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Old 7th January 2012, 22:57   #16
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Default Re: Ritz VXi Issue - Weird Odor on Redlining

^^^
Don't think there is a 'culprit'.

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Old 8th January 2012, 12:50   #17
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Default Re: Ritz VXi Issue - Weird Odor on Redlining

rodent is def not an issue for me... what i have observed that this happens at times when i go on long drives..... but the smell does not come every time i go for a long drive, although it comes only when i go on long drives.
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Old 10th January 2012, 20:45   #18
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Default Re: Ritz VXi Issue - Weird Odor on Redlining

@All: This is an update! Referred this issue to the Service Engineer at MyCar. Probably a catcon issue. Will be taking my Ritz for a change of the catcon under warranty.

Shall keep you guys updated on further developments.
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Old 14th February 2012, 22:09   #19
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Default Re: Ritz VXi Issue - Weird Odor on Redlining

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Originally Posted by roadrunner_nv View Post
@All: This is an update! Referred this issue to the Service Engineer at MyCar. Probably a catcon issue. Will be taking my Ritz for a change of the catcon under warranty.

Shall keep you guys updated on further developments.
Any update on this, did you get the catcon replaced ? My service is due in the next months, so waiting for your update
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Old 25th February 2012, 09:52   #20
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Default Re: Ritz VXi Issue - Weird Odor on Redlining

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Originally Posted by changaez View Post
Any update on this, did you get the catcon replaced ? My service is due in the next months, so waiting for your update
Extremely sorry for the late reply...was caught up with lots of work!

Update: Went to the Maruti Service and returned sorely disappointed. The so called service engineer could not smell the fumes due to a blocked nose; so he calls his supervisor who takes another off for another test drive. He returns and says that there is no smell. Then his works manager takes off and this time, I accompany him. Since I know how this smell actually comes up, I rip the car to redline and sure enough, the smell creeps in (a new point to note that the smell is not as strong as before).

This time, the works manager thankfully can smell the fumes so he gets out of the car and inspects the engine bay and tries to smell something there. Nothing in the engine bay; that is when I ask him to come to the rear of the car and smell the exhaust because that is exactly similar to the smell inside. He does that and offers the following pathetic explanation:

Works Manager(WM): "this is because of adulterated fuel. you must be filling in some sub standard fuel"
Me: Not at all, I tank up at Shell exclusively..In fact, I have all the fuel bills from day one.
WM: actually what happens is that sometimes unburnt fuel gets in the catcon and burns there (). this causes the platinum(another shock for me) inside to burn and this causes that smell. this will not happen in regular city driving but only when you drive so fast.
Me: But then, none of the other Ritzs or the other petrol cars have this smell.
WM: they might not be driving fast.

this is all I could do.

They take my car for service, put it on a lift and show me that there are no leakages to the exhaust system.

My car arrives a good three hours late from the service. A good part of this service is that the low end response of the engine seems to be miles better and she rushes past 100 in no time now. The fuel economy seems to have improved. Did not get the time to drive much after that. Shall post an update after my trip to Mumbai next week.

Net Result: Nothing
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Old 26th February 2012, 07:04   #21
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Default Re: Ritz VXi Issue - Weird Odor on Redlining

^^^
Hi,
How many Kms has your car run?

To repeat, I don't think there is anything out of the ordinary.

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Sutripta
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Old 26th February 2012, 11:37   #22
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Default Re: Ritz VXi Issue - Weird Odor on Redlining

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
^^^
Hi,
How many Kms has your car run?

To repeat, I don't think there is anything out of the ordinary.

Regards
Sutripta
Hi Sutripta, my car has run for approx. 3K kilometers. Not much since I have two more cars in my garage that run most of the time.

