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View Poll Results: If you have faced a DSG mechatronics failure, please vote here(Multiple option poll):
My car is a Laura Petrol 1 5.88%
My car is a Laura Diesel 4 23.53%
My car is a Superb Petrol 5 29.41%
My car is a Superb Diesel 3 17.65%
It is a 6-speed DSG 6 35.29%
It is a 7-speed DSG 11 64.71%
The car is mostly chauffeur-driven 6 35.29%
The car is mostly self-driven 9 52.94%
Most of my drive is in crawling / stop-start traffic 6 35.29%
Most of my drive is in free-flowing traffic 4 23.53%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 23rd December 2011, 15:03   #61
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

Spike i don't think the dealer mech's will be competent enough to diagnose or service such a part (mechatronic), so they will just replace the whole unit and say its fixed.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 16:01   #62
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

^^Agree with you Jaggu. In fact, I have seen instances of dealership guys being caught unaware of which lubrication oil to use, location of filler port etc. Mechatronics is a BIG thing for them.

Spike
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Old 23rd December 2011, 16:05   #63
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

A little bit of googled gyan.

The Mechatronic unit comprises of CPU, some sensors, actuators for the clutch and some other doodads. Most failures reported worldwide comes from malfunctioning of the CPU, with symptoms ranging from jerking, wrong shifting, etc, etc. The CPU malfunction caused by either faulty inputs from failed sensors, or flash corruption.

The mechatronic unit was conceived due to the advent of some high temp materials that could withstand the heat and pressure in the gearbox where it is housed.

As with all new technology, some unforeseeable failures of the sensors and other electronics happened, possibly because of standard auto driving habit aggravating a borderline situation.

Could very well be because of poor German electronics quality, given the recent trend. There was a very good explanation given by someone in another thread, I dont recall which, about German tolerance testing procedures as being the culprit.

So, Is DSG doomed? I dont think so, with other manufacturers following suit. Corrective actions have already been taken. And if you think Skoda (VW) is a monster for trying to introduce new technology without proper testing, please recall people died testing ABS and Airbags when they came out as well. So it's not that bad.

So, If I was driving an older generation DSG equipped car, I would take the time to realize that my car is essentially a manual car that is driven by electronic "hands and legs", as Vina had aptly put, and its getting old and tired, so do I really need to have it work in a stop light? I could help the old man by shifting to neutral.

My humble 2 paisa.

Cheers.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 17:08   #64
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

I doubt if this is an Indian phenomenon, or something to do with our driving styles. In many international forums, the failure is attributed to the system’s lack of ability to adapt to warmer climatic conditions.

Here is one such feedback from Singapore: http://www.mycarforum.com/blog/myaut...t-out-for-him/
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Old 23rd December 2011, 17:12   #65
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar View Post
So, all in all Mechatronics have a high chance of failures. Skoda's DSG at that. Why? Because Skoda sells more cars in India, than VW or Audi. Hence, the fact that Skoda DSG's fail.
Exactly!!

Quote:
My question is- If we are driving the DSG's wrong, then whats the proper way to drive it? Am I supposed to shift to N at complete halts, or let the DSG do its thing, while I just press the brake?
You drive the DSG like any other automatic. There is no special way to drive a car with a DSG gearbox so its not us who are doing something wrong here.
Since this is an auto box, most people would let the car be in D and halt with their foot on the brake. Absolutely nothing wrong with the technique, as there is nothing wrong with you popping the lever to N at every halt. Drive the way you feel comfortable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
I second that.
It's a durability issue rather than a design one.
Nope its a design issue.

Please note the only thing that fails is the Mechatronic and not the gearbox. The unit is changed on the same gearbox and all is hunky dory. Its an external box that feeds info to the gearbox on the changing pattern. A Dsg equipped car is a pleasure to drive, till it works. Gearshifts are extremely smooth and fast, faster than a manual and they adapt to the driving style of the person.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 17:24   #66
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Please note the only thing that fails is the Mechatronic and not the gearbox. The unit is changed on the same gearbox and all is hunky dory. Its an external box that feeds info to the gearbox on the changing pattern.
Cool. So the mechanicals are OK?
So what's the expected life of the 2 clutch plates in there?
And can they be replaced when time comes?
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Old 23rd December 2011, 18:49   #67
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
... Skoda is not claiming that one has to care about it. They are not saying that driving conditions or driving styles are the culprit.
Blame it on drivers? - No way.
Vindicate drivers? - Well, who is blaming them anyway?
Discuss reason for DSG failures? - Sure, for that it must be mentioned and understood that DSG different from torque convertors.
It has been brought to my notice very recently that such is the case - that driving conditions and styles are being blamed to an extent for the mechatronics failures. Hence this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Any idea what is failing? There are reports that "It is failing, it is failing" but what exactly is "It" ? Any pics? Also any inputs on the failure rates (B10, L90 etc) ?
The "it" is the mechatronics module - what is failing inside of it is anyone's guess - I would think the mechanics and technicians who service the cars have not the foggiest idea. Failure rates - again, no idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
You drive the DSG like any other automatic. There is no special way to drive a car with a DSG gearbox so its not us who are doing something wrong here.
Since this is an auto box, most people would let the car be in D and halt with their foot on the brake. Absolutely nothing wrong with the technique, as there is nothing wrong with you popping the lever to N at every halt. Drive the way you feel comfortable.
@V-16: With 2 DSG failures in your personal experience, have you been told by Skoda at any point of time that the driving style of keeping the shift in 'D' all the time is wrong (and might have caused the mechatronics failures)?
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Old 23rd December 2011, 18:51   #68
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
Cool. So the mechanicals are OK?
So what's the expected life of the 2 clutch plates in there?
And can they be replaced when time comes?
Yes the Gearbox is almost bulletproof, save the mechatronic. The clutch plates are expensive to change but are available and changeable. The life i would safely at at least 85k kms but im just guessing. I sold mt Laura and it had done in excess of 76k kms. The guy who is using it now has clocked over 125000kms and has not changed the clutch plates as yet.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 21:53   #69
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post
On your comment on Mechatronics in stop and go traffic - mechatronics has to work harder (the "Mechatronics" unit does what your and my knee and hand do - disengage the clutch, shift the gears, rengage the clutch) in stop and go traffic. Most likely this is an endurance failure of the components involved.
And if one keeps shifting between D and N, I think the work would increase. (Logically, wear of the clutches should decrease).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Hi Guys,

