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Old 11th January 2012, 20:47   #16
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Default re: Common 'Features' in cars that we need to 'live with'

My thoughts in bold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbokick View Post
1. I guess to protect the direct sun rays hitting the cabin and hence to keep the inside temperature under control. Alto/800 obviously don't have this to cut cost.
I don't think a manufacturer would keep smaller windows with less visibilty just to keep the cabin temperature under control.

2. Cabin light on the dashboard ? How will it serve the purpose ? Or you meant the switch to be placed on dash?
Just a change in position so that the cabin light doesn't 'prick' the driver's eye.
BTW one is supposed to switch on the cabin light while driving. Atleast the driver shouldn't be doing this while driving.
I agree.

3. Its more like split AC v/s window AC. Window AC cools quicker and split AC more uniformly.
With the compressor-blower placed right behind the dash,cooling via dashboard vents will be quicker.
Good point.
Much needed thing when you keep your car under sun. Head room can be an issue too. Roof mounted AC is available in SUVs only where headroom is good
Vents can also be placed on the top of B-pillar?

4. Rear discs ? Any braking related issues ? Most cars do a satisfactory job with the kind of brakes (rear drum) they are provided with. Else cost would shoot up. Agreed few cars need rear discs as complusion. I would rather want ABS as option with every model.
But ABS also works better with disc brakes?

5. ORVM (both at a time) give this idea of total traffic behind. Inside plain mirror gives the idea of approximate distance between the vehicles.
Both view and distance are important. So both serve different purpose.
Then we can have a long plain mirror that curves at the sides for all round visibilty?

6. What is automatic headlight dimmer ?
A control unit that automatically dips the headlight on sensing on-coming traffic.

7. There is a basic principle behind signal capture and modulation. Even the DTH antenna looks odd on the top of our house
Wipers being used as antenna? And when it rains?
Ordinary antenna also has bad reception during rains, right?

8. I think CR-V has a similar arrangement. Gearbox+handbrake+seatbelt lock+glovebox : Congested. Isn't it ?
Ok, but can we still expect some 'design breakthrough?'
More so incase of hatchbacks. Access can be inconvenient as well.
Still auto-geared cars can adopt this idea

9. Cycle wheels? You mean wheels with spoke ? Cars are evolved from the one having cycle like wheels. So you can guess.
Good point. Earlier cars had cycle like 'spoke' wheels. Wonder what was the compelling reason to switch over to the current design? As somebody pointed out, strength of the 'spoke' wheels can be compromised when the car is taken through rough roads?

10. Larger door = More difficult to open in congested areas. Loading won't be as easy as via hatchdoor.
Good point.

Last edited by jinojohnt : 11th January 2012 at 20:49.
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Old 11th January 2012, 20:55   #17
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Default re: Common 'Features' in cars that we need to 'live with'

I doubt if 'majority' of the cars in the US or UK have rear disc brakes. Sure, some of them will have them, but they won't be the 'for-the-masses' cars. Even in India you have some higher end cars with rear disc brakes.

So, technically it is possible, however I don't see how having all disc brakes is necessarily better for all cars.

In trying to position the light onto the dashboard you are not only restricting its output to a useless area (above seat level almost everything is already visible due to various other illuminations, within and outside the car), but also creating a problem for incorporating features such as airbags. Not to mention you won't find a good enough spot for the light in the dash. Better leave it where it is.

Let me also mention that while you can look over your shoulder onto a lane at a 45 degree angle, it's not so easy to look over your shoulder behind you. Don't even try that, just trust me on this one. And if you are so paranoid you can always get aftermarket mirrors (almost twice the length) or go for cameras all round.
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Old 11th January 2012, 21:11   #18
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Default re: Common 'Features' in cars that we need to 'live with'

My thoughts in bold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
So, technically it is possible, however I don't see how having all disc brakes is necessarily better for all cars.
Theoretically, 60% of 'stopping' is done by the front wheels, and only 40% by the rear wheels. But still I feel that disc brakes on rear can reduce the braking distance?

In trying to position the light onto the dashboard you are not only restricting its output to a useless area (above seat level almost everything is already visible due to various other illuminations, within and outside the car),
I feel the current position of cabin light also doesn't illuminate the floor (below seat level), especially at the back seat?

Let me also mention that while you can look over your shoulder onto a lane at a 45 degree angle, it's not so easy to look over your shoulder behind you.
I agree.
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Old 11th January 2012, 21:43   #19
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Default re: Common 'Features' in cars that we need to 'live with'

1.'I don't think a manufacturer would keep
smaller windows with less visibilty just to
keep the cabin temperature under control.'
I mistook your point actually.
Its more like function making way for form.
People today are ready to be cooped up at back for the shake of style. Interestingly the cars with larger rear windows are the outdate or odd looking cars. Just like 800 or Verito or Manza.

