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Old 20th March 2012, 22:05   #91
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Default Re: How often should we change gear oil?

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^^^So were the cars of that time using only water (with no coolant added)?? And the pressure caps were less reliable? You mentioned missing also, so some cars ran without any pressure valve? Would it not lead to a burst??
Without a cap the water would boil off with a pressure cap of 15 PSI the water will boil at 126 celcius approx. You can imagine the water boiling and spilling everywhere without a cap. Also there would be hotspots due to air bubbles without a cap. Older cars had a pressure cap of 7 PSI and modern cars go up to 16 PSI stock and upto 21 PSI for racing. Also the movement of water will not be constant in the coolant circuit without a pressure cap.
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Old 21st March 2012, 14:21   #92
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Default Re: How often should we change gear oil?

The pressure caps were Ok, no better or worse than the rest of the car. The lack of any coolant meant a lot of corrosion, and also a somewhat lower boiling point.

The local mistry did not have a clue. If you complained of over heating his immediate response was of removing the rubber from the radiator cap. Lo and behold, water will be pressurised and you got a lower indication on the dash. In any case you were expected to top up the radiator every week.
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Old 21st March 2012, 16:10   #93
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Default Re: How often should we change gear oil?

^^^You mean to say those cars used to run with just water and no "coolant"?? Weren't coolants available in India around that time?
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Old 3rd April 2012, 07:47   #94
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Default Re: How often should we change gear oil?

The coolant is nothing but water with additives to make it antirust and increase it BP. I assume it would also have better specific heat.

Has anyone used Shell oils for gearbox/transmission? Any idea where I could buy them in Bangalore because I want to get it changed, I see 40k on the Odo.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 13:10   #95
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Default Re: How often should we change gear oil?

I have used Shell's gear oils many times in my cars. Their gear & differential oil range is called "Spirax" & comes in different grades & API specifications. For the gearbox, you should look at their GL-4 spec oil of the desired viscosity as specified by your car's manufacturer. Usually, it is 75W90 or 80W90.

Good luck!

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Has anyone used Shell oils for gearbox/transmission? Any idea where I could buy them in Bangalore because I want to get it changed, I see 40k on the Odo.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 15:11   #96
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Default Re: How often should we change gear oil?

I remember either a UK or US magazine did a simple test. Took the coolant, immersed a wire into it, and then checked what current the wire blew. What was surprising was water took the highest current before the wire blew. In other words any anti-freeze lowers the heat transfer capacity. As has been correctly pointed out in India (excluding the Himalayan areas) the coolant is just an anti-corrosion agent and water pump lubricant, and not much else.
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Old 4th April 2012, 01:24   #97
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Default Re: How often should we change gear oil?

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Originally Posted by zaks View Post
The coolant is nothing but water with additives to make it antirust and increase it BP. I assume it would also have better specific heat.

Has anyone used Shell oils for gearbox/transmission? Any idea where I could buy them in Bangalore because I want to get it changed, I see 40k on the Odo.
Yes I know that. Thats why I used the inverted commas. But then what does one call it? Calling it anti-freeze in India sounds weird. Anyway, nobody uses that term here. Try going to a shop and asking for anti-freeze. Do we call it an additive then? That does not sound right either. Lubricant? I don't think anybody uses that term either. Not would it be entirely accurate to call it just a lube as it has other functions too, like inhibits corrosion, alters boiling point, etc. The only word workshop guys understand here is "coolant".

So what does one call the thing?

So my question was, wasn't this "thing" available in India in the era of Fiats and Ambassadors, when things used to keep going wrong with the radiator/cooling system?

Last edited by Raccoon : 4th April 2012 at 01:26.
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Old 4th April 2012, 09:54   #98
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Default Re: How often should we change gear oil?

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So my question was, wasn't this "thing" available in India in the era of Fiats and Ambassadors, when things used to keep going wrong with the radiator/cooling system?
As far as I can recollect it was not available. Even expansion bottle was not there. I remember that I had rigged up a DIY expansion bottle in my Fiat, along with a 15PSI radiator cap, and it worked wonders in Delhi summers.
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Old 4th April 2012, 11:41   #99
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Default Re: How often should we change gear oil?

@Raccoon & ARoy; There was some bunch selling a blue fluid as an anti freeze. I put it into my Amby but at the next service the chap just put a pressure line into the radiator and flushed it all out. He thought he was doing me a favour by flushing the radiator. In hindsight the whole thing was a con, since the viscosity of the blue fluid was too low.
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Old 5th April 2012, 21:37   #100
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Default Re: How often should we change gear oil?

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So my question was, wasn't this "thing" available in India in the era of Fiats and Ambassadors, when things used to keep going wrong with the radiator/cooling system?
Even if it was avaialble, due to poor cooling system employed in most of the older cars, one would loose coolant every few months, which would mean more expense. Now, that: is a serious NO-NO in a "kitna deta hai" car using majority.

Apart from the the Anti-Rust properties, I don't think there is any other advantage for the coolant in warmer parts of India.
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Old 5th April 2012, 22:15   #101
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Default Re: How often should we change gear oil?

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Apart from the the Anti-Rust properties, I don't think there is any other advantage for the coolant in warmer parts of India.
The boiling point is higher than water and hence would have more cooling properties.
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Old 8th April 2012, 11:58   #102
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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@Ragul & @blackfire_9; Some people do not like calling Shell Ultra a true synth, since it is produced by Hydro-refining and not synthesis. Legally it is a synth. There is a post (I think by nitrous) on this sometime quite a bit earlier in the thread.
Ok, the Can does say fully synthetic. The Gypsy service manual says 4.2ltrs are required, but I only got 4, hope it wont fall short?