Any idea what is failing? There are reports that "It is failing, it is failing" but what exactly is "It" ? Any pics?
Would love to know that! And why it can't be repaired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
It has been brought to my notice very recently that such is the case - that driving conditions and styles are being blamed to an extent for the mechatronics failures. Hence this thread.
This is their unofficial 'explanation'. Have they ever said it officially anywhere.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 23rd December 2011, 22:05   #70
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
This is their unofficial 'explanation'. Have they ever said it officially anywhere.
Maybe this helps. Below is an extract from the link I have included in the post above (DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?). The page is dated Jul 2011. It clearly says that VCS (Volkswagen Centre Singapore) have acknowledged that they are yet to arrive at a permanent solution for this problem.

About a year ago, a number of VW cars fitted with the 7-speed dry clutch DSG experienced stalling problem in Singapore, due to a faulty mechatronics unit. VCS has since made a recall of the affected batch of vehicles and extended the gearbox warranty for two more years or up to 150,000km. Case closed for now but new issues have risen. Many owners of the 7-speed DSG equipped vehicles have experienced vibration when the car is shifting from first gear to second gear. According to owners who posted on VAGSG.com forum, feedback from VCS is that the clutch is the cause of the problem as it is not climatised for warmer climates, and the technicians are still working on a permanent solution. In addition, mechanical noises could be heard at times when the car is accelerating from a complete stop.

Last edited by vb-san : 23rd December 2011 at 22:06. Reason: link edited
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Old 23rd December 2011, 22:14   #71
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
This is their unofficial 'explanation'. Have they ever said it officially anywhere.
That's correct. Nothing in print or on record - but I'd like to hear from somebody who has had that 'unofficial' explanation given to him.
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Old 24th December 2011, 08:00   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO

Based on what I've heard first-hand from owners, the failure rate of petrol to diesel DSGs is 8:2. And I'm really, really surprised that Skoda hasn't nailed it yet.
Based on my admittedly unscientific sampling in my friends circle, the no of petrol DSG Superbs in the market is much more than the number of diesel DSGs (Superb + Laura + Passat), if that is correct, the ratio of failures may not be the same as the difference in the failure rate. The vast majority of Laura's are either TSi or TD manuals, and the Passat never sold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar
So, all in all Mechatronics have a high chance of failures. Skoda's DSG at that. Why? Because Skoda sells more cars in India, than VW or Audi.

My question is- If we are driving the DSG's wrong, then whats the proper way to drive it? Am I supposed to shift to N at complete halts, or let the DSG do its thing, while I just press the brake?
The DSG clearly does NOT shift to neutral when you press the brake - unlike the C Class, the Superb does not have an auto hold feature. So you are riding the clutch if you hold the car on D using brakes at signals. While I am not sure this is a silver bullet which will prevent DSG failures, it does seem a reasonable precaution to take (and also becomes a reflex action after a while).
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Old 24th December 2011, 11:36   #73
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

Here is what Skoda says on how to drive the DSG. Posting these to end speculation and assumptions on driving method.

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The instructions below are common for both DSG and non DSG AT.
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DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?-5.jpg

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Old 24th December 2011, 12:09   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Here is what Skoda says on how to drive the DSG. Posting these to end speculation and assumptions on driving method.
Interesting - they say we don't have to shift to N while stopping for a short while such as at cross roads. Its unclear to me whether that includes the 2-3 minute (or longer) signals that we come across in Bombay, or they are only referring to US style stop signs.
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Old 24th December 2011, 12:36   #75
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Default Re: DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
So you are riding the clutch if you hold the car on D using brakes at signals. While I am not sure this is a silver bullet which will prevent DSG failures, it does seem a reasonable precaution to take (and also becomes a reflex action after a while).
As soon as you press the brake pedal the gearbox automatically engages the clutch, the clutch is only slipping when the brake pedal is partially pressed and the car is slowly inching forward or when you have the handbrake pulled up with car in D mode or if you are trying to hold the car back on an incline using just the accelerator pedal.
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