a very very high rate of failure in India. I haven't heard of a single 6 speed DSG failure in newer cars(Superb TDI and post facelift Laura), i was talking to an ex-Skoda Service advisor and he also confirmed the same.

Last edited by .anshuman : 21st December 2011 at 11:36.
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Old 21st December 2011, 12:06   #17
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

Having to shift to N at Signals or in stop go traffic is NOT the way to go. The Laura manual does not mention this.

I have faced issues with 6 Speed DSG AT in the Laura diesel PD.

The issues was resolved unconvicingly by: checking the oil level and topping it up to the exact current level and removing and reassembling all the seperable DSG components.

The issue was the car would get locked into a gear and not move and the display would blink all the gear positions. It used to mainly happen when moving into Reverse Gear. The problem started happening 4-5 times a day at it's worse it occured at about 3-3.5 year car age at about 70,000 kms. Has not occured since last 1.5 years after last corrective action. Touch wood.

I had come across a reference that mentioned that this problem could occur if the car is placed in R and the brake released for motion without the car coming into a full forward motion stop. (In short not use it like me do in a manual).

I am at 85000 kms and the DSG box has basically just been serviced but the mechatronic unit has NOT been replaced. (It costs Rs. 150,000 in authorized centre). A component called gear shifter costing Rs. 26,000 was replaced exactly at 2 years within warranty while replacing the turbo and intercooler within warranty.

Oil has still not been fully changed but almost 3L has been added to reach the correct level. The Service centre feels is best to not distrub the AT DSG while it is working right now and is not confident that a full oil change will not revert the car back to problem stage. Currently it is working fine but am avoiding using the Manual gear change mode to not stress it too much.

The oil level check and fill process is quite complex and needs to be done at room temperature in a covered and level area.

The problem first got aggrevated after a flywheel change so don't know is something was disturbed during the flywheel change.

The earlier units seemed to have issues the latest 140 bhp version seems fine. The survey will require more responses to make sense and draw conclusions from.

The DSG is a dream to drive but we are rudly disturbed in out bliss when a problem occurs. The new Passat and Audi Auto Park brake solved the poblem of keeping a leg on the brake at signals but the car does continue to remain in N not D.
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Old 21st December 2011, 12:09   #18
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
The 7 Speed DSG in Superb 1.8 TSI has a very very high rate of failure in India. I haven't heard of a single 6 speed DSG failure in newer cars(Superb TDI and post facelift Laura), i was talking to an ex-Skoda Service advisor and he also confirmed the same.
Bhpian .Carmania had the mechatronic unit in his F/L Laura replaced. Although in his case the DSG box had not packed up completely but had some issues in manual tiptronic mode.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2600067 (My dream machine: Skoda Laura DSG, Ambiente)

I do agree with you that the newer 6 Speed DSGs are far more reliable and looks like the shortcomings of ver 1.0 have been addressed to a large extent.
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Old 21st December 2011, 12:19   #19
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
Bhpian .Carmania had the mechatronic unit in his F/L Laura replaced. Although in his case the DSG box had not packed up completely but had some issues in manual tiptronic mode.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2600067 (My dream machine: Skoda Laura DSG, Ambiente)

I do agree with you that the newer 6 Speed DSGs are far more reliable and looks like the shortcomings of ver 1.0 have been addressed to a large extent.
He says his car had this issue since day one, i'd call it a manufacturing defect.
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Old 21st December 2011, 13:01   #20
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

I was told by a certain gentleman in Skoda that the mechatronics problem has been taken care of in the Superbs manufactured post Oct'10. Though he admitted the mechatronics problem in the earlier superbs, he specifically said that skoda has taken care of this problem in the Superbs which come with the updated software in all the cars manufactured since Oct'10.

I have my doubts on his explanations now!

@SS-Traveller: Could you please ask your friend to check the exact manufacturing date of his Superb?

Last edited by ashish22 : 21st December 2011 at 13:03.
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Old 21st December 2011, 13:03   #21
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
[/list]I fail to see the relevance of this, knowing my driver can drive at the very least as well as I do.
Otherwise either he is in the wrong profession, or I am.
Sam, this isn't an allegation about how badly you or Akbar drives... ... but did someone in Skoda (either the company or the dealer) ever tell you that your mechatronics failure was directly attributable to poor driving habits?
Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
How on earth can you "drive an AT wrong"? A friend and I were debating the same thing and he suggested that perhaps the driver-log put the car into P without coming to a complete halt first. Or slot from D to R when car is still in motion. Or press brake and accelerator with either foot (I've seen this being done ) But does any of these warrant an entire gearbox to FAIL? How delicate *is* the darn thing?
Tanveer brings out the gist of this thread neatly. Someone in Skoda has had an idea about how to explain away the frequency of DSG failures, by blaming the usual technique of keeping the shift in 'D' when the car is stopped for prolonged periods. I have been told this, and as a non-DSG-user, I'd like to verify for the benefit of all concerned how much water such an explanation might hold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Automatics are always kept in D mode in Traffic jams, with foot on the brake. Thats how everybody has been driving automatics forever. So if the DSG box is not designed to handle such use, then it should not be put in cars.
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Old 21st December 2011, 13:28   #22
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Automatics are always kept in D mode in Traffic jams, with foot on the brake. Thats how everybody has been driving automatics forever. So if the DSG box is not designed to handle such use, then it should not be put in cars.
Going by owner's manual, it is OK to keep the brake pressed in D while waiting at an intersection or crawling in traffic but for longer waiting the handbook recommends shifting to N/P. The fuel consumption difference between waiting in N and D is 0.1 litre/hour(going by MFD).