Do you have any input on this?
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Old 26th February 2012, 13:28   #23
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Default Re: Ritz VXi Issue - Weird Odor on Redlining

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_nv View Post
...weird odor creeping in whenever I redline...
Common occurrence in lot of catcon equipped petrols. Can happen either when you accelerate sharply, or suddenly get off the gas to brake from high revs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
The smell of the catalytic converter does not come out of the exhaust.
If it didn't, where would it come out of? In any case, it takes very little (less than 0.01 ppm [part per million]) for you to smell it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustCause View Post
...a dead rodent in the exhaust...
...or roadrunner's friends celebrated the previous night by throwing rotten eggs at each other in the car!
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_nv View Post
Works Manager(WM): "this is because of adulterated fuel. you must be filling in some sub standard fuel"
Possible... Fouled plugs due to bad fuel reduces burn efficiency, leaving some of the fuel unburnt. Unburnt fuel goes to catcon => H2S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_nv View Post
WM: actually what happens is that sometimes unburnt fuel gets in the catcon and burns there...
Me: But then, none of the other Ritzs or the other petrol cars have this smell.
WM: they might not be driving fast.
When you step on the A-pedal, you dump some extra raw petrol into the cylinders, and not all of it burns; the remainder which is unburnt, ends up giving a burst of hydrogen sulfide when it reaches the catcon, and you smell H2S for a bit. When you let off the A-pedal, the engine overuns, which means raw petrol stays in the intake for a few moments after you let off the pedal (before the ECU can cut off the fuel supply). This could also happen because of an EGR malfunction (unburnt petrol does not get recycled into the inlet for complete burnoff).

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
How many Kms has your car run?
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_nv View Post
...my car has run for approx. 3K kilometers.
Very relevant. New catcons make H2S more efficiently. Old catcons are fouled up over a period of time (generally due to poor fuel quality), and don't produce that smell with very small amounts of unburnt fuel.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 26th February 2012 at 13:35.
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Old 26th February 2012, 19:35   #24
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Default Re: Ritz VXi Issue - Weird Odor on Redlining

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_nv View Post
Hi Sutripta, my car has run for approx. 3K kilometers. Not much since I have two more cars in my garage that run most of the time.

Do you have any input on this?
Answered by

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Common occurrence in lot of catcon equipped petrols. Can happen either when you accelerate sharply, or suddenly get off the gas to brake from high revs.
.....
Very relevant. New catcons make H2S more efficiently. Old catcons are fouled up over a period of time (generally due to poor fuel quality), and don't produce that smell with very small amounts of unburnt fuel.
H2S production is normal. You are lucky that MASS did not remove your new catcon and replace it with an old one!

A detailed technical discussion as to why is not really relevant here. H2S will be produced. However, as I have said before, the fact that you can smell H2S inside a moving car needs to be checked.

One unlikely, but also very easy to check out item: check your air filter.

OT. Unlike others, I don't think there is any harm in redlining an engine, but I don't do it for the first tankful. What about you? And why the Ritz over the Swift?

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 26th February 2012, 20:06   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta
Answered by

H2S production is normal. You are lucky that MASS did not remove your new catcon and replace it with an old one!

A detailed technical discussion as to why is not really relevant here. H2S will be produced. However, as I have said before, the fact that you can smell H2S inside a moving car needs to be checked.

One unlikely, but also very easy to check out item: check your air filter.

OT. Unlike others, I don't think there is any harm in redlining an engine, but I don't do it for the first tankful. What about you? And why the Ritz over the Swift?

Regards
Sutripta
Hi,

The air filter is fine and I did not see any defect there.

I started redlining after a careful first 1200 km. The fuel in all my vehicles comes from Shell; even if it costs a bit more, it is still worth it.

I have a Ritz Diesel and am extremely happy with its ergonomics and to be honest, I love the way it looks. While deciding between the swift, dzire and Ritz, the Ritz became the natural choice for the aforementioned reasons.

An update: the smell seems to have lessened/disappeared after the service. Seems like my car was running rich. Will still comment on this once Im back from my Mumbai trip.

Thank you any which way for the analysis.
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Old 26th February 2012, 20:59   #26
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Default Re: Ritz VXi Issue - Weird Odor on Redlining

^^^
With usage, (=reduced catcon efficacy), the smell will reduce and then go.

Until and unless there is an explicit fault (except for checking the air cleaner), I don't think service can do anything about A/F ratio. Only thing left then is an occasional misfire.

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Old 26th February 2012, 21:07   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta
^^^
With usage, (=reduced catcon efficacy), the smell will reduce and then go.