2. 'Just a change in position so that the cabin
light doesn't 'prick' the driver's eye.'
Agreed. Central positioning can be a better option.

3.'Vents can also be placed on the top of B-
pillar?'
Vents+ air channel+ blower : again it will intrude the driver/co-driver's headroom. Do check Innvoa's arrangement, you will understand my point.

4. 'But ABS also works better with disc brakes?'
I think front discs are more important for the functioning of ABS. Still 'more the better' !

5. 'Then we can have a long plain mirror that
curves at the sides for all round visibilty?'
Inner rear view mirror will never give the all round visibility. Thanks to the limited vision provided that rear glass of the car. It serves for the purpose of distance estimation. I mean the inner rear view mirror.

6. 'What is automatic headlight dimmer ?
A control unit that automatically dips the
headlight on sensing on-coming traffic'.
Good add on. Provided its a compulsion for all future and existing vehicles as well. No point in automatic dip initiation when the upcoming truck doesn't follow the rule and keeps the Head ON.

7. 'Ordinary antenna also has bad reception
during rains, right?'
I am not sure but the way wipers are positioned it mightnot help in getting good signal.

8.'Ok, but can we still expect some 'design
breakthrough?'
How about an optional glove box
Brio with its curved glove box generates good knee room though.
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Old 11th January 2012, 23:02   #20
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Default re: Common 'Features' in cars that we need to 'live with'

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinojohnt View Post
I was also initially thinking about that, but the problem is that the inside rear-view mirror would reflect this lamp, and cause irritation for the driver. Thanks to you any way, for putting some thought to it.
This is rather interesting. I am sure all your points have been covered in some or other car before. Some of your points need looking into especially in the areas structural strength. But the thought process is pretty diverse and unique. I think most engineers would have put some of or maybe all of your points on the drawing board but it is more complex that just a set of drawings.

I have one more point - Why not include a RPM meter that will tell how many RPMs the engine has run , for example , at 1000 rpm for 1 hour is equal to 60000 RPMS. same one hour in a racing scenario ~ 4500 RPM would equal to 270000 rpms. This is a clear indicator of the working life history of the engine. Just a thought.

Last edited by Catalyst_delhi : 11th January 2012 at 23:05. Reason: added last lines about my one more point
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Old 11th January 2012, 23:15   #21
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Default re: Common 'Features' in cars that we need to 'live with'

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinojohnt View Post
I have noticed some common 'features' in cars that we need to 'live with'. Any reasons for these, and isn't there a way out?

1. Rear Wind Screen


Really bad in current hatches. It should ideally be big enough that you don't require any assistance in parking. All 'modern' hatches have this issue, possibly to sell reverse parking sensors.

2. Cabin light

Center mounted cabin light lights up all the way upto the rear seat base area of my Alto. So, this is a good decision to place it where it currently is.

3. A/C vents
Because the roof is the hottest part of the car when parked in sunlight. Placing the A/C low down ensures that the A/C pipes are not heated up to start with. It also saves on heavy insulation costs & incorporating a larger compressor. An A/C vent placed on the dash functions as a defogger in budget hatches which lack this feature. The hot air from the a/c blower is felt all the way up to the hatch glass. Moreover, the vents facing the side (doors) help in defogging your door glass.

4. Rear Drum Brakes
This feature is simply not present IMHO because of the "Jack knife" towing that is practiced in India. If rear discs were there, there would've been a separate small caliper that holds on to the disc when the parking brake is engaged. Towing in such condition will be detrimental to the brakes as discs won't budge that easy. And disc brake repairs are costlier as compared to drums.
Antenna: Protruding antenna looks ugly.
The window quarter glass/ the roof can be used as an antenna. There are also stick on aftermarket options available to paste on glass. This part can surely be done away with.
I have answered some of your questions with the title highlighted in Bold.
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Old 11th January 2012, 23:29   #22
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For those who want footwell lighting, this is what my car looks like in the night. I got this done from a car acessories dealer for 1000 rupees. These are LED strips that illuminate the footwells. They look very bright but are subtle and sober.


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There is a small strip in the dashboard as well.
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Old 12th January 2012, 10:28   #23
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Default re: Common 'Features' in cars that we need to 'live with'

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
And if you are so paranoid you can always get aftermarket mirrors (almost twice the length) or go for cameras all round.
My Alto cannot accommodate longer 'inside rear-view mirror'. If the mirror is any longer, it would get into the path of sun visors.

Last edited by jinojohnt : 12th January 2012 at 10:31.
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Old 12th January 2012, 11:19   #24
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Default re: Common 'Features' in cars that we need to 'live with'

Just a reflection on 2 points.

Rear drums are simple and cheap.
Discs are expensive.
Rear brakes need a fraction of stopping power to generate the maximum amount of braking possible to be put out of the rear wheels of a forward moving car.
Discs in rear would seem to be overkill for the purpose, and are omitted.

Glove box in the middle would take away more space than one on the passenger side.
Legs bend, but adjusting your width may take a longer while.....:d
Plus, I dont think most Indian vehicles have a premium on space in the passenger knee area.
Accomodatable, i feel.
Im just talking about my experience with an 800, zen, santro and a fiesta.
It was only when my 6'4" brother sat in the back that the front seat in the santro was moved to max forward position, and my dad's knees still had about 2" gap from the open glovebox.

Last edited by mayankk : 12th January 2012 at 11:44.
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Old 12th January 2012, 11:25   #25
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Default re: Common 'Features' in cars that we need to 'live with'

My thoughts in bold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbokick View Post

3.'Vents can also be placed on the top of B-
pillar?'
Vents+ air channel+ blower : again it will intrude the driver/co-driver's headroom. Do check Innvoa's arrangement, you will understand my point.
I am assuming the Innova's second row a/c is placed on the center of the roof. I was thinking of an a/c vent placed just above the seatbelts on the B-pillar?

5. 'Then we can have a long plain mirror that
curves at the sides for all round visibilty?'
Inner rear view mirror will never give the all round visibility. Thanks to the limited vision provided that rear glass of the car. It serves for the purpose of distance estimation. I mean the inner rear view mirror.
Current 'inside rear view mirrors' let me see through the rear windscreen only. I was thinking of a design that lets me simultaneously see through rear windscreen and windows of the back doors?

8.'Ok, but can we still expect some 'design
breakthrough?'
How about an optional glove box
Brio with its curved glove box generates good knee room though.
Good point.
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Old 12th January 2012, 12:17   #26
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Default re: Common 'Features' in cars that we need to 'live with'

To me,the single most irritating common "feature" that I am forced to live with is this idiotic "beige" interior concept.

The same car sold abroad comes with lovely black leather upholstery and trim which I vastly prefer over beige, but here owing to this peculiar local fascination for blighted beige interiors, I have to live with this being the only option.
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Old 12th January 2012, 13:19   #27
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Default re: Common 'Features' in cars that we need to 'live with'

My thoughts in bold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustCause View Post
3. A/C vents
Because the roof is the hottest part of the car when parked in sunlight. Placing the A/C low down ensures that the A/C pipes are not heated up to start with. It also saves on heavy insulation costs & incorporating a larger compressor.
Good point. May be that's a reason why some cars have rear a/c vents on the floor (between the front seats) rather than on the car ceiling?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajanprash View Post
For those who want footwell lighting, this is what my car looks like in the night. I got this done from a car acessories dealer for 1000 rupees. These are LED strips that illuminate the footwells. They look very bright but are subtle and sober.
There is a small strip in the dashboard as well.
Looks good. Did you get this for show purpose or for illumination? Does it serve the purpose of a cabin light?
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Old 12th January 2012, 13:58   #28
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Default re: Common 'Features' in cars that we need to 'live with'

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
I doubt if 'majority' of the cars in the US or UK have rear disc brakes. Sure, some of them will have them, but they won't be the 'for-the-masses' cars. Even in India you have some higher end cars with rear disc brakes.

So, technically it is possible, however I don't see how having all disc brakes is necessarily better for all cars.
Most cars in western world have all four disc brakes, drum brakes are old design and don't have sufficient bite. All disc brakes is much better for cars and all suv/muv. Do drive a all disc car and feel for yourself, the braking is so much more confidence inspiring.

For example a hatchback in US, costing ~15k USD has all four Discs please check in edmunds.com, do let me know if you cannot find it and i can forward you the link. Only very small hatches for <13K USD do not have Disc/Disc combination.
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Old 12th January 2012, 16:37   #29
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Default re: Common 'Features' in cars that we need to 'live with'

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
Just a reflection on 2 points.

Glove box in the middle would take away more space than one on the passenger side.
In that case why can't we have a (removable) glove box that is incorporated inside the arm-rest for the driver.

Last edited by jinojohnt : 12th January 2012 at 16:47.
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Old 12th January 2012, 16:47   #30
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Default re: Common 'Features' in cars that we need to 'live with'

I would suggest all cars should have a driver information system.It will be good if they can display remaining liters of petrol(not the expected KM before emptying).This will help to get a real time FE and more over help to reduce the cheating by petrol pump guys.
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