BTW my DSG has completed around 23,000kms in 1 year.
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Old 21st December 2011, 13:34   #23
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Sam, this isn't an allegation about how badly you or Akbar drives... ... but did someone in Skoda (either the company or the dealer) ever tell you that your mechatronics failure was directly attributable to poor driving habits?
lol, I may or not be a good driver, but this is Akbar's profession, not mine. That was what I meant.

Skoda did not attribute the DSG failure to anything. Nor did they offer justification. I spoke to them on the phone for a minute. They simply said, it failed, we're replacing it. That's all I know.

Akbar takes the appointments with the service centre and follows up with the service manager in addition to standing there in the workshop (till they beg him to leave) doing inspections all the time before handing over the cheque.

He chews their brains till they call me to complain so I usually don't bother myself with these things, lol
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Old 21st December 2011, 14:02   #24
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Automatics are always kept in D mode in Traffic jams, with foot on the brake. Thats how everybody has been driving automatics forever.
Do AT cars have a brake sensor that synchronizes the working of the AT transmission for such situtions (D engaged, but brake pressed) ?
It has been a long time since I drove an AT to remember, and I dont have my old owner's manual in reach to check the instructions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Edit: How on earth can you "drive an AT wrong"? A friend and I were debating the same thing and he suggested that perhaps the driver-log put the car into P without coming to a complete halt first. Or slot from D to R when car is still in motion. Or press brake and accelerator with either foot ..
OT:
Man ! I used to think AT's are 'driver-log'-proof. But you have brought out possibilities. Now I'll think twice over - if/when I need to engage a driver for any AT I may have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Sam, this isn't an allegation about how badly you or Akbar drives... ...

SS da .. careful ! Remember how akbar Akbar is ? Hint - Sam recently posted a pic on FB
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Old 21st December 2011, 14:22   #25
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

As Santosh mentioned, please read @.CarMania's thread - it talks about an issue with tiptronic mode and not a generic failure.

Also, noopster has another thread about Vento AT (regulal torque convertor based AT) which failed after sudden braking from 120kmph.

So I see that there are bugs (and all are not specific to DSG) and I am sure they (SKoda/VW/Audi) are working on them.

Automatic gearbox failure has nothing to do with the way the car is driven. And though I own a TSi manual, whenever I checked with the service guys at Skoda regarding DSG problems, they never blamed it on driving style.

There are already individual ownership threads with details on individual DSG failure symptoms (as much as the owner understands and cares to follow up, of course). In fact, I find the briskoda threads more technical than those on team-bhp (I am talking about the ownership threads). These guys surely know a thing or two about cars and they have not mentioned (at least I have not seen yet) any case of pushback from Skoda saying that the driving style is a culprit :-)

Last edited by anandpadhye : 21st December 2011 at 14:29.
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Old 21st December 2011, 15:44   #26
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

MAybe the DSG unit is not tropicalised but then again, why not. And that does not seem to be the reason because these dsg units are failing on all their cars all over, VW, Audi, Skoda, you name it. Your friend should not have a problem getting a replacement as the dsg has a warranty for two years in India (from very recently) vis a vis a 10 year guarantee given all around the world.

I had read somewhere that the problem was solved on newer Skodas but this does not seem to be the case. That article mentioned that some wires running to the DSG unit were getting pinched by the crimping and so that lead to the failure which they have (apparently not) fixed in the more recent cars.

I blame the auto journos and magazines for this. They could at least inform the general public that such a kink dies exist in the armour of the Skoda.
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Old 21st December 2011, 18:00   #27
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
The 'too good for Indians' is a leitmotif which I find alternately amusing and irritating.
+1 to that.

Firstly, there are far harsher driving conditions. Boston, for instance, has a freezing cold winter, a hot summer, bumper to bumper traffic and pothole'd roads.

Second, my funda is simple : If your system cannot cope with Indian driving conditions, DON'T sell it here. If you do offer it in India, make the hell sure it works.

Based on what I've heard first-hand from owners, the failure rate of petrol to diesel DSGs is 8:2. And I'm really, really surprised that Skoda hasn't nailed it yet.
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Old 21st December 2011, 18:31   #28
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

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+1 to that.

Firstly, there are far harsher driving conditions. Boston, for instance, has a freezing cold winter, a hot summer, bumper to bumper traffic and pothole'd roads.

Second, my funda is simple : If your system cannot cope with Indian driving conditions, DON'T sell it here. If you do offer it in India, make the hell sure it works.

Based on what I've heard first-hand from owners, the failure rate of petrol to diesel DSGs is 8:2. And I'm really, really surprised that Skoda hasn't nailed it yet.
One more reason not to buy petrol VW cars!

But what do you do when manual is not an option - Audi?
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Old 21st December 2011, 19:31   #29
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

I am sure VW group knows that DSG has reliability issues - all over the world and not just in India. Their failure rate is much higher than alternate AT versions, but is not so high that they will risk a class action or a recall. They would have stopped selling DSG if they haven't realized the fact that it is very effective when it comes to impressing buyers during test drives. So the ability of DSG to win sales compensates for the suffering of few customers. Sounds evil, but that is how I see it.

As with German cars in general, majority of the people buy DSG cars fully knowing that they are taking a chance.
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Old 21st December 2011, 19:55   #30
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

If i'm not wrong, the same DSG used in Skoda is also used in other VAG cars like the Jetta, Passat etc. right ?

Why is it that only the Skoda cars have reliability issues when it comes to DSG ? I've come across many threads highlighting 'DSG woes' and almost all the time its either the Laura or the Superb (petrol). I'v enot come across a DSG failure on say a Passat or a Jetta
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