I have another requirement guys - I looked at the 4th service table of Inspection and Maintenance and it seems I need to replace the transmission/transfer and differential oil every 20K kms. A quick read of the wiki mentions GL ratings and it looks like I need GL4 rating for transmission oil and GL5 for differentials.

but
Quote:
API GL-5 oils can be used in limited slip differentials only if they correspond to the requirements of specification MIL-L-2105D or ZF TE-ML-05
Q1: Since I plan to add LSDs soon should I go for a GL4 oil or GL5 with MIL-L-2105D or ZF TE-ML-05? Is that MIL/TE spec available in J.C rd? What brand do you recommend for differential oil? Is there a brand that is specifically reputed to increase the feeling of smoothness and reduced rolling resistance? I don't mind spending extra so if any Synth option better than mineral oils is available let me know.

Q2. What brand would you recommend for Transmission/Transfer oil? Can a suitable gear oil reduce the resistance of the clutch and make it feel more lite requiring a gentler effort? (compared to what is in a Gypsy? Not compared to feather-lite clutch feel of small cars). Synth or Mineral? A transmission is supposedly the entire assembly that sits behind the flywheel and clutch, hence the question.


Q3. While car bible says transmission and gearbox is the same (Car Bibles : The Car Transmission Bible page 1 of 2) - implying that a single oil is required, the Gypsy service manual lists
Quote:
1. Transmission oil - 1.3L
2. Transfer Gearbox oil - 0.8L
3. Differential oil
Front - 2.0L
Rear - 1.5L
Duh! But whats this extra gearbox oil? Is it related to steering or 4wd lever or the regular gears? Again what brand (Synth or Mineral)?

Q4. In the light of answer to Q3, Is the transmission oil in Q2 going to make a difference to clutch feel or is the gearbox oil? (or neither?)

Thanks for your patience with all the noob queries.

Regards
--Rahul

Last edited by Ragul : 8th April 2012 at 12:12.
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Old 10th April 2012, 00:55   #103
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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May be this is a very stupid question. But in your personal opinion, what is the best synthetic gear oil for standard manual transmission MPFI (Petrol) cars? I am asking because my car (Tata Indigo/Petrol) needs a gear oil change. The company recommended grade is Castrol (Extreme Pressure) EP-80. May I pour synthetic gear oil in it? If so, which brand shall I use?
Hey mate, apologies for the delayed response. The first thing you need to check is the API rating for the gear oil that's recommended by Tata. I believe, it would be a GL-4 for the Indigo.

Secondly, EP-80 refers to 80W90 gear oil with EP additives. But there's a catch, you cannot possibly put a GL-5 if Tata recommends to use a GL-4 quite simply because the GL-5 has a much larger content of EP additives, which are essentially corrosive to copper & bronze (in gearboxes) under high temperature or moist conditions.

Lastly, you can use synthetics without any issues. Just keep in mind the grades, can be a 75W90 also.

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Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
I am now facing exactly the same problem. I got my WagonR (F10D) serviced last Saturday (164k on the ODO) and when I saw the bill, I was noted that teh oil was 5W30. When I called my service advisor, I was told that Maruti now recommends Shell 5W30 for all MPFI cars.
Maruti does not recommend the 5W30 for their older engines, only the dealers do
This viscosity grade is recommended only for their K-series engines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragul View Post
Q1: Since I plan to add LSDs soon should I go for a GL4 oil or GL5 with MIL-L-2105D or ZF TE-ML-05? Is that MIL/TE spec available in J.C rd? What brand do you recommend for differential oil? Is there a brand that is specifically reputed to increase the feeling of smoothness and reduced rolling resistance? I don't mind spending extra so if any Synth option better than mineral oils is available let me know.

Hey mate, I would suggest that you use what's recommended by the manual of the vehicle. Also for LSDs, the GL-4 is often sufficient especially when used in a low stress & low load application as in your car.

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 10th April 2012 at 01:20.
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Old 10th April 2012, 14:07   #104
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
Hey mate, I would suggest that you use what's recommended by the manual of the vehicle. Also for LSDs, the GL-4 is often sufficient especially when used in a low stress & low load application as in your car.
Ok I've decided to go for GL-4 only - Gulf synGear EP 75W-90 looks like a good one. Gulf Syngear EP - Transmission Fluid by Gulf Oil

Anyone used this one? How are the results? No noticeable improvement or Great stuff?!!

Unfortunately its not available in 4ltr or 1ltr cans. Now where can I get the original stuff from a large drum? I will need 5 ltr in all I think.

--Ragul

Last edited by Ragul : 10th April 2012 at 14:08.
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Old 10th April 2012, 14:53   #105
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Default Re: How often should we change gear oil?

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Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
^^^You mean to say those cars used to run with just water and no "coolant"?? Weren't coolants available in India around that time?
The answer is 'yes'. All cars my dad and grandpa had used only water in the radiator. This includes the Amby, Fiat 1100 and Standard Herald.

As far as I know, coolant usage started with the M 800. I do remember how horrified I was when my newly-acquired used Maruti 800 showed max reading on the temp guage on my weekend drive. This was in the late 80s, and not many were aware of what a coolant was.

The reason was a leaking radiator, but nobody including me was aware if I could put water in place of coolant. There were no cell phones those days, and it was a Sunday. But luckily one kind sould allowed me to use his landline, and I was double lucky to get a response. I was told water would do as a standby, but to replace with coolant soon after the leak was repaired.

Sorry for going OT. While on this, how come my Ford does not have a radiator cap?
.
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