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Old 3rd January 2012, 13:38   #1
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Default Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

My Boss's civic hit a stone at Hassan-Chikamagalur highway which ended up in oil leakage. Upon inspection they found that the oil sump/pan has got a crack and the oil was leaking. Luckily he did not drive the car after hitting stone to avoid seizure.

Upon calling Honda after sales they directed him to advaith in hassan for first-aid. They brazed the pan and car seems to be working fine. He has driven 300+ kms after that and there is no sign of pinhole leakage.

Just wanted to know if this a long lasting fix, or should we change the sump. Also a brief idea about cost etc. would be helpful. Since the incident took place a week without any picture, is it possible to claim insurance?

I searched the forum and saw cars like octy, i20 facing similar issue, but did not come across with such issue with Civic (might not be reported).
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Old 3rd January 2012, 13:49   #2
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

Brazing if carried out properly will last the life time of the sump. As it is a hairline crack, I do not think it will open up, unless struck again at the same spot.

There are a numerous methods of doing a "first aid" repair in case of hair line cracks in non-structural parts if you are inclined to check for the leak and carry out emergency repairs.
- Clean the area leaking and push chewed chewing gum in. This will last 100+ km, by which time you can find repair shops.
- Use a sealant like "M-Seal", preferably the "wet & dry" variety. Effect same as chewing gum.

As long as the Honda A.S.S. repair/replace the parts, insurance claims will be honoured.
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Old 3rd January 2012, 13:52   #3
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
My Boss's civic hit a stone at Hassan-Chikamagalur highway which ended up in oil leakage.
Hi SP,
Brazing is fine for small cracks etc. But for a large whack with a bend in the plate etc would be better that the pan/sump is replaced.
Even in the case of a small crack after a period of time, if the brazing hasn't been done properly, you find oil wickage and later on leakage. So all in all depends on the quality of work and extent of damage.
For peace of mind - and if it's a vehicle that is on constant long trips - it would be advisable to replace it with a new one - easiest option as it is safe and because you are advising your boss !

No idea about the cost of a new one - someone with some 'Civic' sense can advice you.
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Old 3rd January 2012, 13:56   #4
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

Well, the cost of a sump is a lot cheaper than a new engine

If the removed the sump, degreased it, brazed it. You might have a chance. If it was done on the car with oil inside, the bonding may not be that good and you could get minor leaks.

There could be other hairline cracks also.

Your call
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Old 3rd January 2012, 14:01   #5
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

Sump is 2k INR.
Engine? 3-4L INR for a Civic probably

Is this even worth discussing? If I were the owner, I would've gotten a new sump, even if it meant waiting a day or towing the car 50-100km.
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Old 3rd January 2012, 14:16   #6
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
Brazing if carried out properly will last the life time of the sump. As it is a hairline crack, I do not think it will open up, unless struck again at the same spot.

As long as the Honda A.S.S. repair/replace the parts, insurance claims will be honoured.
Aroy, the crack was not a hairline, but was a kind of hole nearly .5 inch wide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guderian View Post
Hi SP,
Brazing is fine for small cracks etc. But for a large whack with a bend in the plate etc would be better that the pan/sump is replaced.
Even in the case of a small crack after a period of time, if the brazing hasn't been done properly, you find oil wickage and later on leakage. So all in all depends on the quality of work and extent of damage.
For peace of mind - and if it's a vehicle that is on constant long trips - it would be advisable to replace it with a new one - easiest option as it is safe and because you are advising your boss !

No idea about the cost of a new one - someone with some 'Civic' sense can advice you.
Thanks Guderian. I think going for a replacement makes more sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
Well, the cost of a sump is a lot cheaper than a new engine

If the removed the sump, degreased it, brazed it. You might have a chance. If it was done on the car with oil inside, the bonding may not be that good and you could get minor leaks.

There could be other hairline cracks also.

Your call
Replacement is the answer ajmat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Sump is 2k INR.
Engine? 3-4L INR for a Civic probably

Is this even worth discussing? If I were the owner, I would've gotten a new sump, even if it meant waiting a day or towing the car 50-100km.
phamilyman, the civic part cost is highly unpredictable and Honda after sales guys here are always behind milking their customers. Having a first hand info is good.

