Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14th January 2012, 11:48   #31
Senior - BHPian
 
AbhiJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 1,298
Thanked: 462 Times
Default Re: Swift Diesel moving ahead in Neutral Gear

Isnt the best way to check this is to simply put the car on a lift with the engine on?

If the front wheels turn, we definately have a problem. If they dont, we dont?
AbhiJ is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2012, 21:51   #32
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 3,506
Thanked: 2,071 Times
Default Re: Car moving ahead in Neutral Gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
Could a 'sticky' bearing on the output shaft be causing this ?
Possible. But there should be enough auditory warnings!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thoma View Post
Because, a Mazda forum has the view that if the transmission oil is too viscous or full, it tends to act as a torque converter - Car moves forward in Neutral - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum
Viscous drag in the GB (in this case acting as a viscous coupling) should be quite incapable of moving a stationary car. Might move an unconnected output shaft. And no torque conversion without a torque converter!

Regards
Sutripta
Sutripta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2012, 22:05   #33
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Chennai
Posts: 818
Thanked: 1,647 Times
Default Re: Swift Diesel moving ahead in Neutral Gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
Hello Guys!

Even though the car is in Neutral it is moving forward. Is this an issue with the transmission??

Thank You!
Yes, from what you have said, it looks like the clutch will have to be replaced. The reason that it moves is because of the worn clutch.
VeyronSuperSprt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2012, 22:11   #34
Distinguished - BHPian
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bangalore / TVM
Posts: 8,947
Thanked: 16,652 Times
Default Re: Car moving ahead in Neutral Gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by thoma View Post
Is this particular issue a first on Team-BHP? Does the issue vanish after the car has been driven a while? Because, a Mazda forum has the view that if the transmission oil is too viscous or full, it tends to act as a torque converter - Car moves forward in Neutral - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum

Wonder how this transmission passed the quality tests by Maruti. Or, do they really not test the product after they assemble? Is that all we are getting these days? Should others thank their stars not to have any issues by chance? Is there no way that manufacturers and dealers are given a run for the money we plonk on them? First of all, downing the transmission or opening the engine head of a brand new car is not a good indication of standards. Secondly, once this is done, I doubt whether we will get a factory fit and seal when our dealers are notorious for messing with other simpler issues.
Even if the issue is with the transmission, how can it still roll ahead with the clutch disengaged (No drive to transmission too).

Must say I'm thoroughly confused!
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2012, 02:41   #35
BHPian
 
Morph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 39
Thanked: 21 Times
Default Re: Swift Diesel moving ahead in Neutral Gear

If the gearbox is a manual and in Neutral there is no physical connection between the flywheel and the output shafts - the input and output ends of the gearbox are disconnected. If the geabox oil is thick and/or very cold there could be a fluid transfer effect between the input and output side when the clutch is released (i.e. when the pedal is released). If the pedal is pressed the clutch disengages and the input side of the gearbox will eventually stop spinning.

The effect will be very slight. The dealer could swap the gearbox oil with a lighter grade if it is a serious problem.

The handbrake should always be on when parked, obviously
Morph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2012, 07:56   #36
KPS
Distinguished - BHPian
 
KPS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,003
Thanked: 4,556 Times
Default Re: Swift Diesel moving ahead in Neutral Gear

Oil being a torque converter was indeed a technology as early as 1947 was used before the auto tranny came into being.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...ml#post2547798

Guess with the Swift, it is a gear box problem and not fluid drive technology

Cheers
KPS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2012, 10:37   #37
BHPian
 
Racer_X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Pune
Posts: 268
Thanked: 114 Times
Default Re: Swift Diesel moving ahead in Neutral Gear

The clutch plate has been replaced and the transmission fluid has also been changed. The bearing on the output shaft has also been replaced under warranty. The car according to my cousin is now fine. But the A** has not been able to give a logical answer to the problem.
Racer_X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2012, 11:24   #38
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Chennai
Posts: 818
Thanked: 1,647 Times
Default Re: Swift Diesel moving ahead in Neutral Gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
But the A** has not been able to give a logical answer to the problem.
The reason for the car moving forward in neutral is because the clutch does not disengage fully as it is worn out. It also happens on account of the higher viscosity of the transmission fluid but that is more in cold climates.
VeyronSuperSprt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2012, 12:52   #39
Senior - BHPian
 
coolboy007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,717
Thanked: 1,440 Times
Default Re: Swift Diesel moving ahead in Neutral Gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
The reason for the car moving forward in neutral is because the clutch does not disengage fully as it is worn out. It also happens on account of the higher viscosity of the transmission fluid but that is more in cold climates.
I can agree with the transmission oil being viscous and cold climate but worn out clutch on a brand new car , i see no reason for it until the car was abused for test drives or personal fun or then maybe a quality check fault.