Until and unless there is an explicit fault (except for checking the air cleaner), I don't think service can do anything about A/F ratio. Only thing left then is an occasional misfire.

Regards
Sutripta
Im am yet to hear any misfire but for sure the engine sounds and performs better after the service. The economy seems to better too. Shall update this thread once Im back from Mumbai
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Old 26th February 2012, 22:14   #28
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Default Re: Ritz VXi Issue - Weird Odor on Redlining

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post

If it didn't, where would it come out of? In any case, it takes very little (less than 0.01 ppm [part per million]) for you to smell it.
Yes, that exactly is the answer - .01ppm can be smelt from the exhaust linkages under the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_nv View Post
A good part of this service is that the low end response of the engine seems to be miles better and she rushes past 100 in no time now. The fuel economy seems to have improved. Did not get the time to drive much after that.
Ironically, the “weird odour” is a sign that your cat is working properly. As mentioned earlier its hydrogen sulfide which does come indirectly from the fuel. The fuel contains organic sulfur compounds ranging from 30 to 100 parts per million, approximately. As the fuel burns, the organic sulfur compounds break down into simpler compounds. If the engine is running lean (more air than fuel), the sulfur is likely to be sulfur dioxide. The catalytic converter can change this into sulfur trioxide, which then reacts with the cat to form sulfates on it. There will gradually be a build up of sulfates. If the engine suddenly starts to run rich (not enough air to burn all the fuel), such as when you brake at a red light, climb a steep hill, or brake hard to slow down, there is unburnt fuel which reaches the cat and reacts with the sulfates. The sulfate reaction with the unburnt fuel starts forming hydrogen sulfide. This is the reason for the bad smell. This happens with new vehicles because the catalyst is working very well. However, as the car and the cat gets older, the efficiency drops and there will be no smell. This smell does not form in all new cars - one reason might be that the vehicle doesn't run lean for much time - no redlining .
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Old 27th February 2012, 00:56   #29
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Default Re: Ritz VXi Issue - Weird Odor on Redlining

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
Yes, that exactly is the answer - .01ppm can be smelt from the exhaust linkages under the car.



Ironically, the “weird odour” is a sign that your cat is working properly. As mentioned earlier its hydrogen sulfide which does come indirectly from the fuel. The fuel contains organic sulfur compounds ranging from 30 to 100 parts per million, approximately. As the fuel burns, the organic sulfur compounds break down into simpler compounds. If the engine is running lean (more air than fuel), the sulfur is likely to be sulfur dioxide. The catalytic converter can change this into sulfur trioxide, which then reacts with the cat to form sulfates on it. There will gradually be a build up of sulfates. If the engine suddenly starts to run rich (not enough air to burn all the fuel), such as when you brake at a red light, climb a steep hill, or brake hard to slow down, there is unburnt fuel which reaches the cat and reacts with the sulfates. The sulfate reaction with the unburnt fuel starts forming hydrogen sulfide. This is the reason for the bad smell. This happens with new vehicles because the catalyst is working very well. However, as the car and the cat gets older, the efficiency drops and there will be no smell. This smell does not form in all new cars - one reason might be that the vehicle doesn't run lean for much time - no redlining .
Thank you for the detailed explanation. As I said earlier, the smell seems to have lessened/disappeared. Just came back from a brief + fast drive and the smell was not noticeable.

Your explanation chimes very well with an incident in my memory. A Chevy Beat that I was driving a short while back at Lavasa exhibited similar smell just before we reached the top. Seems like your explanation fits the missing piece in the jigsaw

Thanks again!!
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Old 27th February 2012, 09:26   #30
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Default Re: Ritz VXi Issue - Weird Odor on Redlining

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_nv View Post
...the smell seems to have lessened/disappeared after the service. Seems like my car was running rich.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
^^^
With usage, (=reduced catcon efficacy), the smell will reduce and then go.
The service centres have this quick fix solution of running the pressurized water hose into the exhaust (apparently to flush out carbon / deposits). Tap water is an excellent means to foul up the active catcon surfaces, but it also ensures that no more rotten smell emanates from your car.
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