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Old 4th January 2012, 16:34   #16
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

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If you are replacing the sump, and feel that the Service Centre is charging a lot, you may go to an independent importer and get the sump at a much more reasonable rate, of course it may take time, as sumps are normally an extremely slow moving item.
We are going with the Honda A.S.S aroy to just be on safer side.

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I think you are referring to my i20's underbody damage. I highly recommend your boss to visit Honda A.S.S, get the oil sump replaced and also get the Civic's under body completely checked. When I hit the stone, engine oil and fuel flowed out and thought that the damage is only to the oil sump and fuel tank. But when checked in A.S.S, the damage was much more which you would have seen in my thread.
You got it right guyfrmblr. In fact I am not so much contemplating any more damage. Since the car was moving very slowly (less than 20 kmph) when it hit the stone. The engine guard did not help much since the stone hit in the gap within the engine guard. I am unable to understand that design flaw by such a reputed manufacturer. I mean if I see my Linea engine guard, there is no gap or anything in the engine guard. There is a small lid which can be unscrewed for replacing oil.

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At 2-4k I will rather change the sump.

One temporary fix for leaky sumps.
Take some cotton cloth (sooti dhoti) and a bar of Lifebuoy (other soaps do not work). Pound them together into mulch, and fill the crack. It apparently lasts quite a while.
Just received a quote, 3.5k for the part and 5k for labour. I think that also includes the engine oil. Seems TVS is the OE for honda oil sump.

Last edited by Speed Pujari : 4th January 2012 at 16:35.
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Old 4th January 2012, 19:09   #17
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

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Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
We are going with the Honda A.S.S aroy to just be on safer side.

Just received a quote, 3.5k for the part and 5k for labour. I think that also includes the engine oil. Seems TVS is the OE for honda oil sump.
If TVS is OE, you will get it much cheaper from a reputed spare parts shop. The replacement labour should not be more than 500 at any good workshop. No idea of the cost of oil.
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Old 20th November 2012, 22:47   #18
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
At 2-4k I will rather change the sump.

One temporary fix for leaky sumps.
Take some cotton cloth (sooti dhoti) and a bar of Lifebuoy (other soaps do not work). Pound them together into mulch, and fill the crack. It apparently lasts quite a while.
Hullo Sir, from your profile it seems you are on the faculty of IITK. Did you also study there? I graduated in 1978.
I have been driving a Honda City AT since April 2008. Recently due to a stone hit there was a crack in the sump which was fixed with M Seal by the dealer. He assured me that it was a small crack and it would be alright. Do you have any experience / views on this?
Incidentally he mentioned a figure of Rs 15,000/- as cost of the sump.
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Old 21st November 2012, 12:09   #19
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

AFAIK, Civics have an aluminium sump as OE - and on aluminium, brass brazing doesn't hold well.

I paid 3.5k for a City (Type 3) OE (aluminium) sump in June '12, sourced from a distributor, not from a Honda ASC - so I doubt if an OE Civic sump would cost 3.5k only. Please check and reconfirm if it's OE or not.

Edit: Brazing works excellently on steel sumps. But then steel sumps are also less prone to cracks and holes when they take a hit, as compared to aluminium.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 21st November 2012 at 12:17.
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Old 21st November 2012, 16:35   #20
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

Properly applied "Araldite" (Epoxy resin) is another solution, especially on aluminum parts which can not be brazed.

M-Seal would work, only if applied from the inside, after thoroughly cleaning and degreasing the surface.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 22:07   #21
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

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Properly applied "Araldite" (Epoxy resin) is another solution, especially on aluminum parts which can not be brazed.

M-Seal would work, only if applied from the inside, after thoroughly cleaning and degreasing the surface.
I don't know how exactly M Seal was applied, but the dealer sounded pretty confident. I specially asked him that I was to undertake a 900 km trip in the near future and he said just go ahead. So far I've done 150 km after the M Seal and it's looking pretty good.I went to this dealer for the first time and have been quite happy with the servicing.
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Old 26th November 2012, 16:46   #22
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

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I don't know how exactly M Seal was applied, but the dealer sounded pretty confident. I specially asked him that I was to undertake a 900 km trip in the near future and he said just go ahead. So far I've done 150 km after the M-Seal and it's looking pretty good.I went to this dealer for the first time and have been quite happy with the servicing.
M Seal is pretty inexpensive. I suggest that you keep a small packet of it in your car. Check for leaks regularly. In case the leak opens up again, any road side mechanic can reapply the M-Seal.
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Old 26th November 2012, 17:43   #23
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

Brazing can be quite dependable. As a temporary and quick fix there are other products than M-Seal because M-Seal requires some time for curing. Other reliable products are Belzona and Devcon.
These are termed as cold welding solutions and details can be had from the following links.
http://www.belzona.com/
http://www.devcon.com/resources/news...5A276F7CA&test
Replacement is the ideal option but the above methods can be safely adopted for the intervening period till a new sump is sourced.
Belzona was very effectively used to fill a water jacket leak into valve seat in the cylinder head of a Premier Padmini and it did yeomen service for more than three years.

Last edited by rajeev k : 26th November 2012 at 17:47.
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Old 26th November 2012, 19:59   #24
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

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M Seal is pretty inexpensive. I suggest that you keep a small packet of it in your car. Check for leaks regularly. In case the leak opens up again, any road side mechanic can reapply the M-Seal.
Thank you Sir. Do you have any idea how heat resistant M Seal is?
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Old 29th November 2012, 14:56   #25
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

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Thank you Sir. Do you have any idea how heat resistant M Seal is?
Most sealing products are plastic based (including epoxy resin), hence would be fine till about 100 degrees centigrade. I have used the m-seal "wet" compound on hot water pipes at home, and it has not deteriorated in a couple of years.

here is a high temperature versions
. http://www.ithinkstore.com/pidilite-...pack-of-5.html
. http://www.vicky.in/shopping/pidilit...e-sealant-85-g

That said, sealing cracks with metal (brazing or welding) gives much better life and high temperature resistance. In this case (oil sump), the temperature will rarely go beyond 100 degrees, except under extreme stress.

Last edited by Aroy : 29th November 2012 at 15:05.
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Old 29th November 2012, 16:31   #26
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
Most sealing products are plastic based (including epoxy resin), hence would be fine till about 100 degrees centigrade. I have used the m-seal "wet" compound on hot water pipes at home, and it has not deteriorated in a couple of years.

here is a high temperature versions
. http://www.ithinkstore.com/pidilite-...pack-of-5.html
. http://www.vicky.in/shopping/pidilit...e-sealant-85-g

That said, sealing cracks with metal (brazing or welding) gives much better life and high temperature resistance. In this case (oil sump), the temperature will rarely go beyond 100 degrees, except under extreme stress.
Thank you dada. I'm going to lean heavily on you in times to come.
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Old 8th November 2013, 13:59   #27
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

Our Civic hit one of the half open gutter lids during the monsoon season. The damage was restricted only to the lower part of bumper but it was a pretty deep gash. Many days later, after the monsoons are well gone, our driver goes to get the wheel rotation and alignment done at our FNG only to find out that the Civic was running on ZERO oil. He immediately called me and I asked him to get the oil filled up with whatever brand was available there. The car had been running on Mobil 1 Full synthetic but has now been replaced with regular Castrol.

Now, the problem is there was no oil leak that we know of or even visible where the car is usually parked - be at our home or the office. The Civic hadn't suffered from any engine related problems during or after the monsoon season. No harsh idling, no noises, no roughness - nothing.

Could the gutter lid have damaged the sump along with the bumper? Where did all the oil go?
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