@Racer_X
You should have asked service centre and MUL for an explanation, clutch worn out on a brand new car is not good until it was a quality check fault, did your friend do PDI before getting the car?
coolboy007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2012, 13:32   #40
BHPian
 
Racer_X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Pune
Posts: 268
Thanked: 114 Times
Default Re: Swift Diesel moving ahead in Neutral Gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolboy007 View Post
I can agree with the transmission oil being viscous and cold climate but worn out clutch on a brand new car , i see no reason for it until the car was abused for test drives or personal fun or then maybe a quality check fault.


@Racer_X
You should have asked service centre and MUL for an explanation, clutch worn out on a brand new car is not good until it was a quality check fault, did your friend do PDI before getting the car?
Unfortunately my cousin has not been introduced to Team BHP and did not consult me before his purchase. I think it is a quality check fault, its just that things have been worked out under warranty and nothing has been charged. I have asked him to give me the dealers name so that something could be done.
Racer_X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2012, 16:41   #41
Senior - BHPian
 
mayankjha1806's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: BLR/Gurgaon
Posts: 2,133
Thanked: 820 Times
Default Re: Swift Diesel moving ahead in Neutral Gear

This is a serious problem, is he sure he has not been handed a car with was used earlier for some other purpose. Clutch plate wearing out so soon is either a manufacturing fault (Which should be caught in PDI) or he has been handed over a problematic car. Do push the dealer for explanation and if needed escalate the matters to MSIL. Hope everything now works out well for him. Do post the dealer name here as well.

Did he do a VIN decoding (Can we do that on a Maruti car?)
mayankjha1806 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2012, 20:14   #42
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: KL41-MH14
Posts: 79
Thanked: 18 Times
Default Re: Swift Diesel moving ahead in Neutral Gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by livyodream View Post
Jack up the vehicle and check if the front tyres move on neutral.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_X View Post
Unfortunately my cousin has not been introduced to Team BHP and did not consult me before his purchase. I think it is a quality check fault, its just that things have been worked out under warranty and nothing has been charged. I have asked him to give me the dealers name so that something could be done.
Please confirm with your cousin if the car was moving ahead earlier in the following conditions
1) gear in neutral, clutch pedal not pressed
2) gear in neutral, clutch pedal pressed
3) First gear, clutch pedal pressed

I cannot imagine a malfunction where all three happens. only worn clutch + some weird issue like GB acting like torque converter due to oil viscosity can explain this on a rather new car.

Its normal for tyres to rotate slowly when jacked up in neutral gear with clutch not pressed (). seen cars on a.s.s premises displaying this but nobody is alarmed, but this should not be strong enough to move the car (SA said its normal).
Joe-Ker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2012, 19:35   #43
BHPian
 
Morph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 39
Thanked: 21 Times
Default Re: Swift Diesel moving ahead in Neutral Gear

This is still a mystery to me.

A worn clutch will either not disengage properly so that gears cannot be selected, or it will slip when in gear - the engine revs will rise but the car will not gain speed.

Unless thar car is in gear the input and output shafts are not connected in any way. The clutch can be brand new or totally worn out - there is no physical metal on metal, or gear meshing with gear connection between them.

So replacing the clutch shouldn't make a difference ? Or is there something else on a Swift I'm missing ?
Morph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2012, 17:48   #44
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,101
Thanked: 1,492 Times
Default Re: Swift Diesel moving ahead in Neutral Gear

I have noticed similar in my Beat diesel too. Doesn't happen every time, but two times when I was stopped with engine shut off, no movement/no brakes required. When I started the engine, car very slowly started moving forwards! Couldn't replicate it at will though. Wonder what could be the reason.
ani_meher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2012, 23:19   #45
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: KL41-MH14
Posts: 79
Thanked: 18 Times
Default Re: Swift Diesel moving ahead in Neutral Gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_meher View Post
I have noticed similar in my Beat diesel too. Doesn't happen every time, but two times when I was stopped with engine shut off, no movement/no brakes required. When I started the engine, car very slowly started moving forwards! Couldn't replicate it at will though. Wonder what could be the reason.
Could have been a very slight gradient, the vibrations of the engine might have started the car rolling. Eliminate this possibility before getting alarmed.
Joe-Ker is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Switch off / Park in first gear or neutral? devnull Technical Stuff 49 18th December 2015 16:57
Scorpio MHawk-5th Gear Slips to Neutral akshay4587 Technical Stuff 15 16th December 2011 00:02
Santro gear shifts suddenly into neutral nura Technical Stuff 18 11th August 2008 14:21
Gear slipping to neutral? - Wagon R johy Technical Stuff 32 25th March 2008 19:01
Re: Gear "jumping" to neutral??? johy Technical Stuff 9 9th November 2006 21:45


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 00:15.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks