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Old 23rd December 2011, 10:51   #16
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Default Re: Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?

Well, looks like my query has not been put forth properly. While I do have concerns about time (spent at the workshop) and money (spent from my pocket or through insurance with or w/o NCB) my utmost priority is structural integrity of the part replaced.

While parts like doors or front fenders are removable and repairable, rear quarter panel is different as it is part of the unibody monocoque.

Quote:
The rear quarter panel is not a bolt-on body component—like a door or front fender. It is usually a large, side body section that extends from the side doors back to the rear bumper. It is part of a welded assembly commonly known as the body side aperture. This assembly also includes the framework for the doors and side windows. There is a right side aperture and a left side aperture.



These two assemblies, along with the other components such as the bottom frame, frame rails, engine cradle and roof panel, are welded together to make the unibody. The strength of the unibody depends on the integrity of the steel and the welds. If any part of the unibody is damaged, the strength of the entire assembly can be compromised. Therefore, when a rear quarter panel is damaged, it must be replaced properly in order to maintain the strength of the unibody.

So may be I should get the replacement done even though the local garage thing is tempting. So my suggestion to others who get their rear quarter panel damaged is either use paintless dent repair or just get it replaced.


The access to the rear of this panel involves cutting and welding of structural members apart from denting which is not good for structural integrity
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Old 23rd December 2011, 10:59   #17
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Default Re: Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
The access to the rear of this panel involves cutting and welding of structural members apart from denting which is not good for structural integrity
If the job does concern of the structural integrity, there is no doubt, that the part to be replaced rather than following any other method!

Cheers,
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Old 23rd December 2011, 11:11   #18
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Default Re: Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?

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Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
So it is more between denting and replacement than FASS and local garage. If FASS were to agree for denting I wouldn't even have thought about this. I wonder why they are reluctant to repair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
While parts like doors or front fenders are removable and repairable, rear quarter panel is different as it is part of the unibody monocoque.

.....
Don't let a local garage / FASS cut open the panel for you. Remember, that the rear quarter panel is a welded directly onto the monocoque and no local garage / FASS will be able to match the welding quality and precision as that of the assembly line. Its easier to get denting painting done by pulling out the panel. A friend and team-bhpians Skoda RS had taken a similar blow and we managed to convince the SASS to just pull out the quarter panel and fix it rather than replacing the entire panel.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 11:43   #19
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Default Re: Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?

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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Don't let a local garage / FASS cut open the panel for you. Remember, that the rear quarter panel is a welded directly onto the monocoque and no local garage / FASS will be able to match the welding quality and precision as that of the assembly line. Its easier to get denting painting done by pulling out the panel. A friend and team-bhpians Skoda RS had taken a similar blow and we managed to convince the SASS to just pull out the quarter panel and fix it rather than replacing the entire panel.

I did not quite get you.

Which part of Skoda was damaged? Was it the front fender? If that is the case, I agree it is possible to pull out the fender, but I am not too sure you could pull out the rear quarter panel without disturbing the welding.

The problem with denting is that the rear of the panel is not accessible and a hole has to be cut on the rear side of the shell. So in denting I am cutting the interior of shell and also heat treating the exterior while in replacing it is just the exterior that is being replaced w/o disturbing the interior.

Again, please do not think that I am preferring something. If someone could elaborate on my concerns on strength of the structure, I will be able to act accordingly. Any FEA experts?

Last edited by anilisanil : 23rd December 2011 at 11:45.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 11:57   #20
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Red face Re: Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?

@Anil,

Sorry to hear that your Figo got rear ended.
I would suggest you to seriously think of getting the rear qtr panel replaced from FASS. However good the local garages are, the repair would still be visible and will cause heartburn everytime you look at it. Also the paint quality might not match the factory paint and the discolored look will be visible.

I can tell you this since my friend who has a Figo Tdci had got the repairs to the front bumper and front wheel arches from a local garage (in Thane) is repenting now since the repair look more evident and the paint quality differs in two areas.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 12:06   #21
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Default Re: Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?

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Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
I did not quite get you.

Which part of Skoda was damaged? Was it the front fender? If that is the case, I agree it is possible to pull out the fender, but I am not too sure you could pull out the rear quarter panel without disturbing the welding.
The exact same portion that your car has scratches and dents on. Its the rear quarter panel. A Maruti 800 had overshot a curve on the Panchgani ghat and directly hit the rear wheel thereby dislodging the rear dead axle as well as denting and cutting apart the rear quarter panel.

Quote:
The problem with denting is that the rear of the panel is not accessible and a hole has to be cut on the rear side of the shell. So in denting I am cutting the interior of shell and also heat treating the exterior while in replacing it is just the exterior that is being replaced w/o disturbing the interior.
What a body shop will do is drill a couple of holes on the side panel, weld a few metal sticks on the dented part and pull out the dent by heating it. There could be other ways but this is how its done at least on the running board where the rear part is inaccessible due to design to push out a dent.