Also, one i20 guy ended up spending 40k for similar problem (he had tank crack also though).

Anyways,thanks for all the answers guys. Replacement is the answer since the car is used for regular long trips.
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Old 3rd January 2012, 14:20   #7
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

Speed Pujari: get in touch with fellow member Dot. He had the same problem on his Civic, a while ago, and IIRC he got the sump replaced too. Dont think the damage (pocketwise and carwise) was much.
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Old 3rd January 2012, 14:22   #8
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
phamilyman, the civic part cost is highly unpredictable and Honda after sales guys here are always behind milking their customers. Having a first hand info is good.

Also, one i20 guy ended up spending 40k for similar problem (he had tank crack also though).
Want a cheaper option? Try the kabadi market of your city and you will be able to get a good sump at less than 30% of the cost. Also, if you have the "right contacts" at the ASC, they can source you a sump from any totalled Civic at approximately the same cost.

Hope this helps.
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Old 3rd January 2012, 14:25   #9
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

You are replacing the oil sump pan. Good. Just for the record, a properly prepared and brazed joint will be stronger than the surrounding metal. If any fresh incident occurs, the chances are that some other point will give way. Not the brazed area.
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Old 3rd January 2012, 14:29   #10
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

Just ask your boss to change the sump and have peace of mind. Brazing may alst long or may not. If your boss gets stuck, middle of nowhere, with a sump leak then he will have a bigger problem and waste more time and money than the current expense he is going to incur on the new Sump.
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Old 3rd January 2012, 14:32   #11
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar View Post
Speed Pujari: get in touch with fellow member Dot. He had the same problem on his Civic, a while ago, and IIRC he got the sump replaced too. Dont think the damage (pocketwise and carwise) was much.
Thanks Swanand. The car is going for the sump replacement this weekend. Since this is the first time and I did not come across any reports on net so I just wanted a fair idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Want a cheaper option? Try the kabadi market of your city and you will be able to get a good sump at less than 30% of the cost. Also, if you have the "right contacts" at the ASC, they can source you a sump from any totalled Civic at approximately the same cost.

Hope this helps.
Hi devdath, the price of sump (high or low) was never an issue. I wanted a fair picture so that he do not end up paying exorbitantly. Honda guys tend to charge for unknown,unseen and unwanted issues if the owner has a typical IT professional type question mark expression on his face and driving an automatic.
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Old 4th January 2012, 10:14   #12
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

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Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
Honda guys tend to charge for unknown,unseen and unwanted issues if the owner has a typical IT professional type question mark expression on his face and driving an automatic.
In Latin :'Caveat emptor' or in English 'Let the buyer beware'.
Being taken for a ride is a universal trend not exclusive to any company or make. Sharp practices are rampant and thanks to TBHP, experiences are shared. Be sure that all car companies monitor this site closely to see where they stand in the real world.

Thanks for the thread.
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Old 4th January 2012, 13:27   #13
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

If you are replacing the sump, and feel that the Service Centre is charging a lot, you may go to an independent importer and get the sump at a much more reasonable rate, of course it may take time, as sumps are normally an extremely slow moving item.
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Old 4th January 2012, 13:34   #14
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
Also, one i20 guy ended up spending 40k for similar problem (he had tank crack also though).
I think you are referring to my i20's underbody damage. I highly recommend your boss to visit Honda A.S.S, get the oil sump replaced and also get the Civic's under body completely checked. When I hit the stone, engine oil and fuel flowed out and thought that the damage is only to the oil sump and fuel tank. But when checked in A.S.S, the damage was much more which you would have seen in my thread.
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Old 4th January 2012, 14:13   #15
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Default Re: Civic Oil Sump crack. How effective is Brazing?

At 2-4k I will rather change the sump.

One temporary fix for leaky sumps.
Take some cotton cloth (sooti dhoti) and a bar of Lifebuoy (other soaps do not work). Pound them together into mulch, and fill the crack. It apparently lasts quite a while.
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