Quote:
Again, please do not think that I am preferring something. If someone could elaborate on my concerns on strength of the structure, I will be able to act accordingly. Any FEA experts?
I don't think your structural integrity will be compromised if you get the dent repaired. Its not an uncommon location to fix and has been done by many a people in the past. May I recommend avanti motor works in Wagholi for the job? They are VERY expensive but you will not be able to tell the difference before and after.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 23rd December 2011 at 17:40. Reason: fixing quote
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Old 23rd December 2011, 13:06   #22
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Default Re: Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?

Anil,
I am not sure but your case looks similar to the one shown in the pictures though there is more damage in your case.

Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?-punto_1.jpg
Before

Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?-punto_2.jpg
Strip down

Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?-punto_3.jpg
After

Pics source Tirabolli Levabolli Vicino

Pardon my ignorance but I don't understand why making a hole is needed. Are they repairing the dent from outside the body? To me, it looks like a simple job of stripping down from inside and working out dent from inside. A simple cut in interior shell would be needed even in case of a replacing the exterior shell, right?

I understand that it is a monocoque structure but so also are loads of cars and they are all repaired in same way without needing to replace anything. I think that FASS wants replacement in order to earn some quick bucks.

Last edited by DevilsCry : 23rd December 2011 at 13:08.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 13:23   #23
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Default Re: Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?

As far as my experience with FASS goes, they only try to replace the part, which is far more easy, than repairing.

In case of damage to rear quarter panel, please see the pic below where they cut and remove the part, and replace it.
Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?-ford_figo_04.jpg


This dent is repairable. Please go to a competent body workshop and get it repaired, instead of replacing the part. Now, whatever be it, please do not replace the part from outside. If you opt for replacing, then go to FASS ONLY!. Reason: Aftermarket Ford body panels are outright cheap. For example, the bonnet weighs only half.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 14:57   #24
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Default Re: Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
Now the fix is that, the guy at the FASS is very reluctant on getting it repaired. He strongly proposing to get the part replaced and hence the thread.
Thatís always the way Ford treat these cases. On the positive side, they always do a neat job (from my personal experience). But I will not be surprised if they forward an insurance claim of around 20-30K for this work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anilisanil
High turnaround time as the service center takes at least 7 days for the whole process.
When we had a similar issue on our Ikon, we got the repair done in 2 days. Maybe because ours is a small town and the no. of cars they handle could be much lesser than what you have in your city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
Well, looks like my query has not been put forth properly. While I do have concerns about time (spent at the workshop) and money (spent from my pocket or through insurance with or w/o NCB) my utmost priority is structural integrity of the part replaced.
My suggestion will be to get it done at the ASC. More so because yours is a new car, and can have peace of mind about the structural integrity.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 17:12   #25
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Default Re: Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post
Anil,
I am not sure but your case looks similar to the one shown in the pictures though there is more damage in your case.

Attachment 859829
Before

Attachment 859830
Strip down

Attachment 859831
After

Pics source Tirabolli Levabolli Vicino

Pardon my ignorance but I don't understand why making a hole is needed. Are they repairing the dent from outside the body?
The pics you put are of a two door model and the rear side of the dent is accessible. In my case, the rear side of the dent has no accessible opening and hence has to be cut open from inside.

By inside we mean the rear wheel bulge that you generally get to see in most hatches' boots!
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Old 23rd December 2011, 17:43   #26
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Default Re: Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?

A hole is needed to put something inside the panel from outside to enable stretching the panel back out as it is inaccessable from inside.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 19:56   #27
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Default Re: Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?

Sorry to hear.

Replacements would be ideal as the fit and finish would always be better than entire denting. As it is inaccessible, denting may not be perfect. Applying more paste, grinding have to be pucca to get a good finish.

If the local garages are competent in your place, please go ahead. These tasks are not technology/vehicle specific and hence can be carried out by a competent tinker and painter.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 20:00   #28
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Default Re: Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?

Simply put a replacement willdefinitely give a better finish. You have tobalance this against the loss of the NCB. We tend to forget this parameter.My own cut off may be somewhere in excess of 5-10k before claiming, assuming you are not on a high NCB.
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Old 24th December 2011, 13:00   #29
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Default Re: Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
I am not too sure if I should go ahead with local garage and get the denting done...
Denting is not a problem, except that for the section circled in the picture, it may not be able to reproduce the exact curvature and contour since it is a complex curve. This is an issue in a lot of curvy cars, for e.g. the Swift. If you plan to keep the car for an extended period, get it dented and save some money (and live with a not-so-perfect contour) - if selling the car soon, your buyer will argue that a less-than-perfect bodywork means a lesser price to be paid (the difference may be equal to or more than the extra money you spend for a panel replacement).
Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?-22122011006.jpg

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 24th December 2011 at 13:02.
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Old 24th December 2011, 15:04   #30
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Default Re: Which is better? Denting or replacing the part?

Denting the car is perfectly fine, they can get the shape exactly to the original, and it will preserve the structural stability, rather than cutting and welding the part.

IMHO, go to a recommended local garage, you wont be unhappy. Some times, the FASS makes things appear more complex than they actually are.
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